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OfflineSterile
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Pans not pinning...
    #4006239 - 04/02/05 09:33 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Hello, these are some pan casings with some fruiting cambo casings in a perlite fruiting chamber...the temp is 24 Celcious and the humidity 98%+

12/12 light cycle and fanning 4-5 times a day...

why are the pans refusing to pin? I ve been treating them really nice but nothing...its more than 8-9 days now since the fruiting cycle started...wtf?



PS: Am i supposed to drop the temp AFTER the pins are visible to the eye, or now, in order to see some pins,

thank you!


--------------------
The Source Of The Force
Is The Power Of The Mind


"if you don't like what you're doing, you can always pick up your needle and move to another groove." - timothy leary"
Anno: "-I can do anything with those clouds!"
Annos Tek




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OfflineShroomGuy86
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- [Re: Sterile]
    #4006251 - 04/02/05 09:35 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

-


--------------------
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InvisibleOlgualion
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Re: Pans not pinning... [Re: Sterile]
    #4006278 - 04/02/05 09:44 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

IMO, the answer is almost always more fresh air. Everything else sounds fine to me. You will definitely need to drop the humidity significantly after pins form.

I see cold shocking as the first step( although optional) to initation.

At this point it would probably just prolong pinning. Did the tray drop at all in temp since the casing mix was applied? You didn't sterilize your casing mix did you?


--------------------
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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: Pans not pinning... [Re: Olgualion]
    #4006942 - 04/03/05 12:43 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

"You didn't sterilize your casing mix did you?"

I bet with a name like sterile, he did..lol..I recently noticed this, you say sterilization inhibits fruiting...well just did a little mini pan thing, oops, sterile casing Mix :frown: Plus I did it in the quart jar, so its sitting down there with far to much humidity and not enough fresh air..

Sorry, I got off track...I just wanted to here more info on this. I've seen others sterilize casing mix, and those with great success too..such as Una.. So what have ye to say about this :smile: Just for the future..I usually sterilize my casing mix myself..shit I'm getting off track again..sorry..i dont know where I was going with this or anything but yeah, I think I asked it.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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InvisibleOlgualion
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Re: Pans not pinning... [Re: scatmanrav]
    #4007187 - 04/03/05 01:38 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

> bet with a name like sterile, he did..lol

This is funny, I didn't even think of that... lol

Hmmm, heres my thinking.
Why would a casing layer be necessaary for a species to fruit?  I have figured it to be because of the bacteris in the casing.  In the log I recently posted, 99% of the shrooms came from the area with the casing, but 1% did grow wthout it!  The only other reason I can think of for a species to require a casing layer is that the mycelium would need to touch something other than itself (maybe nonnutritious)??  I cant think of any other reasons? 

I remember a few times in GGMM where it is noted not to sterilise casing for certain species, because of necessary bacteria, and guess I just figured Pan cyan's are one of those species.  I am not certain this is the case though, and would definitely appreciate someone correcting me if I'm wrong!  I love to learn! :smile:

One thing I have learned is not to take anything anyone says as doctrine.  There are almost always multiple ways to reach a goal.  I just try to post what I have seen work, and sometmes hypothesize.

:smile:


Edited by Olgualion (04/03/05 01:46 AM)


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: Pans not pinning... [Re: Olgualion]
    #4007248 - 04/03/05 01:54 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Ah well...sorry I'm being so unclear..I've been tripping all night (or still...whatever) but I keep losing track of what I'm thinking about..

I believe that the needing to touch somthing other then itself is pretty good..needing the microclimate to just get up off the substrate to fruit to show itself its above ground..who knows...something along those lines..I can fell it better then explain it but I just had noticed Una and some others using a sterile casing layer..well yeah just trying to get some hypothesizing going..thanks :smile:


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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InvisibleSemilanceata
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Re: Pans not pinning... [Re: Sterile]
    #4008009 - 04/03/05 10:54 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Multispore or isolate? I?m asking this cause I tried pan cyans isolating strains from agar and non fruited. After reading a lot, I found out that many pro growers go multispore first cause it?s easier to get fruits that way. Then they clone the best looking specimen.
I?m doing multispore now, but can?t tell you if it?ll work cause the substrate is incubating right now. Anyway, it makes sense and just wanted to let you know.


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OfflineCyano
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Re: Pans not pinning... [Re: Semilanceata]
    #4008377 - 04/03/05 01:59 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

I am growing Pans at the moment and are also hoping that they will fruit. I read everything about humidity, fanning and so on. But I wonder if this is enough. In the past I have been growing Pans on straw. After full colonization and casing it took weeks/months until they started fruiting. This, and the fact that they often fruit on petridishes and that they seem to fruit easier in shallow substrate layers, gives me the idea that they might fruit when there is no more substrate left to colonize, like Cubensis. Could it be a good idea to keep the mycelium growing for a few weeks after full colonization. (When the jars look fully colonized)(My substrate is 250ml Vermiculite/150ml dung/35ml BRF/150-200ml water, which I injected with a sporesyringe. First grow was visible yesterday)After that I still can do everything required for fruiting. I just wonder if total! colonization would add an extra fruitinimpulse.


