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OfflineHagbardCeline
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Re: Chechnya: Russia's War Against Muslims [Re: Phluck]
    #3086917 - 09/03/04 10:41 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Understanding why they're doing it doesn't validate them. I understand that pedophiles rape kids because for some reason, their brains are wired so that they find them attractive. I understand that muggers steal from other people because they're that desperate for money. It doesn't mean I agree with or condone anything they're doing.

Just because the terrorists are taking extreme, ignorant, and vile measures to prove their points doesn't do anything to invalidate their causes. If some psychotic asshole started blowing up civilians in the name of legalizing marijuana, would that mean that we shouldn't legalize marijuana, because that would be validating terrorism?

There are also calm and rational people who are opposed to the same things the terrorists are. I don't exactly agree with them; I'm sure a lot of what they want is pretty unreasonable, but some of the points are valid to a degree.





Well put, except for "Just because the terrorists are taking extreme, ignorant, and vile measures to prove their points doesn't do anything to invalidate their causes." Because even though we may understand why they are doing these things, doing them does infact invalidate their cause. Though their cause may have been legitimate, the measures they employ negate what they're attempting to accomplish.


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I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine

Edited by HagbardCeline (09/03/04 10:53 AM)

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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Chechnya: Russia's War Against Muslims [Re: Phluck]
    #3086981 - 09/03/04 11:00 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

and I'm sure you took a poll.




basically just an observation.

Quote:

If they're only targeting militants, they've certainly got pretty shitty aim, and their efforts seem to be doing dick all to actually curb attacks.




then again they aren't American soldiers. The palastinians know what Isreal does when someone is responsible for an Isreali homocide bombing (House goes bye-bye) it shouldn't come as a surprise to those people what could happen if they harbor them.

Quote:

Believing in fairy tales about a man nailed to a cross is just as stupid, and those ones have been used to justify torture, murder, and all sorts of opression in the past. It's not the religion so much as the fact that we live in a part of the world where there's more economic and political stability.




I have no idea why you brought up Christianity as a retort, was that supposed to have an effect on me? Religion is what drives these fucktards and Religion, hopefully, will destroy them.

It is exactly the religion, these people (and i'm talking about the radicals as I always do) choose to follow a religion that offers nothing unless others are eliminated. Thier politics suck because they base them off of their loopy religion. It's a circle that they refuse to adapt.


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America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Chechnya: Russia's War Against Muslims [Re: Innvertigo]
    #3087080 - 09/03/04 11:20 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

"basically just an observation."

Observation of what? The odd group of protesting Palestinians on the news, and you feel you've got enough info to make a judgment on the overall opinion of a country?

"The palastinians know what Isreal does when someone is responsible for an Isreali homocide bombing (House goes bye-bye) it shouldn't come as a surprise to those people what could happen if they harbor them."

They aren't going after houses specific to people harbouring terrorists, they're tearing down houses that are "built without a permit", on what they say is their land. If palestine were richer, and more organized, you'd see something more like conventional warfare, and you do see plenty of people attacking the Israeli soldiers as it is. People are only going to throw so many molotov cocktails and stones before they start going to more extreme measures to fight back. It's pretty hard to say that one side is more morally correct here without tipping the scales with some kind of external bias.

"Thier politics suck because they base them off of their loopy religion. It's a circle that they refuse to adapt. "

I could just as easily say the same thing about the Republicans. The party is filled with hardcore Christians, and a big part of the faith is believing that seeking redemption from Jesus is the only true way to avoid burning in the fires of hell, and that's just as kooky as anything.


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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Chechnya: Russia's War Against Muslims [Re: Phluck]
    #3087123 - 09/03/04 11:29 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Observation of what? The odd group of protesting Palestinians on the news, and you feel you've got enough info to make a judgment on the overall opinion of a country?




yeah, that's it.

Quote:

It's pretty hard to say that one side is more morally correct here without tipping the scales with some kind of external bias.




No it's quite easy if you want to see it. Which side straps bombs to their bodies and goes into malls?

Quote:

I could just as easily say the same thing about the Republicans. The party is filled with hardcore Christians, and a big part of the faith is believing that seeking redemption from Jesus is the only true way to avoid burning in the fires of hell, and that's just as kooky as anything.




Thank God i'm not a Republican. Saying one thing is all fine and dandy if you have no proof of that really happening. Unfortunatly for you, muslims do everything for allah. I don't think they even scratch their nuts without oking it with their religious leaders.


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America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Chechnya: Russia's War Against Muslims [Re: Innvertigo]
    #3087149 - 09/03/04 11:36 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

"No it's quite easy if you want to see it. Which side straps bombs to their bodies and goes into malls?"

