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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Asante]
    #27475219 -

You still haven't understood what I was telling you in that post, but I assure you it wasn't a claim that its not a real virus or that people aren't dying. Again you are arguing against a fiction, not a real person.

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Byrain] * 1
    #27475241 -

mit·i·ga·tion
/ˌmidəˈɡāSH(ə)n/
Learn to pronounce
noun
the action of reducing the severity, seriousness, or painfulness of something.


Wait sp your not real either.?

I thought I was the only one :blush:

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Byrain]
    #27475273 -

Byrain said:
it wasn't a claim that its not a real virus or that people aren't dying.



I said nothing of the sort.


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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Asante] * 1
    #27475300 -

Then I am sure what you are trying to get at? I did not argue "mitigation" in that post, but "context". Saying something happens 10x more or less than something without knowing that the original value is spreading confusion. And with something that seriously harms people like C19 unnecessary confusion will only spread fear, but I suspect that was the point of the article. The media is entertainment in the guise of news and as has already been said, "Fear sells".

The best approach to any epidemic or pandemic is a calm, rational and data oriented approach. Is there something that you do not understand here?

I was honestly surprised how much of that was at the FDA video hummingbird shared while the government, corporations and media offer so little of it, too bad pfizer was the only party with such broken audio that no questions could be answered.

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Byrain]
    #27475319 -

You should look at the number of people who actually get the disease vs the number wo get hospitalized and die.

I mean, if you look at how likely you are to get a fentanyl OD, don't you loook at the population of recreational opioid addicts instead of at the whole population?

Thats mitigation, making the number of fentanyl OD's seem smaller by showing a percentage of a population of which the overwhelming majority who never even used opioids.

Many more people in America will get their first covid, than ever have had covid, so many more people will die than have died now.

If you look people who had it vs people who died its 1-2% - that is ginormous.


--------------------
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personal empowerment for the world

Onehomemission.org
truly make a difference

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Byrain] * 1
    #27475389 -

Byrain said:
The best approach to any epidemic or pandemic is a calm, rational and data oriented approach.


The best approach is to vaccinate it into a non-issue, which is/was entirely possible. The "calm, rational and data oriented approach" is to get the vaccine, that's been obvious for almost a year now.

A significant number of americans literally wouldn't be able to correctly interpret a bar graph if you showed them one. The things you've cited as being misrepresentations are just statistics that it seems you don't have a great grasp on.

There have been cases of risks being overhyped just as there have been plenty of cases of Fox/Newsmaxxx/OAN etc. vastly downplaying the risks and pushing conspiracies, today's media is largely entertainment and will lean towards whatever generates views from their target audience, an audience which makes up a very small percentage of the country and is dwindling every day.

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Asante]
    #27475442 -

Asante said:
You should look at the number of people who actually get the disease vs the number wo get hospitalized and die.

I mean, if you look at how likely you are to get a fentanyl OD, don't you loook at the population of recreational opioid addicts instead of at the whole population?

Thats mitigation, making the number of fentanyl OD's seem smaller by showing a percentage of a population of which the overwhelming majority who never even used opioids.

Many more people in America will get their first covid, than ever have had covid, so many more people will die than have died now.

If you look people who had it vs people who died its 1-2% - that is ginormous.


You were right the first time you made that point, maybe you forgot my response to that where I corrected the number to reflect the total covid cases rather than total population? Yes, that was a silly error on my part.

While you are totally right that 1-2% is not a small number by any means, it is still a low enough number that only a minority of people will die. If you consider that a significant number of people who do die have preexisting health conditions, compromised immunity or other health issues like obesity this further reduces the number for healthy adults. Can you say with any certainty that the chances of severe side effects is less than the low chance a healthy person may die or have long lasting covid symptoms? How about for people with a natural immunity? As far as I am aware pfizer has been unable to tell us exactly what level an immunity is sufficient.

The other questions are how effective are the vaccines? What vaccine is most effective? Why are people still dying at higher rates in heavily inoculated countries, but far less in countries with high levels of natural immunity or low vaccine rates? I can't say I have made up my mind and am waiting for further data. The one thing have seen strong evidence for is that pharmaceutical monopolies (The Medical Industrial Complex) have made a lot of money selling vaccines while offering very little in the way of transparency.

If you feel you are at risk and are not worried about the above then you can get a vaccine, but why force anyone else when you wish to protect yourself? I have not once said anyone should not get a vaccine. Only that am skeptical to what level the vaccine would resolve the pandemic even if everyone complies. You will also never get everyone to comply unless these hard questions can be answered in depth with long term studies. Inoculating entire populations first come first served without a control is a piss poor excuse for a study.  With force it will only turn it into a matter of civil disobedience.

