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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Metoo] * 1
    #26848123 -

Back to your nonsense about racism:  Racism isn't unequal outcomes.  Racism is unequal opportunities.  Certainly, unequal outcomes can be evidence of unequal opportunities, but in itself, it isn't racism.

Your sports example is a good way to illustrate this.  NBA players are chosen based on their effectiveness at winning basketball games.  Race probably plays very little, if any, role in it.  Still, unequal outcomes are very clear here.  This should lead us to ask why. 

Of course, there are social/cultural aspects to this.  African Americans were specifically chosen and bred to be stronger, larger, faster, etc.  That plays into it some.  In addition, young black men do often grow up impoverished in this nation, and basketball is seen as a "way out" of the ghetto for many young black men. 

As a result, we could absolutely argue that the NBA's lack of racial diversity is a product of systemic racism.  That's not the same as saying that the NBA is a racist institution, of course.  It might be, but I doubt it.


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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Metoo]
    #26848153 -

Metoo said:
Enlil said:
The fact that I am racist doesn't change the fact that racism exists and is bad for society.


No but your blase and glib attitude is exactly what keeps us from making progress - preaching others but unwilling to make personal changes.


Blasé


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: twighead]
    #26848155 -

twighead said:
Ovoidhunter said:
Lol im joking. Unlike alot of people nowadays im comfortable in my white skin. I also have native american in me so I am more tan than your average white guy. It wouldve been nice to be born into a wealthy jewish family tho.


Almost all those 'wealthy jews' had nothing when they came to the country 100 years ago,

Pull yourself up by your bootstraps weakling


You can't say that comment to anyone today because they can just use the same argument that their lack of potential success isn't behavior based, it's based on some discriminatory aspect in the culture they live in today.

The bottom line, you can't have double standards for different aspects of potential cultural discrimination.

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: qman]
    #26848160 -

Jewish financial success is absolutely the product of social issues.  The jewish culture is as much a product of systemic racism as the black culture is.  Different expression of racism.  Different outcomes.  Same underlying problem:  We see people as different based on irrational factors.


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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Enlil]
    #26848167 -

I would argue that the current system has a number of cogs promoting the Black people to desirable positions. The cancel culture is viscious and often takes a form of mindlessly taking a high-level, aggregate statistics and presenting them as a proof of institutional racism. As in "BBC has only 3% of Black editors which is below the ethnic composition of the society". These media pile-ups are orchestrated to address the perceived problem of institutional racism, without proving that the beast exist and by using an unequal outcome as a banner. As a result, it is more than likely that Black applicants will be favoured by the corporates - to prevent or preempt any possible cancel operations in the future. I do not have any evidentiary level personal experience here but would be very surprised if it did not happen.

So, to address a perceived "institutional racism" problem (without first proving its existence) we end up with the actually racist recruiting process. This does not seem like a productive strategy to me.

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Metoo]
    #26848178 -

We've had racist recruiting for over a hundred years, though.  Are you saying that you think we need more proof of that?  If so, perhaps you haven't really looked at it very deeply.  I've looked at it closely enough, not only in the trenches on a case by case basis, but also by looking at studies and statistics, that I am convinced that we have a racist recruiting issue in the U.S.

At some point, the problem should be obvious.  To me, it clearly is.  Now, I admit that I have maybe looked into it more closely than many have, but the level of denial you're exhibiting seems to be based on gross ignorance, willful or otherwise.


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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Metoo]
    #26848190 -

Scott Adams in his podcast yesterday tried to assess if BLM and his answer was a resounding yes. On a lighter note one of his arguments was that there is an Ebony porn category but no generic White porn which proves that Blacks are more desirable. I mean if we had data to prove that Asian are seen as less desirable that would be a form of racism - not wanting to wank watching them - so this logic should wortk in reverse. I personally have a thing for Indian women ... wait... am I digging a hole here??


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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Enlil]
    #26848192 -

Enlil said:
We've had racist recruiting for over a hundred years, though.  Are you saying that you think we need more proof of that?  If so, perhaps you haven't really looked at it very deeply.  I've looked at it closely enough, not only in the trenches on a case by case basis, but also by looking at studies and statistics, that I am convinced that we have a racist recruiting issue in the U.S.

At some point, the problem should be obvious.  To me, it clearly is.  Now, I admit that I have maybe looked into it more closely than many have, but the level of denial you're exhibiting seems to be based on gross ignorance, willful or otherwise.


Please dispel my ignorance - do you believe that the process I described is actually happening? Not a hundred years ago but in 2020?

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Metoo] * 1
    #26848193 -

I have no clue what you're trying to say with that nonsensical tangent.  That post leads me to strongly suspect that you're among the willful ignorant and perhaps even one of the maliciously ignorant.


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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Metoo]
    #26848195 -

Metoo said:
Please dispel my ignorance - do you believe that the process I described is actually happening? Not a hundred years ago but in 2020?


Maybe in a few cases.  Certainly not enough to offset the racist recruiting practices that put people of color at a disadvantage.


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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Metoo] * 1
    #26848196 -

You lost me with the porn reference.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Enlil]
    #26848200 -

That is nothing to be proud of but not as bad as being willfully racist

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Metoo]
    #26848205 -

Good...bad...now you're just getting into morality.

I'm referring to motivation more than anything else.  If your motivation is to recruit people into some racist worldview, that's not welcome here.  if your motivation is to truly discuss and grow, why bring up some nonsensical porn reference?


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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #26848212 -

Where I currently live there is a lot of male Asian students who complain that scoring a white girl is almost impossible and blame it on racism (Asian females are doing ok in this department). It is apparently a mental stigma that they carry and are very uncomfortable with. I honestly find dark skin attractive and thought that worth mentioning in this context. It was an attempt at a joke tho so feel free to ignore

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Enlil]
    #26848219 -

Enlil said:
Good...bad...now you're just getting into morality.

I'm referring to motivation more than anything else.  If your motivation is to recruit people into some racist worldview, that's not welcome here.  if your motivation is to truly discuss and grow, why bring up some nonsensical porn reference?


My main motivation here is to work out what we mean by racism to avoid nonsensical discussions doomed from the start by lack of agreement on the common termnology

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Metoo]
    #26848221 -

You seem to be the only one not understanding the meaning of the term.  I'm just saying that it appears that this is by design.


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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Enlil]
    #26848230 -

The validity of your assessment is somewhat compomised by your (self-admittedly) racist signature

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Metoo]
    #26848235 -

Amish is a race ?


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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Metoo] * 1
    #26848236 -

Again, the fact that I'm racist has no bearing on whether or not I understand the meaning of the term.  Further, it appears that you're dug into a position where you choose to deny the term has any meaning so as to avoid any real discussion thereof.


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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Enlil]
    #26848245 -

Enlil said:
Again, the fact that I'm racist has no bearing on whether or not I understand the meaning of the term.  Further, it appears that you're dug into a position where you choose to deny the term has any meaning so as to avoid any real discussion thereof.


Please support your claim that I deny racism has any meaning. You may want to review the discussion initiated by me a few pages back where I repeatedly referenced the dictionary definition of racism and went to great lengths to explain that this is exactly how I understand and use the term - and also that if the definition changes so will my use of it.

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