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Re: The Official Woodlovers Thread [Re: Churpee Choozle]
    #29029592 -

This sawdust is from a smoker company! Alder pellets became sawdust sized wood after coming to contact with hot water. Right now for my current spawn-in-progress I (Cyans and Azures) I have used a substrate that is as mix of that Alder sawdust, small and large sized Beech wood chips and small sized Apple wood chips. Curious to see how it will turn out!


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Be yourself. Don't hurt other beings, or expect hurt yourself. Love others, and expect love yourself.

Cybesa's Ultimate woodlover project



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Re: The Official Woodlovers Thread [Re: Churpee Choozle]
    #29029598 -

Ah, I didn't know thats where the red color came from. I thought it is from specific types of pines only!
But those chips are still massive.. I feel it would take forever for mycelium to be able to web it through.. should I start using such large ones or stick to the 2-12mm sized beech chips?
(For the record, some Cyan beds of last year did fruit for their 2nd year consecutively using those chips so its working fine!)

Those beds were made with a combination of small Alder and Beech smoker chips.


--------------------
Be yourself. Don't hurt other beings, or expect hurt yourself. Love others, and expect love yourself.

Cybesa's Ultimate woodlover project



Edited by cybesa (11/19/24 02:47 PM)

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Re: The Official Woodlovers Thread [Re: cybesa] * 2
    #29029609 -

IME larger chunks work better. I use fine beech chips only to let the mycelium bridge from agar or (my preferred) LC. The larger chunks hold moisture better, are less susceptible to disturbance AND they do not rot away completely in one season. I used to make like, 10, 15 beds a year. If I forgot to 'feed' one, the myc always found refuge in larger pieces of wood. It's survival rates are greatly increased by branches and other large refugiums.


--------------------
Also I tooted churp for being a lowbrow puppet, it's so obvious.
I also added them both to my nazi watchlist in my journal, so we can watch them

-Jean-Luc Picard

Species grown so far (yes, it's a link)

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Re: The Official Woodlovers Thread [Re: Churpee Choozle]
    #29029630 -

Generally beds do not need to be fed for several years after making them, there is enough nutrition for years! Depending on the size and depth.. were yours 10-15cm deep with layered wood chips?
As for the larger chips, that sounds awesome! I will be utilizing them in the next beds!


--------------------
Be yourself. Don't hurt other beings, or expect hurt yourself. Love others, and expect love yourself.

Cybesa's Ultimate woodlover project



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Re: The Official Woodlovers Thread [Re: cybesa] * 1
    #29029676 -

That's incredible! Thanks for sharing!
I have several quarts of azurescens spawn, on rye and apricot wood chips. Several experiments at once. I will be ecstatic if I can get the stuff to fruit.

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Re: The Official Woodlovers Thread [Re: GoodGilbert]
    #29029732 -

I've only had success with Cyanescens myself as well..
Mark my words! With the beds next year, we shall both see Azurescens come to fruition.


--------------------
Be yourself. Don't hurt other beings, or expect hurt yourself. Love others, and expect love yourself.

Cybesa's Ultimate woodlover project



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Re: The Official Woodlovers Thread [Re: Tweeq]
    #29029735 -

I have a question! Did you dig out any soil, or did you just put the colonized wood chips on top?


--------------------
Be yourself. Don't hurt other beings, or expect hurt yourself. Love others, and expect love yourself.

Cybesa's Ultimate woodlover project



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Re: The Official Woodlovers Thread [Re: Churpee Choozle] * 1
    #29029897 -

cybesa said:
So what about those big pieces of mulch on top?



Tweeq said:
Lol. Yes. That's wood chips.



Mr Piggy said:
I personally wouldn’t.  Woodlovers like wood chips that are chunks about the size of your thumb.



:cookiemonster:

Unless you're making sterilized woodlover blocks in bags with those sawdust pellets, you're going to have a bad time.

Woodloving psilocybes like wood chips, like the big ol chunks you see in tweeq's beds.  Not shavings, or sawdust pellets, just woodchips. 


