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tree frog's notes on pans * 14
    #29419465 -

Feel free to reply and ask questions on anything I post here.  But my intention is to leave this opening post as an index.  And fill the rest of the thread with miscellaneous teks, musings, and write ups so I have everything in one place and can share it easily.

Agar recipes and why low nutrient plates?
Fruiting Tempermental Pans
Grass Seed Application and Tray Rescue
Is Pan Cyan synonomoous with Panaeolus?
Mineral Rich Casing
Nitrogen Needs and Cased Grain
Pastuerization, compost, and thermophiles
Popcorn InstaPot Prep
Simple Heated Fruiting Chamber
Storing pastuerized materials
What is a casing?
When and why do Pans love evaporation?


--------------------
And if I only could
I'd make a deal with God
And I'd get him to swap our places
I'd be running up that road
Be running up that hill
With no problems

Edited by tree frog (12/25/25 06:59 AM)

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Re: tree frog's notes on pans [Re: tree frog] * 7
    #29419466 -

A Simple Heated Fruiting Chamber



Since it's fall and I don't have to deal with fungus gnats, I thought I would experiment with a simple and accessible fruiting chamber.  And so far I've been quite happy with the results.

Pan. bisporus


Pan. punjabensis


Third flush bvi - bc


Mystery SA grass rescue


So the tote itself is an unmodified 80 qt gasket sterilite.  I imagine other totes could work, but I picked this one up because I planned to eventually make it into a dreamer.  However, I do think that this tote in particular works well because it is tall.  And I also like that it has six handles, because I use those to prop the lid up and allow air exchange.  You can see in the picture below that there's quite a nice gap all the way around.



Aside from the tote, the build consists of two water proof seed heating mats, a temperature controller, a wire rack, four half pint jars, perlite, water, and of course, lights.  I will get into each of these components and why I set it up this way.  I imagine it doesn't need to be built exactly like this, but I figure if I explain my reasoning then y'all will have a better idea of how the build works, what the potential problems are with it, and what will suit your needs.



So, first up we have the seed mats themselves. You can see I'm using two of them to heat one tote. My thought behind this is to ensure that the heating is as even as possible.  And I don't have the tote elevated up off of the seed mats, because this tote has a lip around the bottom.  So aside from the spots where the lip rests on the seed mats, it's already elevated about a quarter of an inch.



Here's the temperature probe. You can see I'm taking the reading near the substrate.  The reason for this is so I don't over heat or dry out my trays.  And the controller is set to 80f, though the actual temperature fluctuates quite a bit depending on how cool the room is.



Inside the tote, we have a wire rack resting on four half pint jars buried in wet perlite.  The rack elevates the trays, reducing how much they dry out from the bottom heating.  That said, I'm still doing quite a bit of side watering, but much less than in an earlier build without the rack.  The half pint jars are used because wet perlite behaves like quick sand, and buried the racks when I attempted this without them.



I'm also using two inches of perlite.  Which you can see gives us a gap between the jars and the rack.  As for the water, I keep it just high enough that the surface is mostly wet perlite.  Which gives more surface area for evaporation than water alone.  And once or twice a week I'll add more water to replace what evaporated.



The last component is the lights, and there's not a whole lot to say here.  I do use two lights so that the trays have even coverage and they emit both white and blue light.  In addition to helping the colony with circadian rythyms and Vitamin D production, they also provide a bit of evaporation during the day.  And they run on a typical 12 on/12 off cycle.

That's pretty much it for the build. A couple of things to keep in mind, is that I do end up with a lot of condensation. Especially on the lid overnight when the heating in the house isn't running as much.  So in the morning I just dump that off into the perlite.  And the other potential issue, is drying out the substrate which I already mentioned. But elevating the trays helps a lot, and a bit of side watering does the rest.

I hope y'all found this post helpful.  And if you have any questions, feel free to ask :smile:


--------------------
And if I only could
I'd make a deal with God
And I'd get him to swap our places
I'd be running up that road
Be running up that hill
With no problems

Edited by tree frog (12/04/25 11:51 AM)

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Re: tree frog's notes on pans [Re: tree frog] * 1
    #29419510 -

Grass Seed Application and Tray Rescue

Sometimes they just want friends.





