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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: chopstick]
    #27742738 -

chopstick said:
unam sanctum said:
Psilynut2 said:
What is Biden supposed to do about Russia ?


launch the troops.  escalate this into a true international conflict.  it's only a matter of time anyways. 


So now you've gone from bashing me to just straight up advocating for ww3 and a global thermonuclear holocaust over a conflict which you hardly even understand.

:rofl:


Yeah, we disagree.  Like I said- it's only a matter of time. Best to attack when your opponent is weakened.  Your comrade is the only one cat calling the nukes to be fair.  You'd have us sit back and watch the westward march.

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: unam sanctum] * 1
    #27742799 -

unam sanctum said:
chopstick said:
unam sanctum said:
Psilynut2 said:
What is Biden supposed to do about Russia ?


launch the troops.  escalate this into a true international conflict.  it's only a matter of time anyways. 


So now you've gone from bashing me to just straight up advocating for ww3 and a global thermonuclear holocaust over a conflict which you hardly even understand.

:rofl:


Yeah, we disagree.  Like I said- it's only a matter of time. Best to attack when your opponent is weakened.  Your comrade is the only one cat calling the nukes to be fair.  You'd have us sit back and watch the westward march.


Attempting to protect the murderous Banderite regime in Ukraine is not worth ww3 and the deaths of hundreds of millions, or billions, of people.

The fact you truly believe Russia is your enemy shows nothing other than that the propaganda has worked on you.

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: chopstick]
    #27742870 -

By your logic someone should invade the US to rid us of NAZI sympathizers, and it would be justified.

Why not let millions of Ukrainians be executed or subjected to famine like they were in the early thirties?  Or do you deny that too?

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: unam sanctum] * 1
    #27742880 -

unam sanctum said:
By your logic someone should invade the US to rid us of NAZI sympathizers, and it would be justified.

Why not let millions of Ukrainians be executed or subjected to famine like they were in the early thirties?  Or do you deny that too?


The difference is there are no major neo-nazi groups controlling the entirety of the US military, intelligence services, government, and working around the clock to abduct/torture/execute people speaking out against the regime, like what the Ukrainian SBU just did to Gonzalo Lira.

The fact that you are comparing the present situation to the 1930's speaks volumes. Russia is providing food and medical aid to the areas under their control. Furthermore, they aren't executing civilians. Only a minority of Azov types convicted of warcrimes might be executed, but even then they would most likely be imprisoned.

What you brought up is not at all comparable to what is actually happening in Ukraine.

It seems you are hopped up on a combo of war-time hysteria and propaganda. Nobody reasonable is advocating for ww3 over Ukraine, except maybe Zelensky and some of his fellow warcriminals whom are desperate to save their own asses, but they are far from reasonable. More like pathetic, really.

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: chopstick] * 1
    #27742908 -

Ok, I'll bite.  Not sure why I bother, but nonetheless.

1. The link you posted is bullshit.  And it's crucial to your first claim.

2. Russia is clearly bombing civilian populations/structures across Ukraine. There's no doubt civilians have been summarily executed and raped. Press time gestures or displays of "aid" do not make up for that.  There is a plethora of video evidence and should you request it I will source it- with condemnation for your deliberate blindness to fact.

3. What I have brought up is directly comparable to today's Ukraine.  This is history repeating itself. 

4. People said the same thing of pro war Americans in early WWII, prior to the US entry.  I am very reasonable.  I advocated against the Iraq and Afghanistan wars (notice how I'm allowed to call them wars).  That was when I was in 5th grade.  I understood it made no sense to enter prolonged occupations of countries that were long-term invincible to such attacks.  Unlike many world leaders I have a certain amount of common sense.  Yet I do enjoy living in a place where I can openly disagree without fear of retribution.  Here's another chance for you to disagree.

I will advocate for western military intervention until I'm out of breath.  I mean, be honest with us- was our intervention in WWII needed or not? If it was why is intervention now not also needed?

