Home | Community | Message Board
You are not signed in.
Sign In New Account
Forum Index Search Posts Trusted Vendors Highlights Galleries FAQ User List Chat Store Random Growery

Sporeworks
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.

Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Mushroom Cultivation
Threaded Mode Threaded  Previous topic Previous  View all topics Index  Next topic Next 

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Mushroom-Hut Liquid Cultures   MagicBag.co All-In-One Bags That Don't Suck   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   North Spore Bulk Substrate   Sporeworks.EU Spores for European Microscopy   Myyco.com Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale   Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1 | 2  [ show all ]
Some of these posts are very old and might contain outdated information. You may wish to search for newer posts instead.
Agar ;)
    #3064508 -

So yeah... I'm checking out agar. But it's hard to find information aside of the teks that actually show you how to do it. It's really hard to find information on why you do it. I gathered that you can shoot a little bit of a syringe on an agar plate, let it grow, then cut that plate into many pieces, inoculation other agar plates with the original one. Then end up inocing rye jars with all of those plates. So I can see how it makes your syringe go a lot further. Just checking if I have all of that understood correctly? Also, how long can I store an agar plate that has myc grown all over it before I can no longer use it to grow? I'm sure it will be an estimate as no one can be sure. Thanks guys!


--------------------
Everything I say on this board is a lie.

Eat more string cheese. It's good for you.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Agar ;) [Re: SCIOpenEyedDream]
    #3064550 -

http://www.shroomery.org/index/par/3315

I have a couple of plates in my fridge for more than 2 years...


--------------------
California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Agar ;) [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #3064600 -

2 years? Wow... I see the benefit over syringes now. While I wait for colonizing (waiting sucks ;\ ) I'll have to read up on my Agar. Thanks again to this amazing forum and everyone on it!


--------------------
Everything I say on this board is a lie.

Eat more string cheese. It's good for you.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Agar ;) [Re: SCIOpenEyedDream]
    #3064661 -

syringes can last for a few years as well, the fresher the better but none the less... I gifted a friend of mine with a dozen or so that were being stored in a shed for a couple of years, he grew some out and said they lost very little viability

Agar is best suited for obtaiing a pure culture, I normaly use it for questionable prints and wild prints.


--------------------
California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Agar ;) [Re: SCIOpenEyedDream]
    #3064664 -

I'd suggest using a liquid media and making myc syringes. It's basically the same thing but you leave out the agar in the recipe. So for say MEA were you have malt and agar you just make malt water and inject a few spores into that. The myc will grow in a few weeks and youll see it then you can just take a syringe and suck it up. You put new water in the syringe before doing it and squirt the water in then suck the myc out and then you can just keep that jar of myc and use that for a LONG time, 100's of innoculations. Liquid cultures are easier to deal with then agar as well, no messing with plates and pouring and solidifying and cutting wedges and such. I used to use plates that way but now I've moved on.

Also a benifit of starting with myc (be it plate or liquid) it cuts colonization time ALOT because you dont have to wait for spores to germinate. Grains go from 13 days colonization time with spores to 6-7 with myc.

And I still do use agar but for isolation purposes. Thats the real reason agar is used as grain to grain transfers (just scoop out a piece of grain into a new jar) are so easy and liquid cultures (search karo tek, honeywater tek, malt can be substituted along with a number of other things) are as well. What I mean by isolation is two things. If you have a contamed syringe you can take a chunk of white stuff from a contamed jar and throw it on agar and get it away from the contams. I dont know if this will work with every mold but I was getting green and pinheads (both grain loving molds, not sugar loving which is what MEA is, sugar that is) and if I transfered myc to new grain jars the spores would germinate. Then I threw a peice on a plate and (as best as I understand) because they didnt have the food they liked they didnt germinate but the white stuff grew. I then used that to make grain jars and they are ok finally. I couldnt have done that without agar.

