Home | Community | Message Board


Everything Mushrooms
Please support our sponsors.

General Interest >> Political Discussion

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Jump to first unread post. Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]
OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/19/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
Religion of Peace (TM) on a roll in Russia
    #3091002 - 09/04/04 01:19 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

The mass murder of children revolts the human psyche. Herod sending his henchmen to massacre the infants of Bethlehem haunts the Gospels. Nothing in our time was crueler than what the Germans did to children during the Holocaust. Slaughtering the innocents violates a universal human taboo.

Or a nearly universal one. Those Muslims who preach Jihad against the West decided years ago that killing Jewish or Christian children is not only acceptable, but pleasing to their god when done by "martyrs."

It isn't politically correct to say this, of course. We're supposed to pretend that Islam is a "religion of peace." All right, then: It's time for Muslims to stand up for the once-noble, nearly lost traditions of their faith and condemn what Arab and Chechen terrorists and blasphemers did in the Russian town of Beslan.

If Muslim religious leaders around the world will not publicly condemn the taking of children as hostages and their subsequent slaughter ? if those "men of faith" will not issue a condemnation without reservations or caveats ? then no one need pretend any longer that all religions are equally sound and moral.

Islam has been a great and humane faith in the past. Now far too many of its adherents condone, actively or passively, the mass murder of school kids. Instead of condemnations of the Muslim "Jihadis" responsible for butchering more than 200 women and children in cold blood, we will hear spiteful counter-accusations about imaginary atrocities supposedly committed by Western militaries.

Well, the cold fact is that Western soldiers, whether Americans, Brits, Russians or Israelis, do not take hundreds of children hostage, then shoot them in cold blood while detonating bombs in their midst. The Muslim world can lie to itself, but we need lie no longer.

The tragedy in southern Russia occurred thousands of miles from the United States, but, in essence, that massacre happened next door. The parents, teachers and students kept for days without water or food in a sweltering school building before being butchered were our children, our sisters, our wives, our parents.

The mass hostage situation wasn't about Chechen rebels (and at least 10 Arabs) opposing the Russian government. It was a continuation of the universal struggle between good and evil. And there is no doubt which side is evil, scorned though the word may be by our own elite.

How can any human being with a shred of conscience dismiss what occurred in that school as anything less than evil?

The attack in Beslan wasn't about Russia's brutal incompetence in Chechnya ? as counter-productive as Moscow's grim heavy-handedness may have been. It was about religious bigotry so profound that the believer can hold a gun to a child's head, pull the trigger and term the act "divine justice."

We will hear complaints that the Russian special forces should have waited ? even after the terrorists began shooting children. Negotiations are the heroin of Westerners addicted to self-delusion. Who among us would have waited when he or she saw fleeing children cut down by automatic weapons? The urge to protect children is as primal as any impulse we ever feel.

Make no mistake: No blame attaches to the Russians for the massacre at that school. The guilt is entirely upon the Islamic extremists who have led the religion they claim to cherish into the realms of nightmare.

There will be repercussions. Having suffered the hijacking and destruction of two passenger jets, a deadly bombing at a Moscow subway station and a massacre in a primary school all in less than two weeks, the Kremlin will have learned to rue the day it imagined that there was anything to gain by opposing American efforts against terrorists, whether Osama bin Laden or Saddam Hussein.

As they inevitably do, the terrorists reminded the world of their heartless barbarism. Even if France manages to beg the release of its kidnapped journalists in Iraq, it has begun to sense its vulnerability. And all Europeans with a vestige of sense will recognize that the school seizure in Russia could easily repeat itself in Languedoc or Umbria, Bavaria or Kent.

An attack on children is an attack on all of humanity.

No matter what differences Western states discover to divide them, the terrorists will bring us together in the end. Their atrocities expose all wishful thinking for what it is.

A final thought: Did any of those protesters who came to Manhattan to denounce our liberation of 50 million Muslims stay an extra day to protest the massacre in Russia? Of course not.