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: unam sanctum]
    #27742981 -

unam sanctum said:
The link you posted is bullshit.  And it's crucial to your first claim.


I don't understand.  What's bullshit about it?

unam sanctum said:
Russia is clearly bombing civilian populations/structures across Ukraine.


Because Azov is hiding in hospitals, schools, apartment buildings, etc., and using civilians as human shields.  LOTS of witness reports that confirm this.

unam sanctum said:
There's no doubt civilians have been summarily executed and raped. Press time gestures or displays of "aid" do not make up for that.  There is a plethora of video evidence and should you request it I will source it- with condemnation for your deliberate blindness to fact.


There  is even more video evidence that Azov is killing civilians in Donbas.  But don't ask me to post it because that gets censored from Youtube, Twitter, and Facebook.  But you can find it on Telegram.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #27743096 -

Are you his fucking dad or something? 

Are you even serious? The "source" he posted is some bullshit blog called The Saker - Stop the Empire"s War on Russia. That's not news.  It's third rate shit propaganda.  Junk. No wonder you two are so far down your rabbit holes, relying on sites like that to inform you.

So you have evidence but don't ask you to post it because it's censored, but you know where to find it and can't post a link.  Sounds legit.

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: unam sanctum] * 1
    #27743120 -

There's no point. They both believe that the CIAs attempted coup in Ukraine is morally bankrupt but can't get their head around Russia's coup being morally bankrupt.


--------------------
Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

I’m sorry it had to be me.

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: chopstick]
    #27743148 -

chopstick said:
koods said:
No ex president is still holding cult rallies


Be prepared to watch in amazement as he magically becomes president again in 2.5 years.

biden will win 2024  Americans are way to sensitive an dont want there safe space invaded 🤣

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Mach z 800]
    #27743278 -

Joe Biden’s skeleton lives rent free in the graveyard that is your head.


--------------------
Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

I’m sorry it had to be me.

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: christopera] * 1
    #27743362 -

christopera said:
There's no point. They both believe that the CIAs attempted coup in Ukraine is morally bankrupt but can't get their head around Russia's coup being morally bankrupt.


It’s not so different than the trap laid at home when it comes to the two major political parties. Sure they’re both corrupt right wing groups but what’s the conclusion of acknowledging that? Idk but whatever it is it’s scary, so choose a side and believe it’s the good one.


The one argument I could accept about this conflict is if someone is an accelerationist, and they believe that Russia waging a direct confrontation against US hegemony will bring about larger conflicts that will ultimately result in a world that ends up being better. I think it’s a pretty stupid idea, because usually in history when a power vacuum forms the worst people imaginable fill it, but it’s at least consistent.


--------------------

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: christopera] * 1
    #27743407 -

christopera said:
There's no point. They both believe that the CIAs attempted coup in Ukraine is morally bankrupt but can't get their head around Russia's coup being morally bankrupt.

joe biden should keep the Easter bunny around to keep him out of trouble 🤣

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: unam sanctum] * 1
    #27743467 -

unam sanctum said:
Ok, I'll bite.  Not sure why I bother, but nonetheless.

1. The link you posted is bullshit.  And it's crucial to your first claim.

2. Russia is clearly bombing civilian populations/structures across Ukraine. There's no doubt civilians have been summarily executed and raped. Press time gestures or displays of "aid" do not make up for that.  There is a plethora of video evidence and should you request it I will source it- with condemnation for your deliberate blindness to fact.

3. What I have brought up is directly comparable to today's Ukraine.  This is history repeating itself. 

4. People said the same thing of pro war Americans in early WWII, prior to the US entry.  I am very reasonable.  I advocated against the Iraq and Afghanistan wars (notice how I'm allowed to call them wars).  That was when I was in 5th grade.  I understood it made no sense to enter prolonged occupations of countries that were long-term invincible to such attacks.  Unlike many world leaders I have a certain amount of common sense.  Yet I do enjoy living in a place where I can openly disagree without fear of retribution.  Here's another chance for you to disagree.