And which side demolishes the houses of innocent civilians and starts gunfights in crowded city streets? It's easy to pick one side as the evil one, if you ignore the atrocities of the other.


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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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OfflineParsifal
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Re: Chechnya: Russia's War Against Muslims [Re: Zahid]
    #3087694 - 09/03/04 01:55 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)


Some cultures & religion do not evolve with time...

Islam itself is not "bad" as any other religion, but it seems to be obsolete for this century.

The Chechen rebels, are one of greatest wariors in present time...as they were defending their homeland they were doing the same thing you would do, if someone would attack you.

But many people were killed, homes destroyed...what is left to those who survived the killing of Rusian army, and lost their familys?

Teeth for a teeth...eye for an eye is very old rule.

And now, we have pictures of dead children, who only went to the scool for the first day...they are really innocent victims as Chechen children were too.

For example: if islamic "wariors" are only response to the western capitalism and russian domination, then why they doing the genocide in Sudan over non arabic tribe (Nuba`s)

(Nuba`s were really peaceful and always smiling people, who lived in peace until islamic invaders came in. They were living cultural treasure... only some of them are left now...)

By nature Nubas, are not problem...but it seems that some "strains" of Islam are, and they are many of them...


So if the "world leaders", will not find better weapon against mainly Islamic terrorism other then helicopters, tanks... we gonna keep looking on WERY BAD scenes on news in future, or if we are unlucky it can happen everyone...everywhere


Keep spreading Peace





:frown:

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OfflineZahid
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Re: Chechnya: Russia's War Against Muslims [Re: Innvertigo]
    #3087815 - 09/03/04 02:21 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Innvertigo said:
but I bet you understand their cause.




Thanks for putting words in my mouth. :finger: Your bigotry is getting pretty boring.

The animals that invaded that school were also mostly Arabs, likely madmen like Abu Musab al-Zarqawi and the Chechen mujahideen are just as upset as anyone would be over this as now support for Russian occupation in Chechnya is shooting up among Russians.


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OfflineZahid
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Re: Chechnya: Russia's War Against Muslims [Re: Parsifal]
    #3087885 - 09/03/04 02:38 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Some cultures & religion do not evolve with time...

Islam itself is not "bad" as any other religion, but it seems to be obsolete for this century.


That's because Islam is being robbed of its dignity in every corner of the globe. It's not obsolete, it's the religion of Allah Almighty.

The Chechen rebels, are one of greatest wariors in present time...as they were defending their homeland they were doing the same thing you would do, if someone would attack you.

I agree. The Chechen mujahideen are hereos in this world, but they are branded as terrorists by every reach of the planet simply because they are Muslims.

But many people were killed, homes destroyed...what is left to those who survived the killing of Rusian army, and lost their familys?

Teeth for a teeth...eye for an eye is very old rule.


Few people are aware of the tyranny of Russia.

And now, we have pictures of dead children, who only went to the scool for the first day...they are really innocent victims as Chechen children were too.

The Ameer of Chechnya's Mujahideen Resistance officially called these terrorists 'Apostates of Islam, and if caught should be killed' nothing that they killed children, who are considered Muslims under Shariah as the Prophet has said 'Every child, male and female, is in natural submission to the will of Allah In Islam, as Muslims. They have not reflected the nature of their parents, so they are Muslims'

For example: if islamic "wariors" are only response to the western capitalism and russian domination, then why they doing the genocide in Sudan over non arabic tribe (Nuba`s)

(Nuba`s were really peaceful and always smiling people, who lived in peace until islamic invaders came in. They were living cultural treasure... only some of them are left now...)

By nature Nubas, are not problem...but it seems that some "strains" of Islam are, and they are many of them...


So if the "world leaders", will not find better weapon against mainly Islamic terrorism other then helicopters, tanks... we gonna keep looking on WERY BAD scenes on news in future, or if we are unlucky it can happen everyone...everywhere


What's happening in Sudan is a civil war between Muslims, although the Arab Janjaweed is the real enemy and transgressor here. The Black Muslims in the south have been taking up arms against the genocidal Janjaweed in the name of Allah. Few peole understand that sometimes WAR is the only option. When the enemy is killing your people while the world ignores it, your only option is to pick up a gun and fight in my opinion.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Chechnya: Russia's War Against Muslims [Re: Zahid]
    #3088152 - 09/03/04 04:00 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

You know, it used to be you could make a decent post without resorting to calling people bigots and racists.