The protesters no more care for dead Russian children than they care for dead Kurds or for the hundreds of thousands of Arabs that Saddam Hussein executed. Or for the ongoing Arab-Muslim slaughter of blacks in Sudan. Nothing's a crime to those protesters unless the deed was committed by America.

The butchery in Russia was a crime against humanity. In every respect. Was any war ever more necessary or just than the War on Terror?

And what will terror's apologists say when the killers come for their own children?

http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/opedcolumnists/28066.htm


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,723
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Religion of Peace (TM) on a roll in Russia [Re: Phred]
    #3091064 - 09/04/04 01:43 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

No matter what differences Western states discover to divide them, the terrorists will bring us together in the end. Their atrocities expose all wishful thinking for what it is.



A brilliantly written piece.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisibleretread
-=HasH=-
Registered: 07/14/04
Posts: 851
Re: Religion of Peace (TM) on a roll in Russia [Re: Phred]
    #3091085 - 09/04/04 01:51 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Excellent piece. I'm wondering why it is that silversoul7 and others who insist it's our role supporting those damn Jews in their Stolen Land, and deciding to oust SAddam, haven't addressed the issues of Arabs attacking Russia (who, it seems to me, was against the Iraq war?) or France (Same thing). Maybe the religion of peace is liberal claptrap horseshit?


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineJesusChrist
Son Of God
Registered: 02/19/04
Posts: 1,459
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
Re: Religion of Peace (TM) on a roll in Russia [Re: Phred]
    #3091097 - 09/04/04 01:55 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Great article. I would hate to be on the side of tyrants and baby killers. I will side with freedom and liberty everytime.


--------------------
Tastes just like chicken


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,733
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 3 months, 30 days
Re: Religion of Peace (TM) on a roll in Russia [Re: JesusChrist]
    #3091116 - 09/04/04 01:59 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

500,000 children dead by sanctions...US say it is a price worth paying. Sounds like the sort of deal you do with Satan to me.


--------------------
Always Smi2le


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisibleretread
-=HasH=-
Registered: 07/14/04
Posts: 851
Re: Religion of Peace (TM) on a roll in Russia [Re: GazzBut]
    #3091169 - 09/04/04 02:09 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Hey wow, ignoring the topic, using the tactic of "BUT UR WERSE U KILT PPL TOO" to ignore a tradegy, it's almost like the author predicted your feebleminded response! Good job!
*puts your gold star on the wall for today*


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineAncalagon
AgnosticLibertarian

Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1,364
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
Re: Religion of Peace (TM) on a roll in Russia [Re: retread]
    #3091219 - 09/04/04 02:27 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Excellent piece. I'm wondering why it is that silversoul7 and others who insist it's our role supporting those damn Jews in their Stolen Land, and deciding to oust SAddam, haven't addressed the issues of Arabs attacking Russia (who, it seems to me, was against the Iraq war?) or France (Same thing). Maybe the religion of peace is liberal claptrap horseshit?



You really don't believe the numerous acts of intervention in the Muslim world by the United States over the past half-century are not a significant(I believe the main..) reason for the current situation? You don't believe poor, desperate Iranians are furious against the United States for its overthrow(via the CIA) of the Iranian Government in 1953 and following installation of the tyrannical Shah? You don't believe poor, desperate Saudi Arabians are furious against the United States for its continued support of the detested Saudi Royal Family? You don't believe that Muslims throughout the region deplore Americas overwhelming support of Israel? You sincerely think half a century of military adventurism in a region has left us with zero enemies? If so, I have a bridge to sell you.

"But even if you're right, we couldn't just pack up and leave after September 11th, that would be a gross sign of weakness..." I'm sure that's what some of you think in response to those of us expousing the wise non-interventionist policies of Jefferson and Washington. In response I would say: better that you do and keep the moral high ground. This is a gross simplification for purposes of alacrity, but if in response to September 11th we ended our programs of foreign aid, pulled our troops out of the region, stopped giving legitimacy to the deletarious policies of the UN, we would leave ourselves in an absolutely invincible position as far as both morality and world support goes. We could secure our borders and if, for whatever reasons, Islamic terrorists did still attempt to harm us, there would be no reason anyone could give for us not to absolutely obliterate them.