Another thing is even with a clean syringe you have what is called a multispore. It's just all random spores taken from a single cap. Some spores are good and some arent so good. You want to get only the strong to survive though, so you want to find the strongest spore. If you squirt spores on agar you'll notice that growth starts in different places and some will be fuzzy but some will be very ropey and quick. Thats the good stuff you want. You then transfer only that peice to a new plate then that plate will grow out QUICKLY and look beautiful. You can see what I mean if you do plates when you do a multispore, the plate doesn't always even finish but the one that you took the good peice and put it on will finish very fast. Then use every bit of that plate and put some wedges into some jars and put one wedge into a liquid culture. Now you have a bunch of jars (can do about 10 plus the liquid culture off one plate) and a liquid culture all using very rhizmiphoric mycelium that will colonize very quickly and supposedly give you better fruits. This isolation is not needed and multispores work just fine, you could just inject some spores into the karo water and that would be multispore but it would grow and fairly quick in your jars (compared to starting jars with spores) and work just fine.

Hope this helps. Good luck.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Agar ;) [Re: scatmanrav]
    #3064918 -

scatmanrav said:
I'd suggest using a liquid media and making myc syringes. It's basically the same thing but you leave out the agar in the recipe. So for say MEA were you have malt and agar you just make malt water and inject a few spores into that. The myc will grow in a few weeks and youll see it then you can just take a syringe and suck it up. You put new water in the syringe before doing it and squirt the water in then suck the myc out and then you can just keep that jar of myc and use that for a LONG time, 100's of innoculations. Liquid cultures are easier to deal with then agar as well, no messing with plates and pouring and solidifying and cutting wedges and such. I used to use plates that way but now I've moved on.

Also a benifit of starting with myc (be it plate or liquid) it cuts colonization time ALOT because you dont have to wait for spores to germinate. Grains go from 13 days colonization time with spores to 6-7 with myc.

And I still do use agar but for isolation purposes. Thats the real reason agar is used as grain to grain transfers (just scoop out a piece of grain into a new jar) are so easy and liquid cultures (search karo tek, honeywater tek, malt can be substituted along with a number of other things) are as well. What I mean by isolation is two things. If you have a contamed syringe you can take a chunk of white stuff from a contamed jar and throw it on agar and get it away from the contams. I dont know if this will work with every mold but I was getting green and pinheads (both grain loving molds, not sugar loving which is what MEA is, sugar that is) and if I transfered myc to new grain jars the spores would germinate. Then I threw a peice on a plate and (as best as I understand) because they didnt have the food they liked they didnt germinate but the white stuff grew. I then used that to make grain jars and they are ok finally. I couldnt have done that without agar.

Another thing is even with a clean syringe you have what is called a multispore. It's just all random spores taken from a single cap. Some spores are good and some arent so good. You want to get only the strong to survive though, so you want to find the strongest spore. If you squirt spores on agar you'll notice that growth starts in different places and some will be fuzzy but some will be very ropey and quick. Thats the good stuff you want. You then transfer only that peice to a new plate then that plate will grow out QUICKLY and look beautiful. You can see what I mean if you do plates when you do a multispore, the plate doesn't always even finish but the one that you took the good peice and put it on will finish very fast. Then use every bit of that plate and put some wedges into some jars and put one wedge into a liquid culture. Now you have a bunch of jars (can do about 10 plus the liquid culture off one plate) and a liquid culture all using very rhizmiphoric mycelium that will colonize very quickly and supposedly give you better fruits. This isolation is not needed and multispores work just fine, you could just inject some spores into the karo water and that would be multispore but it would grow and fairly quick in your jars (compared to starting jars with spores) and work just fine.

Hope this helps. Good luck.


^^^what he said

:thumbup: sure helped me. thanks scatmanrav


--------------------
buh

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Agar ;) [Re: shirley knott]
    #3065110 -

How long with the liquid myc solution stay good in the fridge? Also, how much malt to how much water? Trying to see how far I can strecth a single syringe :smile:  The tek I found said 1 cup water and 1 tablespoon malt extract. Doesn't seem like that would make a ton of syringes, but I'm not sure. Just looking for proven methods to stecth 1 spore syringe to a ton of jars.


--------------------
Everything I say on this board is a lie.