Too bad you lost that ability.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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OfflineNorthernsoul
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Re: Chechnya: Russia's War Against Muslims [Re: Zahid]
    #3088211 - 09/03/04 04:14 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

America should really help out over there. My heart totaly goies out to them, and it really blew me away when I found out that they stormed the place and seeing all those kids dead.
We get so caught upin out tiny little problems everyday, and I think this is a good wake-up call about what could happen anywhere in the world, not just in Russia. Nobody is safe from this stuff.

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OfflineNorthernsoul
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Re: Chechnya: Russia's War Against Muslims [Re: Zahid]
    #3088226 - 09/03/04 04:18 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Oh, and about your post, I actually prefer more non-biased opinions about the whole thing. Preferably from someone who isnt Islamic, Russian, American, or Chetchnian. You get way too much bias from people with these nationalities when it comes to this story.

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OfflineZahid
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Re: Chechnya: Russia's War Against Muslims [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #3088233 - 09/03/04 04:20 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

I'm calling Innvertigo a bigot - well, the guy thinks I'm a murderer for crying out loud, I think there's some merit in that.


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Chechnya: Russia's War Against Muslims [Re: Zahid]
    #3088551 - 09/03/04 05:51 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

I'm calling Innvertigo a bigot - well, the guy thinks I'm a murderer for crying out loud, I think there's some merit in that.




What? You have your headress on too tight. I said your religion murders, where did I ever say YOU killed someone. Quit your whining and get your head out of the sand. I don't think every arab, palastinian, etc. are murderers but unfortunatly for you many and I'd say from the looks of it a majority of those in the middle east see no problem in the killing. If they did they would be out in the streets protesting what they're doing to your "god" instead of blaming all their problems on the west. How often do you see them blaming others for their problems? They need a mirror.

I've become more and more angry at what these groups are doing to the world, just as I imagine you feel towards the west.


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America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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OfflineZahid
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Re: Chechnya: Russia's War Against Muslims [Re: Innvertigo]
    #3088564 - 09/03/04 05:54 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

You associate me with murderers, and people who kill innocent people in the name of Islam are not Muslims as those actions are considered Kufr.


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Chechnya: Russia's War Against Muslims [Re: Zahid]
    #3088601 - 09/03/04 06:05 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

You associate me with murderers, and people who kill innocent people in the name of Islam are not Muslims as those actions are considered Kufr.




I associate your religion and just because you may not like these people you tend to be in the minority and don't live in the middle east, I wonder what would happen to you if you spoke out while living there?


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America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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OfflineZahid
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Re: Chechnya: Russia's War Against Muslims [Re: Innvertigo]
    #3088706 - 09/03/04 06:23 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

If you associate Muslims killing children with the teachings of Muhammad, then associate Catholics molesting children with Christ's teachings while your at it.. but don't stop there, associate the tyranny of Marxism with Atheism since you're into generalizations.

Evil people exist in every wing of ideology and theology.


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Chechnya: Russia's War Against Muslims [Re: Zahid]
    #3088733 - 09/03/04 06:29 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

If you associate Muslims killing children with the teachings of Muhammad, then associate Catholics molesting children with Christ's teachings while your at it




Sorry, nice try. The last I heard the Catholics (which I have no love for) didn't strap a bomb to their just and seek for 72 virgins. The difference is is that the radical muslims do it in the nname of "allah" and are backed by their society. I'm sure when a preist is plunging his dick in some kid he does scream in the name of God, nor does society welcome it as liberating.

Quote:

associate the tyranny of Marxism with Atheism since you're into generalizations.




no thanks, I'd rather rail against the radical muslims, someone needs to since noone is really doing it in the middle east.

Quote:

Evil people exist in every wing of ideology and theology.




Very true, unfortunatly those ideologies and theologies don't tend to suppport murdering.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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OfflineZahid
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Re: Chechnya: Russia's War Against Muslims [Re: Innvertigo]
    #3088803 - 09/03/04 06:43 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

You = Hate Muslims, every last one of them.  :confused:

There is NOTHING is Islam that supports killing innocent people.


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Chechnya: Russia's War Against Muslims [Re: Zahid]
    #3088813 - 09/03/04 06:45 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

HA HA...just the dumb ones.

and you say I see no gray area. sheesh.

No I don't hate anyone actually, I know you want me to but i don't hate like the radical muslims do. I love honest muslims ans I do honest christians.


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America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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OfflineZahid
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Re: Chechnya: Russia's War Against Muslims [Re: Innvertigo]
    #3088824 - 09/03/04 06:47 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

No, you hate Muslims. It wouldn't matter what kind of Muslim you came accross, you would belittle them for the actions of terrorists. Sorry.


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