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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Mushroom Cultivation
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General consensus - open to all advice
    #29636602 -

Greetings all from a friendly wandering Ferengi.

Would love if I can get a general consensus if I am on the right path or am being dumb somewhere in method/equipment/tek. I have read many forum post, details, beginner flow chart and lots of teks. I am the kind of person that learns from trial and error, however I want to be successful as a first timer.

I will be starting my first grow and was thinking of experimenting with some jars being:
1) PF TEK > fruiting into monotub (instead of SGFC)
2) Spores > agar xfers > grain jar (pc'd) > 100% coir > monotub.

Reviewing the hitch hikers guide it says first and foremost, "Please do not inject spores into grain or substrate", however when I review the Updated PF-Tek Guide 2023 Edition. Step 4 under inoculation explains to use spore syringe to the jar.

Is the premise that the liquid culture in the syringe is already sterile with no contams? If I need clean liquid culture then I might have to abandon PF TEK for now unless I can use spore > agar xfer with that tek. Being new and according to the getting started flow chart, it appears the most acceptable method is spores > agar then continue when a healthy slice is available to xfer to grain, etc.



Supplies I have/will use (not PF TEK as I know I would need verm and other stuff):

23QT Pressure Cooker

Quart jars - Standard size mouth with plastic and metal lids.
I was reading some people use the metal lids upside down PC'd and then opened in SAB for agar xfer. Or should I modify the plastic lids with Polyfill and micron tape (have to review a tek for this). Best practice?

Grain - Rye berries or WBS

Substrate - Plan to use 100% coir thats at field capacity.

Plastic agar containers -Round storage containers clear with screw lids (safe for PC use)

Multiple monotubs using method - Pastywhytes Ez dialed monotub

SAB - Cheap plastic one that I cut arm hole circles in as it was previously fully gloved.

Miscellaneous supplies.

Love and Peace

Edited by FerengiTrader (07/31/26 01:04 PM)

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Re: General consensus - open to all advice [Re: FerengiTrader]
    #29636706 -

Welcome FerengiTrader!

The starting assumption is always that a spore print carries potential contaminants. So the safest approach is to germinate the spores on agar, select, and then transfer or prepare LC/LI for subsequent inoculations.

PF-Tek can forgive direct multi-spore inoculation to a certain extent given its less nutritious nature, however — grain does not forgive.

Purchased LC syringes don't come with sterility as a given and there's always a small margin of risk. Agar will tell you.

If you're going to attempt it with grain, I'd recommend making sure your PC hits those 15 PSI.

In general, all the methods/teks mentioned in The Hitchhiker's Guide are there because they work.

Regarding lids, a good practice is to use them modified with self-sealing ports.

The "best practice" is the one that will give you the highest success rate within your own context. Trust yourself, don't fall into paralysis by analysis. With practice everything will become clearer and the forum is here to help you refine the process and clarify questions as they come up.

Hugs :heart:


--------------------
"Little shark in da bathtub"

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Re: General consensus - open to all advice [Re: FerengiTrader]
    #29636708 -

If you are starting with spores, then yes agar is the way to go. But- the exception to the rule is PFTek, as it gives spores a fighting chance to germinate and colonize in spite of contams, very different to grains. Ziran's updated PFTek that you linked is excellent.

For fruiting PFTek see Mateja's Water Tub tek.

You will want smaller jars, it really relies on the colonization speed of the 4 or 8oz jars.

Once you get some fruits with the PFTek, you can clone some and that will really get things moving. Do a couple of transfers from your clone and then you can go agar to grain with high confidence.

Bod and Stipe both have provided superb writeups on making and using agar.

Stipe's Why Agar?

Bod's Comprehensive Agar Tek


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Edited by bluescreen (07/31/26 07:35 AM)

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Re: General consensus - open to all advice [Re: Belintaf]
    #29636710 -

Personally I don't trust sfds n don't use bags.

