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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: tree frog]
    #29611132 -

TTBVI ez-dial monotub day 3 after casing




Lots of overlay

Should I recase it or just keep as is


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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Anomalocaris]
    #29611151 -

The pinset might be a bit better if you do add more casing.

But I bet it will pin either way.


--------------------
And if I only could
I'd make a deal with God
And I'd get him to swap our places
I'd be running up that road
Be running up that hill
With no problems

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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: tree frog]
    #29611221 -

Ok thx. Ill see tomorrow if its even worst then maybe Ill recase


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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: tree frog] * 1
    #29611266 -

Alive 😃😁

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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Anomalocaris]
    #29611279 -

I'm not saying this is the standard protocol, but I have had success peeling the overlay off by hand, very gently. The goal is to not rip a bunch of holes in the substrate. The dryer the surface, the easier it is to grab just the overlay. Although I was using trays. Might be more difficult with a monotub.

Whatever you decide to do, you need to adjust your conditions or it will just overlay again. I have peeled off overlay, recased, and then watched the overlay come right back in a day. From my experience, too much humidity and not enough FAE is a big factor, especially for the first little bit right after casing. I like to keep things on the drier side initially, not by reducing misting but by increasing FAE. Once the pins are set, the mycelium seems alot less finicky about the conditions.

It could just be your culture too though, idk.

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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: SignedinStranger]
    #29611466 -

Are you using an external ultrasonic mister? I have also seen aquarium air rocks used directly in the water bath, do you think the external mister is a better solution? Do you have any idea what relative humidity your cycling between and is the 10min/2hr achieving this swing? I'm in the works to get a fruiting chamber setup while my cakes are cooking. Thanks!


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tree frog's guide to panaeolus
tree frog's notes on pans
MacMerdin's Simple Pan-Cakes
JCM Tub
SFF Shoebox Assembly TEK
JOC TEK Panaeolus cyanescens
Pastywhyte’s Ez dialed monotubs

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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: opamp]
    #29611562 -

Yeah I am using an external ultrasonic mister.

Yes, you can also use air stones. I have not tried that method myself but I know it works well. And my mister is not there to do what air stones would do. Air stones provide fresh air exchange and I believe with that setup you would not have any holes drilled in the side of the tub. Since I do have holes in my mine, I get passive FAE that way. The main reason I am using a mister is so I can keep my tub open and FAE high during the day while I am away. Other reasons are to reduce how often I need to mist by hand and to replace the evaporating water in the bath. After the pins are set, the tub typically becomes fully automated. It can definitely be done without a mister though.

I do have a cheap humidity and temp stat in my tub (so idk how accurate the reading is) but it is telling me the humidity is typically 80 to 85% most of the time and 99% during active misting.

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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: SignedinStranger]
    #29611579 -

I decided to recase it. I added a very thin casing layer ( all the pasteurised casing I had left)



Im using ez dial monotub with a few extra holes. I opened up a couple extra holes now. I also have a fan in the room not pointing at the tub running on low for 3 minutes every hour just to have some more fae.

You think its gonna be enough? I can also increase how long the fan stays on but im worried it will dry the tub


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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Anomalocaris]
    #29611610 -

I have not personally used an EZ dial tub but you should end up with some fruits at the very least, if everything goes right. I would make sure the lid is not latched down and instead elevate it so there is a gap at the top. You can use Loctite mounting tak to achieve that. See Baba Yagas monotub tek for more info on that, specifically the unmodified tub section.

When you had overlay the first time, what were the conditions like in the tub? Wetter or drier?

Also how did the culture look on agar? Thick or wispy?

I really think overlay is caused by the combination of too much humidity and not enough FAE, which naturally go hand in hand, but what I mean is, if you think you don't have that much FAE, lay off the misting. Don't mist just to mist, like thinking you have to do it at least twice a day on a schedule or something. Only mist when the substrate is starting to dry out a little.

Although if the culture looked really thick on agar, then it may just overlay regardless.

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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: SignedinStranger]
    #29611638 -



This is my culture

Ez dials are made for cubes but I added 2 extra holes on each side and a fan on a timer in the room.

It might still be not enough fae for pans tho. Its first time im doing pans so im not sure.

I mist with a very fine mister to keep small beads of water on the surface a couple times a day when the casing is colonised and mist the lid when the heat of my grow cfl light dries the lid.


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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Anomalocaris]
    #29611648 -

In my experience FAE is the single most important factor in pin and fruit formation.

Fruits that are low on FAE are only an inch or two long with tiny caps.

I know Baba has done pans in a monotub so it is possible, but you should probably set up the expectation that the grow won't produce enough for a single trip. That way if you get more you're not disappointed.


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I've got skills, they don't know where to use me
I'm like the best dressed guy at the nude beach
Nice to meet you!

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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: PuffM4gicDr4gon]
    #29611653 -

I can drill extra holes now if you think it wont be enough fae.

Its hard for me to know how it will affect the balance of humidity since its my first pan cyan grow.

So should I go a few more holes and compensate by misting more if its drying out?

I can also run my fan for longer in the room. I have it for 3 minutes per hour  on low not pointing at the tub


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Edited by Anomalocaris (06/26/26 03:29 PM)

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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: PuffM4gicDr4gon]
    #29611665 -

Fresh air exchange isn't just about oxygen/co2.

It's also a humidity drop.  Which helps to keep bacteria from proliferating on the caps and helps the mushrooms to regulate temperature through evaporation, which encourages cap development.

Cyans will fruit in a bucket with quart sized SFDs in the lid.  The caps are small and the fruits are lanky.  But they'll fruit.

They'll also bottom and side pin just fine, where co2 levels and humidity are very high.