Edit - Which is not to say we shouldn't have used any military force in response to 9-11.


--------------------
?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'


Edited by Ancalagon (09/04/04 02:28 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineJesusChrist
Son Of God
Registered: 02/19/04
Posts: 1,459
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
Re: Religion of Peace (TM) on a roll in Russia [Re: Ancalagon]
    #3091285 - 09/04/04 02:42 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

You make some great points. In defense of American policy, the Cold War made it more complicated. We couldn't just fight for freedom and liberty, but we had to fight against communist expansion. It made the issue of moral clarity a lot more difficult and subjective, and we made many mistakes.

And the Shah was probably more tolerant than the Iranian government today. One of the reason's he was ousted by the Clerics was because he was rushing towards modernization and giving rights to women. That shit wasn't popular in a conservative Islamic society. The Shaw gave people more freedom and liberty than the current regime. They would be better off today had he stayed in power, and the world would be a safer place. At least in my opinion.

I agree with the basic tennants of your foriegn policy though. We do need to cut aid to other governments and stop playing favorites. If we stopped giving aid to Israel, it could only help our world standing.


--------------------
Tastes just like chicken


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleVvellum
Stranger

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
Re: Religion of Peace (TM) on a roll in Russia [Re: Phred]
    #3091444 - 09/04/04 03:27 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

The mass hostage situation wasn't about Chechen rebels (and at least 10 Arabs) opposing the Russian government. It was a continuation of the universal struggle between good and evil.




universal struggle between good and evil? Nice use of simplistic fairy tale language there.

um, no. This situtation is primarily about the political struggle of Chechen rebels struggling for independence from Russia and Russia's response. To say that this ongoing conflict is primarily religious to say that the past struggles of the IRA/Northern Ireland against English rule in their land was primarily a conflict between Catholics and Protestants - this is not true even though religion played a large role. The core of these problems lay in political conflict between those who are loyal to the State and those who wish to form their own independent state. To simplify this situation as just beling a religious thing, is an error. It seems as though the Islamists like al queda are merely cheerleaders for the Muslim Chechians.

and hey, what about the thousands of Chechian men, women, and children the Russian troops have killed throughout the years? Interesting how people like yourself say nothing of that.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinedeafpanda
Stranger
Registered: 05/07/04
Posts: 984
Loc: Inguland
Last seen: 5 years, 1 month
Re: Religion of Peace (TM) on a roll in Russia [Re: Ancalagon]
    #3091456 - 09/04/04 03:30 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Thanks for a bit of sanity.

The hyporcisy is stinking sometimes when terrorism comes up.

"An attack on children is an attack on all humanity"

Yes it is, whether done by islamic terrorists or russian or israeli soldiers.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlineivi
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 9,083
Last seen: 21 days, 7 hours
Re: Religion of Peace (TM) on a roll in Russia [Re: Phred]
    #3091463 - 09/04/04 03:32 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

deaths of the innocent will bring to nothing else than more deaths of the innocent. And it has nothing to do with religion, race or whatsoever!
The whole world kept ignoring what's going on in Chechnya probably to stay in a politically comfortable position and good diplomatic relations with Russia (suck up, suck up, the world still fears the Russian bear, so do I). We can only blame ourselves for what happened in Beslan because we didn't have the balls to stop Russian terror in Chechnya.





--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineMushmonkey
shiftlesslayabout
 User Gallery

Registered: 09/26/03
Posts: 10,378
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months
Re: Religion of Peace (TM) on a roll in Russia [Re: GazzBut]
    #3091489 - 09/04/04 03:40 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

500,000 children dead by sanctions...US say it is a price worth paying. Sounds like the sort of deal you do with Satan to me.