Eat more string cheese. It's good for you.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Agar ;) [Re: SCIOpenEyedDream]
    #3065120 -

Spore syringes will out last myc. syringes big time and agar plates as well because spores are natures way of survival hands down! So it all depends on how long ya want to store it. BTW myc may still look just fine after 2yrs. if stored properly but if it's metabolic activity hasn't been slowed down then senescing will occur. All that is needed are a few grains of myc covered rye stored under distilled water if storing for very long periods (5+ years) although I've had a spore syringe put out healthy growth after being refrigerated for over 6yrs. :wink: GL and Welcome SCI

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Agar ;) [Re: hyphae]
    #3065201 -

I think liquid myc will last serveral months..which isnt to bad, then when your out you just throw some more spores that you took over that several months into a new jar. I dont plan on using mine past 3 months (maybe less, we'll see) because I just dont see the need. As you said you want to stretch the syringe which implies doing a bunch at once right now, not really long term storage. For long term I think spores are absolutly the way to go. Just take a few spore prints and make a few syringes then throw them in the fridge as well. Then any time you want to start a new my cculture go to your spore syringe and make a new one. As long as you have SOMETHING of the mushroom left you only need 1 spore syringe and you can make it last. You can take a peice of a mushroom (fresh) or a peice of myc (just one little grain) or a single cc of spores then you can grow more from there. People should never have to buy more then one spore print/syringe of any one strain..


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Agar ;) [Re: scatmanrav]
    #3068026 -

Just checking some stuff out to see if it works...

1- Everything I've heard about spore prints say to store them in a cool, dark, and draft free location. The fridge is no good though? I assume if it was better for them in there some tek would say so... but none do. Yet syringes and everything else go in there, heh.

2- How much colonized grain would I have to put on an agar tray to make it colonize? Could I just put 1 piece of grain? That would be nuts... when I case I could just take a piece of the grain out of the casing, put in an agar tray, let it grow, and make like 12 more jars from that... assuming this would work.

3- The cardboard tek (http://www.shroomery.org/index/par/25944)... anyone just as happy with the results from this as they are from regular agar? Also... could I just keep the cardboard in a canning jar?

4- Lastly, this tek for shroom water (http://www.shroomery.org/index/par/7943). Any success with this?

Thanks in advance guys. I always just bought new syringes but that gets expensive... and it sucks to buy the same strain twice. Since I know I'm asking a lot I'll slow down on the questions a bit and dedicate a week or so to answering them (or at least the few I can) after this post is done :smile:


--------------------
Everything I say on this board is a lie.

Eat more string cheese. It's good for you.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Agar ;) [Re: SCIOpenEyedDream]
    #3068057 -

Study some guides and teks. There are tons of agar guides out there.

If you want a reference for agar recipes, check this out...

FastFred's Media Cookbook (v0.97) Now 60 Recipes, Indexed!


-FF

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Agar ;) [Re: fastfred]
    #3069829 -

1- Everything I've heard about spore prints say to store them in a cool, dark, and draft free location. The fridge is no good though? I assume if it was better for them in there some tek would say so... but none do. Yet syringes and everything else go in there, heh.

>cool, dark, draft free....sounds like a fridge to me :thumbup: myc stuff goes in there to stop growth. It goes into a kind of vegitative state and just stays that way (for a while) until you need it.

2- How much colonized grain would I have to put on an agar tray to make it colonize? Could I just put 1 piece of grain? That would be nuts... when I case I could just take a piece of the grain out of the casing, put in an agar tray, let it grow, and make like 12 more jars from that... assuming this would work.

>One piece of grain is fine. I've done it before when trying to isolate a strain from contams. Otherwise its not really worth it though. You can just skip the agar and take half a jar of grain and throw it in 12 more jars (just a small spoon per jar, the more you put in the quicker it will colonize though). I use one jar to do about 24 new ones. The mycelium will (apparently) degrade after a number of transfers. I havn't experienced this but I try to not go past 3 or 4 transfers of the same myc. This is why liquid cultures work well...you're using the same original myc that you grew not myc that grew then transfered then continued to grow ect for 4 jars worth. Kinda gets tired I guess. Like I said, this is only what the scientist type folk tell me.

3- The cardboard tek (http://www.shroomery.org/index/par/25944)... anyone just as happy with the results from this as they are from regular agar? Also... could I just keep the cardboard in a canning jar?