Two weeks of this after casing Mystery SA.

November 6th.



Recased.



Got my supplies together (bacteria optional but they love it).



Mixed the bacteria and grass seed in a jar.



Sprinkled on liberally and washed my hands.



Misted well to germinate the seeds.



Put a lid on loose and into a warm fruiting chamber while the seeds germinated.



Once the majority of the seeds did germinate, I took the lid off and gave it another mist.  Not pictured.

11 days later spotted a pin.



And this big cluster the next morning.



Today, 13 days after recasing.  It's not the best grow but it's better than a stalled tray.  Especially if I was wanting prints or just wanted to try them.  Or to put together an educational post to share with friends :smile:





--------------------
And if I only could
I'd make a deal with God
And I'd get him to swap our places
I'd be running up that road
Be running up that hill
With no problems

Edited by tree frog (12/04/25 01:17 PM)

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Re: tree frog's notes on pans [Re: tree frog] * 2
    #29419516 -

Popcorn InstaPot Prep

tl;dr  Wash, rinse, 50 60 minutes in IP covered with plenty of water, manual release.  Strain and then steam dry thoroughly.  PC 90-120 minutes as usual.

Anyway...

I start off by measuring four cups of small kernal popcorn, which hydrated is around nine full cups.  I use Amish Country's ladyfinger, but any white or yellow baby popcorn will work fine.  Standard size popcorn can work too, but you will probably need another 10 or 20 minutes in the IP to fully hydrate your corn.



I add a bit of dish soap and run hot water over it, washing and stirring the kernels with my hands.  This is to remove dust and other particles from the grain, so that hydration is more even.



I reduce the temperature of the tap water, and allow the water to overflow so that stray material can float out.



Once the water is clear, I pour out enough that I'm under the max pressure line.  Popcorn can hold a lot of water.  So, I like to leave enough water that the kernels are still completely covered at the end of the cycle.



Fifty Sixty minutes on high, like cooking dry beans but with twenty extra minutes.  I manually release to take advantage of steam drying.  If you prefer to naturally release (maybe you're leaving the house for example), cook forty minutes instead.



I carefully poured the kernels into a strainer.  They're kinda fragile at this stage (hot and wet) and will break easily, so I try to be gentle.



I then poured them out on a sheet pan while still steaming.  You can see there's some burst kernels but popcorn holds its shape well as long as physical force isn't applied.  And burst grains don't cause clumping after sterilization like with other grains.



Any broken kernels however I pull out and eat.  I found two like this in this batch.  Sometimes I find more like ten :shrug:



I carefully spread the kernels out to dry.  I used a dough knife to get under them to minimize physical force.  And placed the sheet pan in front of a fan.  I'll move these around through out the day, and post an update once they're dry.



Around four hours later.




18 half pint jars, each with 1/2c of popcorn.  I will run these tomorrow and post another update then.



Note:  I did 50 minutes in the photos, but ran for 60 minutes on my next run for a bit more hydration.  Could possibly go 80 minutes tbh, and I may give that a try.  Otherwise the prep is the same.  Steam dry until quite dry etc.

Some shots from the 50 minute run.








--------------------
And if I only could
I'd make a deal with God
And I'd get him to swap our places
I'd be running up that road
Be running up that hill
With no problems

Edited by tree frog (12/04/25 01:32 PM)

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Re: tree frog's notes on pans [Re: tree frog] * 3
    #29419527 -

:threadmonitor:

Ty for what you are doing for this community frog <3


--------------------
wow

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Re: tree frog's notes on pans [Re: Tropical] * 2
    #29419664 -

This is the quality content I come here for. Thank you!


--------------------
Method for Small Scale Casing Pasteurization

How much really fits in a 00 capsule?

Micro and Macro Mushroom Photography

Can you freeze mycelium?


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Re: tree frog's notes on pans [Re: RoscoeReturns]
    #29419686 -

When you say side watering do you mean on the tote or on the trays that hold the shrooms? Or both?

Thank you for making this simple I will consider some of these elements when I can.

I know you don't really do PF tek, but do you think you could try running a batch with just some homemade BRF, you can PC if you want. I am interested in what types of conditions would prove successful for cakes.

