ballsalsa said:

Because votes held under foreign military occupation are absolutely not legit.

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unam sanctum said:

The government he upholds as a moral standard bearer would imprison him and sentence to hard labor, maybe even poison his underwear for saying the same things about them if he was a citizen there.

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chopstick said:

ballsalsa said:

chopstick said:

Why is it completely impossible for you to simply accept that the Crimean referendum might have been legit?

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Because votes held under foreign military occupation are absolutely not legit.

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Right, I forgot votes only count when it is convenient for US foreign policy interests for them to count.

In all other cases, nobody is allowed to determine their own fate without the United States giving them permission.

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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

ballsalsa said:

Because votes held under foreign military occupation are absolutely not legit.

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Russia was already in Crimea because of their military base, and no one there saw Russian troops at the polling stations.

Again, if you have any evidence people were being forced to vote against their will, please share it.  That's simply not the case.

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koods said:

No. That’s a rumor mill and you know it. In the other thread you said he’s been missing for a a few days and “presumed dead.”

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Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

unam sanctum said:

The government he upholds as a moral standard bearer would imprison him and sentence to hard labor, maybe even poison his underwear for saying the same things about them if he was a citizen there.

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That might(?) have been true back in Stalin's times, but it is certainly no longer true today.  When I visited Russia about 5 years ago, I witnessed an anti-Putin protest, and saw CNN, Fox, MSNBC, and other American channels criticize him all the time.  It's allowed.

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ballsalsa said:

Again, if you have any evidence people were being forced to vote against their will, please share it.  That's simply not the case.

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unam sanctum said:

That's why people aren't allowed to call the Ukrainian invasion a war, right?

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unam sanctum said:

The recent crackdown on independent media?

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unam sanctum said:

Why have I witnessed numerous anti-war protesters arrested over the last couple of months?

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The Ecstatic said:

The US being hypocrites doesn’t make other countries good by default.

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ballsalsa said:

You keep skirting the question.
What is selection bias?
Could a referendum under occupation and subsequent polling be subject to it? How about a nosy foreigner? How does voluntary self-selection play into selection bias?

I know you know and I know why you don't want to answer.

I also know that by your own estimation we can have 95% confidence that as many as 18% of post occupation Crimeans may not believe the results of the referendum to be legitimate.

We really have no way to know how such a vote would have played out pre-invasion but it seems safe to conjecture that an invasion and occupation by the nation they were voting to join had some cooling effect on opposition voters.

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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

The only 'crackdown' is that independent media are no longer allowed to spread intentionally fake news, and after this law passed, Western media voluntarily left.

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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

unam sanctum said:

That's why people aren't allowed to call the Ukrainian invasion a war, right?

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That rule was passed before the war actually started, and when Russia thought Ukraine wasn't going to fight back.  Even RT.com is calling it an invasion now.

unam sanctum said:

The recent crackdown on independent media?

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The only 'crackdown' is that independent media are no longer allowed to spread intentionally fake news, and after this law passed, Western media voluntarily left.

unam sanctum said:

Why have I witnessed numerous anti-war protesters arrested over the last couple of months?

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Because you need a permit to hold a rally in most parts of Russia.

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chopstick said:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

The only 'crackdown' is that independent media are no longer allowed to spread intentionally fake news, and after this law passed, Western media voluntarily left.

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"We can't lie anymore, time to get the fuck out of the country! Damn you Putin!"

-The Western Media

Honestly, the fact that Russia even tolerated the presence of these scum in the first place is pretty mind blowing.

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ballsalsa said:

You keep skirting the question.
What is selection bias?
Could a referendum under occupation and subsequent polling be subject to it? How about a nosy foreigner? How does voluntary self-selection play into selection bias?

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ballsalsa said:

I also know that by your own estimation we can have 95% confidence that as many as 18% of post occupation Crimeans may not believe the results of the referendum to be legitimate.

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ballsalsa said:

We really have no way to know how such a vote would have played out pre-invasion but it seems safe to conjecture that an invasion and occupation by the nation they were voting to join had some cooling effect on opposition voters.

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ballsalsa said:

You already posted video of Putin admitting that his very polite, little green men were off thier bases and occupying territory outside the scope of the treaty. You had a long discussion about it with shivas.wisdom. Putin said he had to invade to protect the integrity of the referendum.

Who should I believe, him or you?

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