I think cubies like agar better though I've heard of people using this tek for cubies just fine. I dont think it would work quite as good though seems more likly to contam and just sloppy when you can just do a liquid tek and not worry about the agar.

4- Lastly, this tek for shroom water (http://www.shroomery.org/index/par/7943). Any success with this?

This would work but if you do that with karo water instead of just plain water you'll have a culture that I would think would last longer.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Agar ;) [Re: scatmanrav]
    #3070149 -

Cooler temps slow metabolic activity thats why it works best myc and the cooler temps probably aid in keeping the spores from germinating but spores are natures storehouse they have really no metabolic activity UNTIL germinated so it sure wouldn't hurt them but IMHO it's not necessary.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Agar ;) [Re: scatmanrav]
    #3070438 -

The cardboard cloning tek works very very well!
The cardboard is actually pretty selective and doesnt contam very easily as long as you follow a generally clean procedure. It works well,as I said, for what it is intended. It is intended to be used when one doesnt want to mix and pour a bunch of plates right away,or for someone who doesnt have,or wish to mess with agar. It is perfect for a quick and reliable way to isolate a substrain via cloning. Once the cardboard has colonized you can then transfer pieces of the myc to fresh agar plates to greatly expand your ability to inocculate more substrate. There isnt anything wrong with the liquid teks ,but the cardboard works better and easier for isolating a good substrain. I wouldn't call it sloppy either, I would be more inclined to call it a solid and clean method that involves common materials that anyone can get their paws on.

Sorry to go on about this ,but it sounds like you have written it off and I would hate to see you miss out on a good tecnique that you can use!


See Ya,


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Agar ;) [Re: Mykey]
    #3071420 -

I shall keep that in mind...I'll have to try it out someday but I think I'd just rather use agar overall. I dont know why, maybe to make myself feel more important like a scientist or something :smile:


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Agar ;) [Re: Mykey]
    #3071994 -

Mykey said:
The cardboard cloning tek works very very well!
The cardboard is actually pretty selective and doesnt contam very easily as long as you follow a generally clean procedure. It works well,as I said, for what it is intended. It is intended to be used when one doesnt want to mix and pour a bunch of plates right away,or for someone who doesnt have,or wish to mess with agar. It is perfect for a quick and reliable way to isolate a substrain via cloning. Once the cardboard has colonized you can then transfer pieces of the myc to fresh agar plates to greatly expand your ability to inocculate more substrate. There isnt anything wrong with the liquid teks ,but the cardboard works better and easier for isolating a good substrain. I wouldn't call it sloppy either, I would be more inclined to call it a solid and clean method that involves common materials that anyone can get their paws on.

Sorry to go on about this ,but it sounds like you have written it off and I would hate to see you miss out on a good tecnique that you can use!


See Ya,



Indeed. Noone should dismiss this as a "poor mans agar tek" or "sloppy". The cardboard cloning technique does work very, very well. I used agar long before I tried the cardboard tek, and I was impressed with the results. If you grow a mushroom and want to try cloning, this is the tek I recommend you begin with. As Mykey said, it is also very good when you only need a single "plate" to take a clone with, and it is what I use when I need to clone a single specimen without cooking up a whole batch of agar. It saves me so much time and effort in the preparation phase. You don't even need to autoclave it, a microwave works perfectly fine... If you are just beginning your contamination risk is also much less using cardboard than typical agar recipes...

It works excellent for Ps. Cubensis. Look at the pictures in the TEK. Tell me that is not colonized agressively... Anyone who says this TEK is worthless has obviously not tried it personally, or did something wrong (its not that hard to do at all).

You can store the colonizing cardboard in any container that will maintain humidity (keep it from drying out). A jar or little gladware container will work just fine... I am also experimenting with cardboard as a culture storage medium...

It is not however, designed to be used as a spore germination medium (to get more from your syringes). For this I would recommend a liquid culture technique...


--------------------
To give is to live...