@feevers, I don't think you have said anything that applies to me, maybe you are confusing me with someone else? I am also curious if you would also say that to the FDA doctors that voted 16 to 2 in favor of not mandating the third booster shot for everyone 16 and older? Many of their concerns seemed reasonable to me, what did you think?

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Byrain]
    #27475466 -

I still don't know what argument you're making. The data on the vaccine is incredibly clear and transparent, everything from government agencies to universities to local hospitals and independent research groups are coming up with the same obvious data... almost everyone dying and the vast, vast majority of hospitalizations are occurring in the unvaccinated. No one is seeing or reporting any sort of uptick in serious vaccine side effects.

The FDA doesn't recommend a booster yet because the data on how effective boosters are isn't really sufficient enough to show that they're necessary for non at risk people. That's not because boosters don't work, it's because people without boosters are still highly protected and there isn't enough research yet on the people who've received the boosters for obvious reasons. I'm guessing everyone will be able to get a Pfizer booster within a couple months, maybe much earlier depending on how the white house plays it.

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: feevers]
    #27475484 -

What part do you not understand? Can you share this data that addresses any of the questions I have raised? I suspect we watched different videos because that did not seem like the concerns they raised.

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Byrain] * 1
    #27475557 -

Quote:
Can you say with any certainty that the chances of severe side effects is less than the low chance a healthy person may die or have long lasting covid symptoms?


In counties with high vaccination rates, have deaths skyrocketed from severe side effect cases? Or have they plummeted? Are hospitals full of side effect cases? Or of unvaxxed people?

You seem to be basing your opinion on: 1. but Sweden and 2. but Israel ...instead of getting lost in the weeds of the complexities of other countries, if you look county by county in the US the picture is pretty clear. More vax=Less death, end of story.

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Lynnch]
    #27475623 -

Quote:
How does this analogy even work? Why 10 antivax nurses and doctors? Where are all of the vaccinated staff? Playing hooky? Dead? Why are they scrambling around if its nearly empty? Why does this make you giggle? You really aren't making much sense.


I'd tell you, if one had been made


There is much you have to understand before I can answer the question of what it makes me giggle.

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Lynnch]
    #27475659 -

Sweden and Israel are two remarkable data points, but not the only ones. What do you think about Sweden flattening their death curve among both vaccinated and unvaccinated while the Israel death toll is climbing a relatively steeper rate? Even if its only the unvaccinated why is Sweden different? How about the Eastern European countries with relatively low vaccine rollout and low levels of infection? How about the APOC countries like Nigeria that have minimal levels of death and infection compared to the rest of the world despite being the most populous African country?

If the only thing that matters is local data then you are going to miss a lot of information. As it so happens a significant fraction of the cases and deaths in CA are in Los Angeles and other southern CA counties which are some of the more vaccinated areas as well as the most populous.

https://covid19.ca.gov/vaccination-progress-data/
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/california/
https://worldpopulationreview.com/us-counties/states/ca

I wonder if they followed Sweden's intentional or Nigeria's unintentional examples would this not be such a big problem? And why should people who live in less populated areas that are at next to no risk be vaccinated by mandate?

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Byrain] * 2
    #27475672 -

Sweden and Israel are in totally different parts of the world. It’s pretty clear that the virus spreads well during the summer in places where it is extremely hot. There’s also decent evidence that living in third world conditions actually helps prevent transmission, probably due to a reliance on natural airflow instead of HVAC systems that recycle air.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: koods]
    #27475679 -

Aside from demonstrating terrible results, I’m not sure why we always have to talk about Sweden.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: koods]
    #27475693 -

Its hotter in Nigeria than it is in Israel.

https://www.climatestotravel.com/climate/nigeria
https://www.climatestotravel.com/climate/israel

Israel has a fraction of the population and more cases and death.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/israel/
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/nigeria/

Tunisia a non-APOCcountry has more death than either of them.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/tunisia/

Air flow might make a difference, but I am very doubtful the difference is that significant.

koods said:
Aside from demonstrating terrible results, I’m not sure why we always have to talk about Sweden.


Meanwhile Sweden recognized early on that pandora's box was opened and chose a strategy that legitimately seems to have paid off in the long term. if their strategy back fired on them the argument would be very different.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Byrain] * 2
    #27475713 -

Sweden’s strategy has resulted in a situation where 8x as many people died in the country per capita than its neighbors. I find it amazing anyone can look at Sweden and think they handled it well.