If I break a cake up into a tray can I use some verm and moisture control soil, and what ratios would you recommend? 1:1:1 (non PC)? If it needs a casing can I sprinkle verm or more soil, or a 1:1 of both? How many mm or cm would you say would be depth of casing?

Do you think throwing some paper towels in a water tub would increase or decrease evaporation? What if I cut a roll in half, or put a roll of toilet paper standing up somewhere in the tub? Could that be used for more evaporation instead of perlite?

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Re: tree frog's notes on pans [Re: tultedspoon]
    #29419690 -

I'm working with some type of Panaeolus, it could be cinctulus, could be olivacecus, or even something else.

There's a few very small pins I think I see, but they are sporadic and aren't really developing. The pins are very albino, and don't really resemble pics I've seen of cinctulus pins developing, but maybe mine are just not developed enough yet.

The stems bruise blue very readily, 2g (not cracker dry) produced a lvl 2 trip, and the test dose makes them seem stronger than what other people are saying about cinctulus or olivacecus dosages (both say 8g needed for level 5, but I think maybe 6 or 7g of these could produce a level 5 I'll update when I find a good day to experiment).

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Re: tree frog's notes on pans [Re: tultedspoon] * 3
    #29419695 -

I've linked u this before but here it is again

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18357343#18357343


--------------------
It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn
I'm tired do me a favor

I'M A MEMBER FIRST, TC WHEN NEEDED AND MOD WHEN I HAVE TO BE !!!

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Re: tree frog's notes on pans [Re: cronicr]
    #29419704 -

Thank you I had skimmed over that one a few times but I always kind of didn't look at it too much because he has the cakes buried in perlite, which I don't have.

I will give it a good reread. Thank you.

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Re: tree frog's notes on pans [Re: tultedspoon]
    #29419710 -

In that picture of the bisporus, there is one shroom in the very back that looks exactly like the majority of the ones I had been picking, the stems bruise very similarly, maybe I have a weak bisporus strain or something. I read that sometimes olivacecus can sometimes look like bisporus in a thread on here so maybe I have potent olivacecus, or something entirely else.

There are so many Panaeolus species, I believe many are misidentified as cinctulus.

There are pictures of Panaeolus subfirmus and even some Panaeolus sphinctrinus (the pictures for this one really vary a lot, but there are some that resemble the shrooms I have, the ones without the ridges on the cap and that look more like the majority of subfirmus pictures) that look like what I am working with. And there isn't a lot of information or even good pictures on some of these species as compared to cinctulus or cyans which get the majority of attention, when talking about Panaeolus broadly.

Edited by tultedspoon (12/04/25 06:20 PM)

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Re: tree frog's notes on pans [Re: tultedspoon] * 1
    #29419711 -

tultedspoon said:
I'm working with some type of Panaeolus, it could be cinctulus, could be olivacecus, or even something else.

There's a few very small pins I think I see, but they are sporadic and aren't really developing. The pins are very albino, and don't really resemble pics I've seen of cinctulus pins developing, but maybe mine are just not developed enough yet.

The stems bruise blue very readily, 2g (not cracker dry) produced a lvl 2 trip, and the test dose makes them seem stronger than what other people are saying about cinctulus or olivacecus dosages (both say 8g needed for level 5, but I think maybe 6 or 7g of these could produce a level 5 I'll update when I find a good day to experiment).


There's other threads for this.  Do you not understand the context of this one?

It's just me digging stuff out of my journal and various posts, not making a new pan general discussion thread.  We have a pan thread.  If you have questions or comments about the things linked in the index, or want to participate in discussion about the things in the index, please do.

But do not post your random stuff here.  Do not hijack this thread like you kept trying to do in Ask Quick Questions.


--------------------
And if I only could
I'd make a deal with God
And I'd get him to swap our places
I'd be running up that road
Be running up that hill
With no problems

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Re: tree frog's notes on pans [Re: tree frog]
    #29419713 -

OK thank you sorry can you answer my original question I asked about the side watering

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Re: tree frog's notes on pans [Re: tultedspoon]
    #29419719 -

:threadmonitor:

Thank you for sharing! :mushroom2:

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Re: tree frog's notes on pans [Re: tultedspoon]
    #29419720 -

And you said musings so if you didn't want other people to post I thought that was the purpose of a journal. I said one side comment as a question hoping you would know which pans have albino pins since you seem to have worked with several species.