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Agar ;) [Re: ATWAR]
    #3074807 -

Dang someone says "I DONT THINK cardboard would work quite as well as agar" and people get all up in a huff. I didnt say the "TEK was worthless" and I thought I made it clear that I hadnt tried it. I wanted to mainly post on the other numbers but just gave a quick opinion on what I thought of the TEK from what I heard and in no way was misleading that I was an expert on it or discouraged the use of it. Sheesh.

Now if you'll all excuse me I'm going to go find some cardboard..


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Agar ;) [Re: scatmanrav]
    #3074886 -

I believe both of us were simply clearing it up a bit, as you basically said it was sloppy and more likely to contam. That is wrong...

Nobody was "all up in a huff"... I was simply providing the correct information on the subject...


--------------------
To give is to live...


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Agar ;) [Re: ATWAR]
    #3074982 -

I know but I did say "seems more likly to contam and just sloppy", key word being seems. I just felt cardboard might house something hidden. Then you said "to call the tek worthless" as if I did. I also wanted to clarify my position as to not having passed judgment, just that I was giving my first impressions. I have no problem with people correcting me if I am incorrect (which it seems I was as I fully take both of your statments to heart as I know you both are quite knowledgeable) but when you said "anyone who calls this tek worthless" I felt that was directed at me and wanted to clarify that I wasnt implying it was worthless only that agar felt more "scientific" (for lack of a better word) to me.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Agar ;) [Re: scatmanrav]
    #3075147 -

scatmanrav said:
when you said "anyone who calls this tek worthless" I felt that was directed at me


Not at all. It was a general statement not directed at anyone in particular...
No harm, no foul... I was skeptical at first until I tried it too...


Give it a try, but watch the saturation levels...
Moist, but not soaking wet.


--------------------
To give is to live...


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Agar ;) [Re: ATWAR]
    #3075232 -

ATWAR said:
scatmanrav said:
when you said "anyone who calls this tek worthless" I felt that was directed at me


Not at all. It was a general statement not directed at anyone in particular...
No harm, no foul... I was skeptical at first until I tried it too...


Give it a try, but watch the saturation levels...
Moist, but not soaking wet.



  I speak for myself and say that I wasnt in a huff either, I just wanted to make sure that no one counted this tek out before they gave it a chance.

  I was also quite skeptical,but since I learned about it from someone who I respected (ATWAR),I knew it had to be a worthwhile endeavor.

  So I totally understand your skepticism and wouldnt expect any less from someone who is intelligent enough to question rather than just follow. :thumbup:


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Agar ;) [Re: Mykey]
    #3075445 -

Check out:
FastFred's Media Cookbook (v0.97) Now 60 Recipes, Indexed!

It now includes the "Grey Cardboard (instead of agar)" recipe.


Would anyone care to comment on this method?


-FF

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Agar ;) [Re: fastfred]
    #3076233 -

I will comment.


The purpose of the cardboard tek in the cultivation guide is to have a non-nutritious growth medium. The one listed in your media cookbook has nutritional elements added, which means it is just as likely to contaminate as typical agar recipes...

BTW, I am testing some of your media recipes at the moment, and I can tell you right now the ones I pointed out in the thread are not worth a damn. I don't know where you got the idea these would work for mushroom culture, but you need to reevaluate your cultivation skills and knowledge on the subject... Common sense combined with everything I have learned tell me that they would be a very poor growth medium. A few users had tried to point this out to you, but you refused to listen, and asked for proof (or citations). Since you require proof, I have decided to provide proof in the form of direct comparisons. In fact, a side by side comparison is not even needed, as you can clearly see by the growth how poor the medium actually performs...

I will be posting results in your thread as soon as the plates are colonized by each species tested...


--------------------
To give is to live...


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Agar ;) [Re: ATWAR]
    #3076871 -

Thanks, ATWAR. That's awesome.

I've never claimed that all the recipes will work well. You say that I refused to listen to people about this, but nobody had complaints about any specific media, and they hadn't tried them, so I don't know what you think I should be listening to.

I'll be more than happy to remove, or add a note to, any recipes which are tested and have failed to be suitable.

There are more than 60 recipies in the guide, and I don't think there are any more than 10-15 or so that are questionable. Some of them don't even have any nutrients, like starved agar, so you can't expect them to have great growth.