Which country are you talking about? Iraq?

You can't blame sanctions for children dying in Iraq when its bloated dictator was still building palaces and spending gobs of cash on weapons. It seems pretty clear to me that he didn't give two shits about his people dying.

Sanctions don't kill children, sanctions against morally corrupt evil dictators who refuse to provide any aid for their people while they are still able to draw enormous amounts of money from them kill children.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineBaby_Hitler
Errorist
 User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/06/02
Posts: 22,840
Loc: To the limit!
Last seen: 2 months, 1 day
Re: Religion of Peace (TM) on a roll in Russia [Re: Ancalagon]
    #3091499 - 09/04/04 03:43 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

You really don't believe the numerous acts of intervention in the Muslim world by the United States over the past half-century are not a significant(I believe the main..) reason for the current situation?




I believe the current situation is approximately attributable to 20% western intervention 80% stupid middle eastern culture.

They need a new culture. Th one they've had for the last 8,000 years just isn't going to do any more.


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: Religion of Peace (TM) on a roll in Russia [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #3091534 - 09/04/04 03:53 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

You are right (not sure about the exact percentages though). A ham handed foreign policy executed among a people of stone age philosophy with access to 21st century technology doesn't make for a good mix.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/19/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
Re: Religion of Peace (TM) on a roll in Russia [Re: ivi]
    #3091678 - 09/04/04 04:40 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

ivi, it seems you've quoted someone other than myself or the author of the post I cut and pasted. Did you mean to reply to my post?

If you didn't, who was it you meant to reply to? If you did, please correct your quote. Thank you.


pinky


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlined33p
Welcome to Violence

Registered: 07/12/03
Posts: 5,381
Loc: the shores of Tripoli
Last seen: 3 years, 6 months
Re: Religion of Peace (TM) on a roll in Russia [Re: deafpanda]
    #3091706 - 09/04/04 04:51 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

deafpanda said:
Thanks for a bit of sanity.

The hyporcisy is stinking sometimes when terrorism comes up.

"An attack on children is an attack on all humanity"

Yes it is, whether done by islamic terrorists or russian or israeli soldiers.




You're quite right but what you need to realize is that Russian and Israeli soldiers do not regularly target children but islamic extremists do.


--------------------
I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlineivi
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 9,083
Last seen: 21 days, 7 hours
Re: Religion of Peace (TM) on a roll in Russia [Re: Phred]
    #3091707 - 09/04/04 04:52 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

It wasn't an answer to anyone in particular :smirk:
I quoted myself from the Chechnya: Russia's War on Islam thread...  :blush:

Peace!


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisibleretread
-=HasH=-
Registered: 07/14/04
Posts: 851
Re: Religion of Peace (TM) on a roll in Russia [Re: Ancalagon]
    #3091711 - 09/04/04 04:52 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Ancalagon said:
You really don't believe the numerous acts of intervention in the Muslim world by the United States over the past half-century are not a significant(I believe the main..) reason for the current situation?




If you are citing the "current situation" as solely the topic of this post, that being the numerous arab attacks on russians, then no, of course I don't. Russia was against the Iraq war, and I'm not sure how they respond to Zionism, but certainly not as pro-zionist as we are. The arab world has been given a demonostration of how to work for their peaceful goals, and that method is terrorism. Now they'll be using it everywhere. Every action is preceded by a "cause", it's just that these fucking shithole sand-flea camel-fuckers use any justification as cause to kill innocent people.
"You support the existance of a legally authorized body of land given to the Jews by the British, We'll kill you!"
"You support the removal from power of a bloodthirsty tyrant, we'll kill you"
"You won't allow any children in your schools to wear any sort of head garment, well thats clearly against our peacefulreligion?'s theory of men owning women, we'll kill some innocents"
"You won't give us more free land, we'll kill people"
That is how this breed of animal thinks.
Quote:


In response I would say: better that you do and keep the moral high ground. This is a gross simplification for purposes of alacrity, but if in response to September 11th we ended our programs of foreign aid, pulled our troops out of the region, stopped giving legitimacy to the deletarious policies of the UN, we would leave ourselves in an absolutely invincible position as far as both morality and world support goes.