I will advocate for western military intervention until I'm out of breath.  I mean, be honest with us- was our intervention in WWII needed or not? If it was why is intervention now not also needed?



1. It's not bullshit, you're just too closed-minded to admit that your favorite neo-nazi regime in Ukraine has been executing anyone and everyone accused of dissent for years, Gonzalo Lira being their latest victim. How sad that you would stick up for this pathetic and filthy regime.

2. Russia is only bombing civilian buildings if it has been confirmed they are being used for military storage or as firing points against Russian forces. They are not going out of their way to hit civilian infrastructure like the US did in Iraq and Afghanistan.

3. You only continue to reinforce your own delusions. The Russian operation is not at all comparable to previous events where millions and millions of people died. Not only is there no famine, but as I said Russia is in-fact supplying humanitarian aid in areas under their control just to *ensure* people in these areas can continue to live a relatively normal life. I don't know why you want to make-believe that Russia is going to slaughter millions of civilians for no reason, but it's not happening.

4. So you advocated against Iraq/Afghanistan but now you want an unnecessary global nuclear holocaust just to stick up for a Neo-Nazi regime in Ukraine guilty of countless warcrimes and crimes against humanity. Yes, how reasonable of you.


Sadly you only prove how delusional you are with every post you make. I can only assume you are blinded - like many others - by an illogical feeling of hatred towards Russia, a feeling most likely influenced by the massive anti-Russian propaganda campaign that is going on right now.

This isn't WW2 and Russia isn't Nazi Germany. Their invasion of Ukraine is unfortunate, but it would have been avoided if the Obama regime hadn't done a coup in 2014 Ukraine on the Maidan square that set the stage for this to happen. The regime installed by Obama and Victoria Nuland has been incredibly brutal towards its own people, the SBU since taken under the control of Neo-Nazi ideology has killed and tortured thousands of people merely because of their personal viewpoints. You can't express your opinion in Ukraine without potentially being raided at 2 am and summarily executed. Furthermore, they massacred thousands of their own citizens in Donbass throughout 2014-2015 via direct military force.

And not only that, but Ukraine had 8 years to abide by the Minsk agreements. Eight years Russia gave them the chance for peace. Ukraine rejected it and was preparing an all-out offensive on Donbass, the "final solution" to wipe them all out for good. Ukraine rejected peace and gave Russia no choice but to respond.

This war was avoidable, true. Unfortunately both Ukraine and their backers - the US/NATO - did everything in their power to ensure that there would be no peace in Ukraine under any circumstances. They set this up to happen. The US in particular *wanted* Russia to invade to justify the sanctions response and drag Russia into "another Afghanistan" as they put it. Washington DC is more than willing to sacrifice the lives of every single Ukrainian just to harm Russia.

The fact that you are going along with their plot, have fallen for their lies and are now advocating for ww3 is just sad. Not only that, but it's extraordinarily selfish. You would sacrifice the lives of tens of millions of Americans, just to defend the neo-nazi US regime change project in Ukraine. Beyond a shadow of a doubt, that is pure insanity.

If you want to fight Russia so bad, then feel free to go to Ukraine by yourself. But don't expect the American people to volunteer their children as sacrifices in a nuclear war that nobody wants except for hardcore neo-cons and neo-liberals.

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: unam sanctum] * 1
    #27743470 -

unam sanctum said:
Are you his fucking dad or something? 

Are you even serious? The "source" he posted is some bullshit blog called The Saker - Stop the Empire"s War on Russia. That's not news.  It's third rate shit propaganda.  Junk. No wonder you two are so far down your rabbit holes, relying on sites like that to inform you.

So you have evidence but don't ask you to post it because it's censored, but you know where to find it and can't post a link.  Sounds legit.


There are MANY other sources reporting on Gonzalo Lira's disappearance.