Agar is also mostly for doing experiments, not just covering a plate as fast as possible. If you simply want fast growth, use PDA, PDY, or MEA. You don't need any of the other medias.

I am very interested to see how your experiments turn out.

You mention that I require proof... That's not true, but I do require something other than the vague accusation that some of the medias won't work. Especially since I've already admitted that, on several occasions.

I just don't see what you and/or Una wanted me to do simply on the basis of vague speculation. The medias that you mentioned in the other thread... Well I don't expect them to be very good performers, but I would be pretty surprised if they didn't work at all.


-FF

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Agar ;) [Re: fastfred]
    #3077411 -

Quote:
I've never claimed that all the recipes will work well. You say that I refused to listen to people about this, but nobody had complaints about any specific media, and they hadn't tried them, so I don't know what you think I should be listening to.


You did indeed say that they will work (I guess the work well part was missing)... I for one had complaints about specific recipes, and Una also pointed it out that half your recipes (before you added more), were not intended for use with mushroom culture...

Quote:
Some of them don't even have any nutrients, like starved agar, so you can't expect them to have great growth.



That is true, but why do you think they are necessary then? I understand the purpose of water agar, but recipes designed for bacteria?

Quote:
Agar is also mostly for doing experiments, not just covering a plate as fast as possible. If you simply want fast growth, use PDA, PDY, or MEA. You don't need any of the other medias.


I don't need media suggestions, thanks though... May I ask what would be the purpose of experimenting with agar designed for bacteria? When one does agar culture, the purpose is to grow mycelium with the intent to propagate it further, or to isolate a pure (clean) culture. These questionable recipes are far more likely to support the proper growth of contaminants rather than mycelia... Experimenting with them would be nothing more than a waste of time...

Quote:
You mention that I require proof... That's not true, but I do require something other than the vague accusation that some of the medias won't work. Especially since I've already admitted that, on several occasions.



Hmm. Now you are saying that some won't work, when in your thread you say "AFAIK all of the media types listed will support proper growth of mycelium.". It appears you are just covering your ass now... While you insist that people back up their accusations, I insist that you provide some sort of information into why these recipes were selected to be copy and pasted...

Quote:
The medias that you mentioned in the other thread... Well I don't expect them to be very good performers, but I would be pretty surprised if they didn't work at all.


Then I ask again, what would be the purpose of using media designed for bacteria and molds? If the media does not support the proper and healthy growth of mycelium, then it is pointless to use for our purposes... Your thread is misleading as to imply the use of all the recipes for mushroom culture when indeed some of them will perform extremely poorly (as suspected)...

I will post results as soon as they are in...


--------------------
To give is to live...


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Agar ;) [Re: ATWAR]
    #3077540 -

ATWAR said:
You did indeed say that they will work (I guess the work well part was missing)... I for one had complaints about specific recipes,[...]


If I recall right... You said something along the lines of "I don't think that X, Y, and Z media will work." Again I say... What do you want me to do? Do you think I should just randomly remove recipes simply based on speculation like that?

I did organize the guide into sections to clear things up a bit, and I do plan to write an intro or note about some of the medias at the end not being optimal.


Quote:
>Some of them don't even have any nutrients...<
That is true, but why do you think they are necessary then? I understand the purpose of water agar, but recipes designed for bacteria?


I don't know all of the many different experiments that could be performed. Each experimenter has their own ideas about what they want to investigate. I would imagine that having a lot of different recipes would help anyone investigating nutritional requirements, etc. I really don't understand why people seem to be actually upset because I've included a lot of recipes.


Quote:
May I ask what would be the purpose of experimenting with agar designed for bacteria?


Which media(s) are you referring to? Almost all the medias that I included are very simple and aren't "designed" for anything specific.


Quote:
When one does agar culture, the purpose is to grow mycelium with the intent to propagate it further, or to isolate a pure (clean) culture.


There are other factors to consider such as storage and experimentation and who knows what else. There are different selection strategies that require the use of different media, etc.

I'm totally open to trimming down the guide somewhat, but speculation about the suitability of medias isn't a good enough reason. Anything that proves to be a poor media will be thrown out.