Churpee Choozle said:
cybesa said:
Ive recently boiled some Alder wood pellets and they have turned into VERY fine powder.. can I mix this with beech chips of various sizes to create a great bed? I'm wondering what the best size ratios are and if mixing with super fine sawdust is good or not.



Sawdust tends to sog up / dry out too quick. Plus it's essentially an industry byproduct... Wouldn't use it. You never know what else has been through that sawmill.

Compressed Alder pellets should have the same reddish color as the woodchips in Tweeq's bed (you wondered about the color). When you cut the wood, it initially has a Linden / beech kinda color, quickly turning reddish in an oxidase type reaction.

Question (perhaps for you, Mr P): I was told P. ovoideocystidiata thrives among Alder, but I don't have the right type over here. My first spawn is ready, would it benefit from being laid out under A. glutinosa or another Alnus species? Was a link ever proven? It obviously isn't a mycorrhiza forming species.



Ovoids, like most wood loving psilocybes, thrive ON alder chips or debris, not under it.  Psilocybes have no preferred plant associations, they are saprotrophs, not mycorrhizal.  Ovoids will eat just about anything besides cedar or cypress trees.


--------------------
🅃🄴🄰🄼 🄸🄷🄾🄿


New to cultivation or the shroomery?  Observe the hitchhiker's guide

The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Shroomery



Smellyhobbit said:
"Wiping a needle with isopropyl after flame sterilization is like shitting after you wipe your ass."

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Re: The Official Woodlovers Thread [Re: Mr Piggy]
    #29030153 -

I get that. I wondered if the beds would benefit from being placed within the root zone of live Alder.
The association must be based on something else, like a moisture gradient or another niche overlap


--------------------
Also I tooted churp for being a lowbrow puppet, it's so obvious.
I also added them both to my nazi watchlist in my journal, so we can watch them

-Jean-Luc Picard

Species grown so far (yes, it's a link)

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Re: The Official Woodlovers Thread [Re: Churpee Choozle] * 4
    #29030157 -

I don't live in their natural range, but I most commonly hear about them mixed in with boxelder, which is an Acer. 

When we grow mushrooms we're not trying to mimic their natural environment, we're trying to optimize their potential in an artificial environment.


--------------------
🅃🄴🄰🄼 🄸🄷🄾🄿


New to cultivation or the shroomery?  Observe the hitchhiker's guide

The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Shroomery



Smellyhobbit said:
"Wiping a needle with isopropyl after flame sterilization is like shitting after you wipe your ass."

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Re: The Official Woodlovers Thread [Re: Churpee Choozle] * 4
    #29030178 -

Churpee Choozle said:
I get that. I wondered if the beds would benefit from being placed within the root zone of live Alder.
The association must be based on something else, like a moisture gradient or another niche overlap



You're making the most common mistake of over-thinking things. Saprophytic fungi do not benefit from any live plants at all, other than the plants creating a shady humid microclimate. There is no "golden substrate" species of woodchips that works better for primary decomposers in any real measurable way, only a select few species that you shouldn't use due to natural anti-fungal properties. And WL's will even eat those eventually if mixed in with any old regular chips.

The key to WL's is patch location, substrate depth, shade, humidity, and consistent fruiting temps for a long enough period to initiate pinning. You will not get flushes like Tweeq's without those parameters being dialed in. And the most important part is your culture.... I am going to assume that Tweeq has worked his culture enough to properly clone for consistently even canopies. His flushes are not just 1st or 2nd generation MS culture... There is no magical shortcut to getting yields like his, it takes years of culturing because there are very few stable isolated strains available like with cubes. You have to understand that every new bed you make from cloned tissue to evolve your strain takes around 18 months before you're ready to clone the next generation. Learn patience.

Mr Piggy said:
When we grow mushrooms we're not trying to mimic their natural environment, we're trying to optimize their potential in an artificial environment.



As to what Piggy says here, I completely disagree. "Artificial" environment is indoors, not outdoors. Outdoors is their "natural" environment, and their natural substrate is forest litter (sticks and leaves). They already grow "naturally" where conditions are optimal for them, that's why they evolved over thousands of years to need their specific requirements. What we do by building our outdoor beds is attempt to mimic their optimal NATURAL environment outside of their native geographic locations.