It's a fact that Ukraine has abducted, likely tortured and possibly executed him. All for the "crime" of exposing the truth about Zelensky's insane and murderous, sadistic regime.

These are the people you're advocating ww3 over to protect. When in reality, they deserve to be tried for warcrimes & mass murder and either executed or imprisoned for life.

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: unam sanctum]
    #27743493 -

unam sanctum said:
Are you even serious? The "source" he posted is some bullshit blog called The Saker - Stop the Empire"s War on Russia. That's not news.  It's third rate shit propaganda.  Junk.


You don't believe the US is interested in fighting a proxy war against Russia?  :flowstone:

The Saker does a very good job of explaining his position, but you seem to have no interest in reading.  If you could discuss something he says that isn't true, that would be fantastic, but I won't hold my breath.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: christopera]
    #27743497 -

christopera said:
There's no point. They both believe that the CIAs attempted coup in Ukraine is morally bankrupt but can't get their head around Russia's coup being morally bankrupt.


There wasn't a coup in Crimea.  The people there were Russian and wanted to return to Russia, and they VOTED to return to Russia.  Follow up polling confirmed they wanted to return to Russia.

The coup in Ukraine, however, wasn't done at the ballot box, it was done by Far Right nationalists.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27743514 -

Whether it was done at the ballot box or not is irrelevant. Do you honestly believe bourgeois democracy equates to the will of the people? Weren’t you a Bernie guy at one point?

“Democratic” coups happen all the time, we actually pulled one off in Pakistan like last week. The liberal institutions of the state are either legitimate or they aren’t. There will always be a territory that was unfairly taken from someone. Living in a settler colonial nation in a state we literally just stole from Mexico, you should understand this. We can’t just pick an arbitrary starting point for when the ownership of Crimea matters, nations that laid claim to it prior to Russia simply don’t exist anymore. Hell, the Russia that claimed it in 1921 doesn’t exist anymore.


--------------------

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #27743518 -

And here's ANOTHER guy who had his daughter abducted by the SBU for God only knows what reason:

https://twitter.com/i/status/1516138545919905793

The SBU are sick fucks. Going after people's family members now? Meanwhile Zelensky doesn't give a shit, he hardly even has any control over the SBU's activities. Doubtless, they would kill him too if he tried to pursue a deal with Russia.

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #27743663 -

The Ecstatic said:
Whether it was done at the ballot box or not is irrelevant. Do you honestly believe bourgeois democracy equates to the will of the people? Weren’t you a Bernie guy at one point?


Of course not, and Bernie proved that.  But in this case, I travelled to Crimea specifically to find out what the people felt, and I learned beyond a doubt that the people of Crimea did not want to live under the US installed Ukrainian government that had just been overrun with Far Right people.

The Ecstatic said:
“Democratic” coups happen all the time, we actually pulled one off in Pakistan like last week.


I don't think the people of Pakistan got to vote, did they?

The Ecstatic said:
We can’t just pick an arbitrary starting point for when the ownership of Crimea matters, nations that laid claim to it prior to Russia simply don’t exist anymore. Hell, the Russia that claimed it in 1921 doesn’t exist anymore.


What do you think we should we use to determine ownership then?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27743690 -

Ideally: abolish it

Realistically: does not matter

Like shiva said: no war but class war.

And I’m not convinced that wasting time siding with any of the virulently anti-communist groups in this conflict advances class war, whether that’s NATO (the organization created to explicitly oppose communism), the far right orgs on the ground that NATO funded after WW2, or Putin (who thinks communism destroyed Russia and longs for the autocratic nationalism of the Tsars). Nor am I convinced that your genuine position is whatever is best for the people, because stoking a nuclear war in Europe doesn’t seem very good. Maybe you’ve got a different perspective, but, assuming you DO have some vaguely left ideal of worker emancipation from capitalism, how in your opinion does this conflict advance that cause?


--------------------

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