Sure, we could be just like Russia and France and totally cave into the terrorist. It's not like RUSSIA has been attacked by these depraved fuckballs, it's not like FRENCH journalists are having their freedoms taken away! No matter WHAT we do, unless it's totally giving in to their demands, they'll always find some reason to hate us. If it isn't supporting Israel, it's the issue that we don't allow camelfuckers t owear their Burkahs in their drivers license pictures. No matter what we do, they'll hate us and want to destroy us. So lets finish the job and destroy them.
Quote:


We could secure our borders and if, for whatever reasons, Islamic terrorists did still attempt to harm us, there would be no reason anyone could give for us not to absolutely obliterate them.




Just as jihadists will always want the overthrow of any non-Islam government, the lefties will always criticize American actions to defend herself. Geez, silversoul7 (a somewhat 'moderate' lefty) is questioning our actions in AFGHANISTAN. No matter what we do, the Arabs will hate us, and no matter what we do in responce to their attacks, we'll always have some critics. This is the singular reason that I won't be upset if Bush wins (as opposed to Kerry winning). Bush won't give a fuck what France thinks of us, he'll do what needs to be done to kick some friggin terrorist ass.
Quote:


Edit - Which is not to say we shouldn't have used any military force
in response to 9-11.



:thumbup:


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisibleretread
-=HasH=-
Registered: 07/14/04
Posts: 851
Re: Religion of Peace (TM) on a roll in Russia [Re: deafpanda]
    #3091723 - 09/04/04 04:56 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

deafpanda said:
Thanks for a bit of sanity.

The hyporcisy is stinking sometimes when terrorism comes up.

"An attack on children is an attack on all humanity"

Yes it is, whether done by islamic terrorists or russian or israeli soldiers.




Apparently I'm not as familar with my history as you are. Could you show me a time that Israeli or Russian troops intentionally targeted a school filled with young children, and then cut them down in machine gun fire?


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineZahid
Stranger
Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 4,779
Last seen: 12 years, 2 months
Re: Religion of Peace (TM) on a roll in Russia [Re: Phred]
    #3091760 - 09/04/04 05:11 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I bet Ed1 was your puppet.  :rolleyes:


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Jump to top. Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]

General Interest >> Political Discussion

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Chechnya: Russia's War Against Muslims
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 all )
Zahid 7,184 154 09/05/04 02:56 PM
by Zahid
* Russia Trying To Claim Ownership of the Arctic Ocean Floor and its Oil
( 1 2 3 4 all )
DiploidM 4,728 78 08/15/07 05:03 PM
by Seuss
* Islamic plague destroying Russia Luddite 547 1 11/29/06 11:21 AM
by Luddite
* Chechens as threat to established rules Zahid 583 10 09/06/04 12:52 PM
by Great_Satan
* Chechen Foreign Minister explains about Litvenenko The_Red_Crayon 328 0 12/14/06 10:50 AM
by The_Red_Crayon
* Islamic leader hails Chechen attack Great_Satan 440 4 09/08/04 09:04 PM
by Tao
* so russia is invading a country...?
( 1 2 3 4 ... 16 17 all )
truekimbo2 13,222 326 08/24/08 09:36 AM
by Bridgeburner
* "Medvedev: Russia to deploy missiles near Poland."So Russia gets balls after election result..... buckwheat 767 15 11/07/08 07:54 PM
by ScavengerType

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Prisoner#1, Enlil
1,658 topic views. 2 members, 4 guests and 12 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Toggle Favorite | Print Topic | Stats ]
Search this thread:
World Seed Supply
Please support our sponsors.

Copyright 1997-2016 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.082 seconds spending 0.003 seconds on 16 queries.