Stop focusing so much on the data from disparate countries. Do you really think the data in Nigeria is worth anything?

The US is running an experiment in the real world consequences of low vs high vax rates and the data so far is pretty unequivocal


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: feevers] * 3
    #27475739 -

feevers said:
Byrain said:
The best approach to any epidemic or pandemic is a calm, rational and data oriented approach.


The best approach is to vaccinate it into a non-issue, which is/was entirely possible. The "calm, rational and data oriented approach" is to get the vaccine, that's been obvious for almost a year now.




Fucking hit the nail on the head.

Vaccines have been a giant boon to the health of mankind.

The fact people don't know this shit, just goes to show how fucking effective they are.

Diseases wiped out or nearly:

Polio, Tetanus, Hep B, Hep A, Rubella, Hib, Measles, Whooping Cough,  Pneumococcal,  Rotavirus, Mumps, Chicken pox, Diphtheria

Never heard of most of these? GOOD, BECAUSE VACCINES FUCKING WORK. They've been working for a long time now. This isn't new technology, shit this stuff has been mandated for the military and the general population for a long time and guess what? It's highly effective.

The fact our health is politicized by republicans just goes to show who's side they really are on.


--------------------
Lead by example, words mean little when your actions don't reflect what you say.

Spread kindness, love, empathy, compassion.

Learn from mistakes. Try and do better. Each day is a new day, try to make it a better one.

Coconut and Avocado is awesome for the skin.

MIND OVER MATTER

:mushroom2::lsd:

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: TrancedOutBrah] * 1
    #27475747 -

TrancedOutBrah said:
feevers said:
Byrain said:
The best approach to any epidemic or pandemic is a calm, rational and data oriented approach.


The best approach is to vaccinate it into a non-issue, which is/was entirely possible. The "calm, rational and data oriented approach" is to get the vaccine, that's been obvious for almost a year now.




Fucking hit the nail on the head.

Vaccines have been a giant boon to the health of mankind.

The fact people don't know this shit, just goes to show how fucking effective they are.

Diseases wiped out or nearly:

Polio, Tetanus, Hep B, Hep A, Rubella, Hib, Measles, Whooping Cough,  Pneumococcal,  Rotavirus, Mumps, Chicken pox, Diphtheria

Never heard of most of these? GOOD, BECAUSE VACCINES FUCKING WORK. They've been working for a long time now. This isn't new technology, shit this stuff has been mandated for the military and the general population for a long time and guess what? It's highly effective.

The fact our health is politicized by republicans just goes to show who's side they really are on.



Quote:
Registered: 18/08/21


:emotionalmoment:


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
personal empowerment for the world

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: koods]
    #27475800 -

koods said:
Sweden’s strategy has resulted in a situation where 8x as many people died in the country per capita than its neighbors. I find it amazing anyone can look at Sweden and think they handled it well.

Stop focusing so much on the data from disparate countries. Do you really think the data in Nigeria is worth anything?

The US is running an experiment in the real world consequences of low vs high vax rates and the data so far is pretty unequivocal


Yes, Sweden is a populous country, they had no good choices, their strategy was not perfect and many people died. The emphasis is on past tense, they are no longer dying en masse now and they did not destroy themselves the way a place like New York did which has a much higher death count.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/new-york/

Why should I accept the data in Nigeria is flawed at face value? If you have any specific reasons it is suspect please speak up. I will focus on any country that offers new possible insights on combating the pandemic. If IVM does not help, then this should be relatively easy and cheap to demonstrate in a clinical trial. I am sure you could find many unvaccinated people in the USA that would volunteer for such studies.

Again running an experiment by vaccinating people first come first served complete with off label booster shots is near worthless for scientific results and understanding. Where is the control group?

On a side note, out of the top 10 countries for covid-19 deaths in Africa only two are APOC countries, Kenya and Ethiopia.



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-4a11d568-2716-41cf-a15e-7d15079548bc
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7968425/

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Byrain] * 1
    #27475836 -

Statistics from Africa on Covid are hopelessly inaccurate, come on man.

Two countries that have their shit together are South Africa and Morocco.

Both of them have high infection rates. Do you think nothing is going on south of the Sahara except for South Africa? No reporting is going on there.

People get malaria and stay at home untill they are better or die and when they die the people put them in the ground and the governments in many cases never heard of these people ever existing.


--------------------
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personal empowerment for the world

Onehomemission.org
truly make a difference

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