Yes, there are several people in here attempting to grow WL's in "artificial" indoor environments. But that is not the main focus of this group. People really need to stop being so arrogant as to believe we as humans can do things better than Nature, especially when everything we do as a species is an attempt to mimic what Nature already created long before it created us. Even a fully "artificial environment" is still just attempting to mimic natural environments in a controlled fashion. But as long as your beds are outdoors, you don't control shit....

Edited by ghiajake (11/20/24 02:27 AM)

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Re: The Official Woodlovers Thread [Re: ghiajake]
    #29030213 -

I truly enjoyed the challenge and felt immensely gratified with successes the 11 years in the forest that outdoor was what I could primarily do.

But it is a humble quiet thing of following nature yourself year after year and you do at least get a feel for that. I always envied florida and oregon....arkansas is not easy on mushrooms and not only mimic, but you have to help nature along a little in many cases. But its every bit as satisfying as getting a canopy in a tray or a tub and you feel accomplished in natural magic if its a straw patch of ecuadors.


"People really need to stop being so arrogant as to believe we as humans can do things better than Nature, especially when everything we do as a species is an attempt to mimic what Nature already created long before it created us. Even a fully "artificial environment" is still just attempting to mimic natural environments in a controlled fashion. But as long as your beds are outdoors, you don't control shit...."


--------------------
Yours in the Natural State Land of Enchantment!

"Sometimes the only way for a man to find true happiness is to take drugs in a group" - Cochise

No makin funna my pomes!

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Re: The Official Woodlovers Thread [Re: curenado]
    #29030265 -

Still not seeing any signs of fruiting of my psilocybe cyanescens beds, but there is vigorous mycelium growth and the beds are a solid cake (I will post pics when I get the chance).

I saw the post about putting an empty Minton bin upside down over the bed to increase humidity + initiate fruiting.  How well does this work? How long should it take for me to see any signs of fruiting after this? Any help is appreciated!


--------------------
FYI: I am having uploading pics to Shroomery (says the file is too big, even with small screenshots) so any pics I post are linked to another site

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Re: The Official Woodlovers Thread [Re: ghiajake]
    #29030271 -

ghiajake said:
Churpee Choozle said:
I get that. I wondered if the beds would benefit from being placed within the root zone of live Alder.
The association must be based on something else, like a moisture gradient or another niche overlap



You're making the most common mistake of over-thinking things. Saprophytic fungi do not benefit from any live plants at all, other than the plants creating a shady humid microclimate. There is no "golden substrate" species of woodchips that works better for primary decomposers in any real measurable way, only a select few species that you shouldn't use due to natural anti-fungal properties. And WL's will even eat those eventually if mixed in with any old regular chips.

The key to WL's is patch location, substrate depth, shade, humidity, and consistent fruiting temps for a long enough period to initiate pinning. You will not get flushes like Tweeq's without those parameters being dialed in. And the most important part is your culture.... I am going to assume that Tweeq has worked his culture enough to properly clone for consistently even canopies. His flushes are not just 1st or 2nd generation MS culture... There is no magical shortcut to getting yields like his, it takes years of culturing because there are very few stable isolated strains available like with cubes. You have to understand that every new bed you make from cloned tissue to evolve your strain takes around 18 months before you're ready to clone the next generation. Learn patience.

Mr Piggy said:
When we grow mushrooms we're not trying to mimic their natural environment, we're trying to optimize their potential in an artificial environment.



As to what Piggy says here, I completely disagree. "Artificial" environment is indoors, not outdoors. Outdoors is their "natural" environment, and their natural substrate is forest litter (sticks and leaves). They already grow "naturally" where conditions are optimal for them, that's why they evolved over thousands of years to need their specific requirements. What we do by building our outdoor beds is attempt to mimic their optimal NATURAL environment outside of their native geographic locations.