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OfflineSterile
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Re: Pans not pinning... [Re: Sterile]
    #4009270 - 04/03/05 07:13 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

The pans and cubes where from multispore, and yes i sterilized the casing layer, which was 60/40 verm/coco coir +5% crushed oyster shells, why shouldnt i sterilize? I love sterilizing! lol, seriously, it doesn't contain any nutritional value, so ,well, why not sterilize? there are no beneficial bacteria to kill anyway...

I spawned with millet, and i think i see some little pins today...lets see... they actually look like cubes to me...do the pan pins look so much like cube pins? wtf?




--------------------
The Source Of The Force
Is The Power Of The Mind


"if you don't like what you're doing, you can always pick up your needle and move to another groove." - timothy leary"
Anno: "-I can do anything with those clouds!"
Annos Tek




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InvisiblePawPaw
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Registered: 12/20/04
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Re: Pans not pinning... [Re: Sterile]
    #4009290 - 04/03/05 07:21 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Pans dont need as high a humidity as cubes...Pans have to have dry caps


--------------------
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InvisiblePawPaw
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Re: Pans not pinning... [Re: Sterile]
    #4009395 - 04/03/05 07:54 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Dude Pans are a lot quicker than cubes...are you shure you have pans?


--------------------
Come to Paw Paws place there will be no sleeping tonight

Eric just wants to catch reds ..
Don?t look back, don?t look back
He?s right on your trail
Don?t look back, don?t look back
He?s just a step away from hell
WDYWFM?


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OfflineSterile
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Re: Pans not pinning... [Re: PawPaw]
    #4009524 - 04/03/05 08:23 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

yeah, thats why i wonder what i did wrong..could it be too high humidity to make pans pin??? i know its too high, i was planning to take the perlite out, once i saw pan pins


--------------------
The Source Of The Force
Is The Power Of The Mind


"if you don't like what you're doing, you can always pick up your needle and move to another groove." - timothy leary"
Anno: "-I can do anything with those clouds!"
Annos Tek




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InvisiblePawPaw
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Re: Pans not pinning... [Re: Sterile]
    #4009665 - 04/03/05 08:56 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Man i dont know but i have seen others that have nice mycellium and it never pinned out....
Your cubes shure look nice :thumbup:


--------------------
Come to Paw Paws place there will be no sleeping tonight

Eric just wants to catch reds ..
Don?t look back, don?t look back
He?s right on your trail
Don?t look back, don?t look back
He?s just a step away from hell
WDYWFM?


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InvisibleOlgualion
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Re: Pans not pinning... [Re: Sterile]
    #4009709 - 04/03/05 09:08 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Alot of people here seem to think differently, but IMO humidity can and should be in the high 90's for initiation provided there is adequate air exchange. This has worked very well for dude...

I have now heard of numerous people sterilising their casing mix (pans/copes) with good results, but dude never has.

I could be wrong here, but I think peat straight out of the bag will contain beneficial bacteria. Pasteurise it at 150 or so for a half hour. This will kill the bad stuff while leaving the good...

Can you describe the mycelium in the jar you used to spawn the poo? Do you have a pic? Was it fluffy and white, cloud like?


--------------------
Study the past...
See the future...


Edited by Olgualion (04/03/05 09:09 PM)


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InvisibleEonTan
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Re: Pans not pinning... [Re: Sterile]
    #4012472 - 04/04/05 01:53 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

If the copelandias don't pin within 14 days of casing something is wrong. Contamination, too deep a casing layer, wrong substrate, bad genetics.

Sterilization works great for casing layers with Panaeolous/Copelandia. It is not absolutely necessary to apply one, but it will make things happen in a reasonable amount of time, and drastically improve yields. Really all you need is a dusting of a casing layer on shallow substrate casings. 

Average time to pin is 8 days from casing for most strains in circulation, but this is dependent on how colonized the substrate was prior to casing, how deep the casing layer, how deep the substrate, how large the casing, etc...

Very few casings never fruited at all, even with single dikaryon isolates from agar culture. Did have some wild spores fruit poorly, but they fruited at least one undersized fruit. Casings that did not fruit at all were usually contaminated.

The only strain I got zero fruits from was the Amsterdam strain (cullAustralia)?  I tried like ten isolates from that print and got zero to fruit.
The other 15+ all fruited at least a single fruit, and pins werre visible within 14 days, or the casing was already contaminated upon colonization of the casing layer.

Pins from Copelandia are small compared with cubensis, and it would be difficult to confuse them.

Pin formation occurs in conditions just like Cubensis pinning, you just want to lower the humidity a bit for fruit maturation. The lower the humidity, without passing some critical level, the larger the caps and the shorter the stems, and the better the sporulation.

People with automated systems just increase their air exchanges compared with cubensis, I believe. I never used an automated system, so I just leave the corners slightly open on the lid to the rubbermaid that houses the brownie tin casings. :thumbup:


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