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Re: Undercover at the peace conference [Re: TheOneYouKnow]
    #2401962 -

Mabus, my friend, a few points

1. Ashcroft cannot make laws. Legislatures make laws and courts interpret them. Courts also test them against the constitution. The Attorny General does not make laws. Ashcroft is an asshole but the Patriot Act was overwhelmingly passed by the legislature, upheld by the Supreme Court and supported by a great majority of the population. This, however has nothing to do with the cases you are citing. Which brings me to my next point.
2. The police are absolutely allowed to stake out bar parking lots. IF the owner lets them. They can also park across the street and bust fucked up drivers. The arrests will stick. They can also stake out bars and observe and bust drug buys. They have always been able to do this. A cop sitting there and waiting for a drunk to leave to radio his partners is problematic, but not for the reasons you think:
Defense attorney: You observed my client leaving the bar in an obviously inebriated condition, is that correct?
Officer: That's correct.
Def atty: And you observed getting into his car with his keys?
Off: That's correct
Def atty: And you observed him driving his vehicle out into the street?
Off: That's correct.
Def atty: And you were there in your official capacity as a law enforcement officer?
Off: Yes.
Def atty: And you did nothing to prevent my client from driving away, is that correct?
Off: Yes.
Your honor, at this point I would like to call upon the district Attorney's office to charge this officer as an accessory and I would like to have the charges against my client be dropped on the grounds that he knew an officer was present and relied on him to to use his judgement to prevent my client from endangering himself and others.
A word of advice. If you are contemplating any illegal activities, don't broadcast it. Don't count on rules of evidence to get you off. They will still arrest you and you will have to hire a lawyer. Even if you win, you will have lost. And you might not win.


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Re: Undercover at the peace conference [Re: Evolving]
    #2402011 -

Evolving , friend, I have a few points for you.
I asked you two questions.

The first was "Is there any set of circumstances under which you could see the value of preventive law enforcement activities as opposed to post fact investigation of crimes already committed?" You gave no answer.

The second was in regard to police states and I asked you to name one other nation that was such a bastion of freedom


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Re: Undercover at the peace conference [Re: TheOneYouKnow]
    #2402028 -

The second was "just what example of freedom would you hold up for us here. France, Germany, Japan, Ecuador?" Since your answer was just a proposal for some constitutional amendments I take it that there is no freer state in your opinion. Thus, since we are a police state, all nations are police states.


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Re: Undercover at the peace conference [Re: Evolving]
    #2402069 -

And another thing. Don't break up my paragraphs when you quote them. My points often actually cover several sentences. Most people without A.D.D. can follow them.


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Re: Undercover at the peace conference [Re: zappaisgod]
    #2402423 -

Go to the first page of the forum and read the sticky post at the top titled "Political Forum Rules". Follow them.

Posters get one "freebie" warning for violating the rules of the forum. For you, this is that warning. Next time the Admins will be notified.

pinky


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Re: Undercover at the peace conference [Re: Phred]
    #2402489 -

Was it the A.D.D. remark?


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Re: Undercover at the peace conference [Re: TheOneYouKnow]
    #2403398 -

TheOneYouKnow said:
these peace-niks


This guy can even make up derogatory terms for people just out to have peace in the world.

In the immortal words of Charlie Brown, "Good Grief".


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YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH ANY GIVEN DRUG ISN'T THE DEFINITIVE MEASURE OF THE DRUGS EFFECTS.

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Re: Undercover at the peace conference [Re: Ekstaza]
    #2403409 -

Quote:
This guy can even make up derogatory terms for people just out to have peace in the world.


I first heard that term in the lates 60's, early 70's. No-one here made it up.

Good grief is right.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: Undercover at the peace conference [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2403441 -

Thanks for the correction.

And so:
TheOneYouKnow even uses derogatory terms for people just out to have peace in the world.


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YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH ANY GIVEN DRUG ISN'T THE DEFINITIVE MEASURE OF THE DRUGS EFFECTS.

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Re: Undercover at the peace conference [Re: TheOneYouKnow]
    #2403476 -

TheOneYouKnow said:
silversoul7 said:
Attending a peace rally is one thing. Using tax-payer dollars to spy on the protesters is another.


So do you think that uniformed policemen shouldn't be there either?


It's alright if uniformed officers are there to keep the peace. It's when you're going undercover to spy on the protesters when you have no probable cause that it becomes a problem.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: Undercover at the peace conference [Re: Ekstaza]
    #2403477 -

Now that I can't argue with.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: Undercover at the peace conference [Re: silversoul7]
    #2407677 -

silversoul7 said:
TheOneYouKnow said:
silversoul7 said:
Attending a peace rally is one thing. Using tax-payer dollars to spy on the protesters is another.


So do you think that uniformed policemen shouldn't be there either?


It's alright if uniformed officers are there to keep the peace. It's when you're going undercover to spy on the protesters when you have no probable cause that it becomes a problem.



See, you can't spy on an open event. If I am attending as a law enforcement officer, I'm there for one reason, to keep the peace. If I am in uniform, or out of uniform, my response to certain actions will be the same.

If I asked the majority of you how you knew that peaceful protestors were just that, you'd probably say "because I know some of them". Did you "spy" on them? No, you met them, discussed ideas, and that was that. These police aren't tryign to encourage people to do illegal acts so that they can be arrested, they are simply present.

Of course, in the end, its the aliens + the CIA that we really ahve to worry about, watch an X-files sometime! *dons alum foil hat*

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