Yes, there are several people in here attempting to grow WL's in "artificial" indoor environments. But that is not the main focus of this group. People really need to stop being so arrogant as to believe we as humans can do things better than Nature, especially when everything we do as a species is an attempt to mimic what Nature already created long before it created us. Even a fully "artificial environment" is still just attempting to mimic natural environments in a controlled fashion. But as long as your beds are outdoors, you don't control shit....



Well said.
I do understand the basics of growing woodlovers, my first really successful P. azurescens patch fruited in 2013. It's just that I'm completely new to ovoideocystidiata as a species. Shit on me for it if it pleases you, but I think of agar work as a necessary, but really boring activity. I'm currently awaiting germination of subaeruginosa and the IWL, it takes sooo long before those can go to LC. On the other hand, ovoideocystidiata is colonizing madly and I want to get my hands wet with it. I think of it when I start the chipper (this would be great substrate!), take a shower (how about making beds on the riverside), hang in my ropes (that spot looks sweet! What if I'd dump some chips there), whatever. So yeah, I'm overthinking it!

Mr. P... I was completely misinformed. An Acer instead of an Alnus... Shame on me.


--------------------
Also I tooted churp for being a lowbrow puppet, it's so obvious.
I also added them both to my nazi watchlist in my journal, so we can watch them

-Jean-Luc Picard

Species grown so far (yes, it's a link)

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Re: The Official Woodlovers Thread [Re: ghiajake]
    #29030372 -

I gotta say I completely agree with everything. Glad to see that someone understands just how mighty nature is, and we have to live in harmony with it, not attempt to act like we are Nature's sentient overlords.

Of course, cultivation is awesome and really fun experiments!
We just need to be aware of the big things.


--------------------
Be yourself. Don't hurt other beings, or expect hurt yourself. Love others, and expect love yourself.

Cybesa's Ultimate woodlover project



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Re: The Official Woodlovers Thread [Re: ghiajake]
    #29030377 -

We (the human growers) are also a result of bajillion years of cell division. If we are not the sentient top of nature, none is.


--------------------
Willpower is the one true virtue


Edited by smalltalk_canceled (11/20/24 06:08 PM)

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Re: The Official Woodlovers Thread [Re: ghiajake] * 1
    #29030379 -

ghiajake said:
As to what Piggy says here, I completely disagree. "Artificial" environment is indoors, not outdoors.



If a species is endemic to a geographic location/region, then placed into a hitherto unreported location, within an unnaturally occurring habitat (man made), the location is most certainly artificial. You cannot take an orangutan from the Congo, place it in an outdoor habitat anywhere else on earth (man made or otherwise) and then argue it's environment is natural. The same applies to any organism.

ghiajake said:
What we do by building our outdoor beds is attempt to mimic their optimal NATURAL environment outside of their native geographic locations.




The language reveals the artificial nature of this imitation habitat.

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Re: The Official Woodlovers Thread [Re: Stipe-n Cap] * 4
    #29030459 -

Ahh yes, since we are fruiting them in their completely natural habitats of chip beds.

Yes, I remember when they unearthed the first fossilized BC1000XL.  Those chippers and their co-evolution with Psilocybe species really set us up well.  Thank you nature and evolution!

:batlol:


--------------------
🅃🄴🄰🄼 🄸🄷🄾🄿


New to cultivation or the shroomery?  Observe the hitchhiker's guide

The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Shroomery



Smellyhobbit said:
"Wiping a needle with isopropyl after flame sterilization is like shitting after you wipe your ass."

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Re: The Official Woodlovers Thread [Re: Stipe-n Cap] * 1
    #29030467 -

Stipe-n Cap said:
You cannot take an orangutan from the Congo Borneo



:awehigh:


--------------------
🅃🄴🄰🄼 🄸🄷🄾🄿


New to cultivation or the shroomery?  Observe the hitchhiker's guide

The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Shroomery



Smellyhobbit said:
"Wiping a needle with isopropyl after flame sterilization is like shitting after you wipe your ass."

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Re: The Official Woodlovers Thread [Re: Mr Piggy] * 1
    #29030474 -

Ah, you got me. :lol:

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