Maybe you have some ideas about how to best do this. I was thinking that anything that performs under 10% of PDA should be tossed. Do you think that's a reasonable criteria?


Quote:
Experimenting with them would be nothing more than a waste of time...


Experiments are rarely a waste of time, unless they've already been done. Finding out if mycelium will grow on different media seems like a pretty good experiment to me.

Quote:
Hmm. Now you are saying that some won't work, when in your thread you say "AFAIK all of the media types listed will support proper growth of mycelium.". It appears you are just covering your ass now...


I also said that I hadn't tried all of them and that there were probably some that wouldn't work too well. AFAIK was the key word in that quote of mine. I said it to shut down the unproductive and vague speculation that was going on, and it is 100% true. I'm not knowingly keeping poor medias in the cookbook, but in the absence of any evidence that they don't work I choose to wait and see before I decide. I'll be trying a lot of them myself in the future, so I would just as soon wait until the data is in.


Quote:
While you insist that people back up their accusations, I insist that you provide some sort of information into why these recipes were selected to be copy and pasted...


My criteria for choosing what to include was mainly simplicity. If I thought it could be prepared at home without a chemical stockroom, then I included it. I also threw out many that I didn't think would support growth. There were a number that were questionable so I decided to leave them in and solicit other people's advice and experience. If nobody knows, well then it makes a good experiment.


Quote:
Then I ask again, what would be the purpose of using media designed for bacteria and molds?


Could you be more specific? Few, if any, of the media I included are "designed for bacteria". Most of them aren't designed at all and are just simple ways of putting different nutes into agar.

Malt is designed for brewing beer, not growing mushrooms, maybe we should throw out all the malt recipes?


Quote:
If the media does not support the proper and healthy growth of mycelium, then it is pointless to use for our purposes...


I am in total agreement here. Pending the results of your experiments, I'm sure there will be some good data to add to the cookbook.


Quote:
Your thread is misleading as to imply the use of all the recipes for mushroom culture when indeed some of them will perform extremely poorly (as suspected)...


I'm not trying to mislead anyone. In fact, it really doesn't say much about mushrooms at all in my media cookbook and it certainly doesn't claim that any specific media will absolutely 100% work.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1 | 2  [ show all ]

Shop: Mushroom-Hut Liquid Cultures   MagicBag.co All-In-One Bags That Don't Suck   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   North Spore Bulk Substrate   Sporeworks.EU Spores for European Microscopy   Myyco.com Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale   Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds

Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Mushroom Cultivation
Threaded Mode Threaded  Previous topic Previous  View all topics Index  Next topic Next 

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* how to use cardboard cultures to inoculate grain jars and how to use a liquid culture to inoculate lordoftheshroomz 6,824 12 05/08/05 03:55 PM
by lordoftheshroomz
* Multispore inoculation to LC--is that myc all of the same genetic line? patchwork 2,408 13 06/28/05 03:44 PM
by tahoe
* Why work with agar?
( 1 2 all )		 TODAY 3,304 23 03/04/05 11:51 AM
by tripndicular
* *DELETED* psilocybeen 1,279 3 01/28/05 08:26 AM
by Peterthinks
* Could it be?? have I birthed(into liquid) a NEW strain????
( 1 2 all )		 Psilocybeingzz 5,689 30 06/18/04 10:11 PM
by Psilocybeingzz
* liquid mycilum, one genetic fungus? crippledavenger 642 1 02/18/04 11:46 AM
by Joshua
* Agar's fun IGnosticAbhorI 2,346 14 06/27/05 09:21 AM
by IGnosticAbhorI
* Spores, G2G, Liquid Culture, Cloning & Colonization Time.
( 1 2 3 all )		 agar 56,615 43 07/08/23 07:04 AM
by Screwup

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Shroomism, george castanza, RogerRabbit, veggie, mushboy, fahtster, the_chosen_one, LogicaL Chaos, 13shrooms, hamloaf, cronicr, Stipe-n Cap, Pastywhyte, bodhisatta, Tormato, Land Trout, A.k.a
7,807 topic views. 8 members, 820 guests and 133 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2026 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.037 seconds spending 0.014 seconds on 16 queries.