My personal preference right now is to dial things in so that humidity is high during pinning (98+) and lower during fruiting (around 85).  Using heavy mist cycles to keep the casings damp prior to pinning (10 min/hour).  And less frequent cycles once the trays are fruiting (10 min/3 hours).  I may have read up on Blue Helix's approach while on break...  and have moved away from hand misting casings (though I rehydrate after the first flush and the fogger does the rest, this later bit being what I cribbed from Blue).

Air exchange I'm running like dreamers, only the fans face out so the delicate cyans don't dry out.

Tl;dr

You may have more luck letting overlay ride with some recasing as you already did, and cutting back on the fan so you can skip hand misting.  Then introduce the fan after the first flush pins set.


--------------------
And if I only could
I'd make a deal with God
And I'd get him to swap our places
I'd be running up that road
Be running up that hill
With no problems

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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: tree frog]
    #29611673 -

Yea I dont think ill attempt pans in a regular monotub next time its just too much guessing. Ill make a dreamer tub next time

Hell I allready have a reptile fogger and inkbird humidity sensor. I could just drill a hole in my current monotub and put it in to attempt a ghetto dreamer setup for this time.

If I add the fogger I could mb flip the lid or drill more holes.

So if I add the sensor with the fogger I keep rh high 98% like you said for pinning stage?

I wonder how accurate the sensor is tho


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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Anomalocaris]
    #29611686 -

I run the fogger on long cycles.



So, the percentage rH is just a point of reference, essentially I want the casing to stay damp without me having to mist it.  While also not running the fogger so much that it floods everything.

Then during fruiting I want things to dry off pretty well before fogging again.

In practice this is saturated humidity every hour during pinning.  And every three hours during fruiting.  With bottom ranges according to the rH reader around 98 or 85 respectively.

But those actual numbers can vary quite a bit depending on how warm it is.  And the saturation is less about rH and more about letting the cool mist keep the casings damp, as that's where it should settle.

In other words, replace misting with the fogger to keep the casing damp.  And then cut it back once pins set so the humidity is lower and you get better cap morphology.  Use rH as a reference point to gauge evaporation rates and potential bacteria outbreaks.



Also, high humidity during pin setting is common across mushroom species.  Here's Stamets from the Mushroom Cultivator on cyanescens.



And a diagram concerning managing blotch in agaricus bisporus.  Note that above 85 is where this bacteria thrives.  And that moisture on the caps allows the bacteria to move more freely.



Here is Blue Helix talking about ink birds and misting cycles.  He was using a tent and misting a lot more than I have to in my tubs.  But essentially run the fogger as much as you need to to keep the casing damp until things pin.

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27537866#27537866


--------------------
And if I only could
I'd make a deal with God
And I'd get him to swap our places
I'd be running up that road
Be running up that hill
With no problems

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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: tree frog]
    #29611692 -

Cool thx. So you prefer to run them on timers because humidity sensors are not 100% reliable? And you prefer to keep an eye on surface conditions and this is the timing that worked the best for you


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Edited by Anomalocaris (06/26/26 04:27 PM)

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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Anomalocaris]
    #29611698 -

My temps are also too low its like 24c in the room and I cant go much higher for that room.

Im thinking of adding a seed heating mat like you and put it on top of the tub since I dont wanna heat up the substrate directly for my current monotub


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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Anomalocaris]
    #29611699 -

Essentially yes.  But also because during pinning I'm trying to keep evaporation low and the casings damp, rather than air humidity high per se.  So, very rH is mostly a measure of low evaporation.  But I also don't want it to stay at 100 because that means there isn't any evaporation.  Though it does spike up to 100 during and after the fog cycle.

Once things are fruiting the casing will dry out some, but I try not to worry about it unless it's happening quickly.  In which case I'll fog for longer or more often.

Actual hand watering I now do between harvests.  Where I'll saturate the casing with the sink sprayer or a hand mister.

In other words, it's all a relationship between air exchange, humidity, heat, and watering casings with the fogger.  With the goal being damp casings, humidity just under 100 during pinning. And lower humidity during cap development to get healthy sized fruits, without drying things out so much that the casing goes bone dry or the caps crack like in the low humidity/high air exchange example in the agaricus photo above.

Fake edit, 24c is fine.  Mine run 24-25c.  They're set at 25 but drop a bit when the fogger is running or if the house is to cool for the mats to keep up.

And it's still under 21c here most days, so I do need some assistance.


--------------------
And if I only could
I'd make a deal with God
And I'd get him to swap our places
I'd be running up that road
Be running up that hill
With no problems

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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: tree frog] * 2
    #29611705 -

Cross posting from cake wars.  This was a homemade multi spore syringe to PF Tek.  The only thing I really did different from cubes is I'm fruiting it in the jar and I left some verm on top for a make shift casing.

tree frog said:
I have pan cyan pins!  Temp is still low 70s and high 60s.

And in a 12 quart dub water tub too!  No lights, no heat.  No misting, just the initial pf dunk.  No added nitrogen and no casing.



But it wasn't the one I planned to enter :lol:



--------------------
And if I only could
I'd make a deal with God
And I'd get him to swap our places
I'd be running up that road
Be running up that hill
With no problems

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: tree frog]
    #29611729 -

I added the reptile fogger now and inkbird sensor. Ill just use the inkbird to turn things on or off for now my setup is kinda ghetto dreamer for this one.

I flipped the lid of the tub for extra air and run a fan outside the tub for 10 mins per hour.


What differential should I put for the inkbird to turn the fogger on and off for the pinning stage? Its set at 6 at the moment so 98 off 92 on


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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Mushroom Cultivation
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