"Feel free to reply and ask questions on anything I post here."

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Re: tree frog's notes on pans [Re: tultedspoon]
    #29419724 -

tultedspoon said:
OK thank you sorry can you answer my original question I asked about the side watering


I appreciate the apology and I understand we can all get excited and over share.

I side water the trays/jars.  And the tub.  But the tub doesn't really need it, it's just a convenient place to spray water to keep the perlite wet.


--------------------
And if I only could
I'd make a deal with God
And I'd get him to swap our places
I'd be running up that road
Be running up that hill
With no problems

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: tree frog's notes on pans [Re: tultedspoon] * 1
    #29419727 -

tultedspoon said:
And you said musings so if you didn't want other people to post I thought that was the purpose of a journal. I said one side comment as a question hoping you would know which pans have albino pins since you seem to have worked with several species.

"Feel free to reply and ask questions on anything I post here."


A journal is more private.  I'm posting this stuff publicly so folks without an account can still access it easily.

It's a public thread but it has a title.  tree frog's notes on pans..  I know very little about cinctulis or olivacious and if you want stuff IDd we have a whole forum full of folks much better than I am at it.

I would tell you to buy a microscope and look for metuloids.  That's how I ID pans.  And when I get around to posting about my microscopy work, when there's context for everyone, then you can ask me if you like.

But this isn't ask tree frog questions about random things.  It's about stuff linked in the index.  I answer a lot of questions in the pan thread already, and I would like this to be on topic so I don't get overwhelmed and burnt out with it and fuck off with the project.  Understand?


--------------------
And if I only could
I'd make a deal with God
And I'd get him to swap our places
I'd be running up that road
Be running up that hill
With no problems

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: tree frog's notes on pans [Re: tree frog] * 3
    #29419731 -

Mineral rich casing prep for 2 gallon bucket

1000g sifted peat
500g limestone (powdered calcium carbonate)
250g gypsum pellets

Mix all dry ingredients.  Add water and continue mixing until at or slightly above field capacity.

Add
250g worm castings

Sprinkle over mix to distribute evenly and then mix again thoroughly.

Pasteurize at 150f for 120 minutes and store in a bug proof container that allows some gas exchange.

This one is pretty easy.  Base recipe cribbed from Kirkeng, peat/calcium carbonate 2:1 by weight.  The gypsum and worm castings are optional, and as such you can adjust them down or leave them out.

What I really like about this recipce is that calcium carbonate is forgiving.  Meaning, I don't worry about checking the pH.


--------------------
And if I only could
I'd make a deal with God
And I'd get him to swap our places
I'd be running up that road
Be running up that hill
With no problems

Edited by tree frog (12/04/25 06:35 PM)

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Re: tree frog's notes on pans [Re: tree frog]
    #29419732 -

OK thank you yes pans get me excited. A lot of the pan research is limited, and everyone's environment is different, and they are difficult so still learning and trying to figure things out. I'll try to stick to that thread I started and only ask questions about what you posted.

I am still very hoping that you will do some experiments with standard PF tek, with BRF only, for the science, and see if with knowledge you know about evaporation and humidity if you can get the cakes to fruit easily in some type of basic water tub. Really dialing in the humidity and evaporation for others out there working with limited supplies who don't want to run and buy something else like grass seeds. Not discrediting the grass seed at all, I think it's a great idea.

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Re: tree frog's notes on pans [Re: tultedspoon] * 1
    #29419737 -

I'm fairly certain pans will fruit on standard BRF.  Especially with that worm casting enriched casing I just posted.

That doesn't mean they'll do as well as on Mac's pan cakes.  And corn meal might be a better option than brf.  If I have time and energy to do the cake wars I will try both corn and brown rice.  But, I'm not going to push myself because burnout is a thing for me.  And I don't want to get burned out.


--------------------
And if I only could
I'd make a deal with God
And I'd get him to swap our places
I'd be running up that road
Be running up that hill
With no problems

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
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