I have great experiences with unmodified flipped lids


I'd rather use an syringe filter temporarily untell I was ready to use lc too so I wouldnt use sfds for that too 💀

There's a million ways to get to the same place. All that matters is the journey what you can take from it and the results 🫡

Mush love ant enjoy the journey :rockon:


--------------------





An enigma some caerulescens n a mono 😎

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Re: General consensus - open to all advice [Re: FerengiTrader] * 4
    #29636723 -

I read in an answer, BRF is less nutritous, so less prone to contam.
That´s bullshit, BRF is a nutrition bomb.
Due to its structure it has the ability to lock some bacteria in a corner,
and lays it dormant there.
Additionaly brown rice flour has no endospores.
In the last 10 years there were syringes sold that dirty,
which you could never clean up on agar.
Just mold and bacteria in all colours.
Seems to have become a bit better these days.

In your case i´d stick to PF Tek for now.
For quart jars you want a bigger pc,
you won´t be happy with your 10qt one.
Grow some cakes first and look if you want to dive deeper.

          :cookiemonster:


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Re: General consensus - open to all advice [Re: Goatrider] * 1
    #29636744 -

Thanks for the correction — that was imprecisely stated on my part.

What I meant was relative: BRF has a lower protein profile compared to whole grains like rye or oats (~7-8% vs ~12-15%), and in PF-Tek that's further diluted by the 2:1:1 ratio with inert vermiculite. So the nutritional density per cm³ of substrate ends up significantly lower than whole grain.

I wasn't aware that the primary mechanism behind PF-Tek's contam resistance was structural rather than nutritional.

The point about brown rice carrying no endospores is also new to me.


--------------------
"Little shark in da bathtub"

Edited by Belintaf (07/31/26 07:14 AM)

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Re: General consensus - open to all advice [Re: Goatrider] * 1
    #29636888 -

Thanks all for the replies!

@bluescreen Since PF Tek is the exception then I guess it wont hurt to try some jars straight from the spore syringe and see how they turn out.

@Goatrider If I understand correctly, the lack of endospores and the structure "locking" the bacteria down. Then it is acceptable to use a spore syringe in this format. If true, then I can't wait to try this tek as its very fascinating to me.

PF Tek probably would have noted this in the write up if it was the case, but I am curious. Would it be more effective/"safer" to use spore syringe > agar > xfer healthy slices into PF TEK?

Also, I made a mistake that I will update in initial post. My pressure cooker is a Presto 23 QT.

Edited by FerengiTrader (07/31/26 01:26 PM)

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Re: General consensus - open to all advice [Re: FerengiTrader] * 1
    #29636931 -

FerengiTrader said:
Thanks all for the replies!

@bluescreen Since PF Tek is the exception then I guess it wont hurt to try some jars straight from the spore syringe and see how they turn out.

@Goatrider If I understand correctly, the lack of endospores and the structure "locking" the bacteria down. Then it is acceptable to use a spore syringe in this format. If true, then I can't wait to try this tek as its very fascinating to me.

PF Tek probably would have noted this in the write up if it was the case, but I am curious. Would it be more effective/"safer" to use spore syringe > agar > xfer healthy slices into PF TEK?

Also, I made a mistake that I will update in initial post. My pressure cooker is a Presto 23 QT.


Ok, so you have the defacto standard PC, good job.

PFTek is sorta the most awesome thing if you want to do anything other than produce large amounts of fruits from super clean culture. You can prep BRF cakes in tall jars, just an inch at the bottom, and in vitro fruit. You can fruit directly from regular half pints right out the top in a fruiting chamber. You can skip the verm layer and drop whatever right on the substrate (in a still air box)- tissue from clones, spores, spores from syringe, LC, LI, some myc from another jar- it works great.

On mobile but will post links to stuff from Fahtster, ReverendMyc, and others on the awesomeness of PFTek. Fahtster is one of the OG cultivators and is so heavy duty with PFtek RogerRabbit referenced him back in the day.

Bottom line stick around ask questions and avoid LC or anything more complicated than agar wedge to grain jar until you're making canopies.


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Edited by bluescreen (07/31/26 02:07 PM)

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