qman said:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

The Ecstatic said:

Jimmy just takes his critique of the liberal establishment so far that he often ends up just defending the right. Don’t like how he cozies up to people like Sam Harris either.

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He defends the right for the same reasons I sometimes do.  If someone said "we can't elect Trump because he colluded with Putin", Jimmy would respond, "well, we don't know that he did, but we can't elect Trump for a whole shitload of other reasons".  Maybe he's too honest?

I'll look up what he's done with Sam Harris that you find offensive (or you can tell me because I gotta run to Universal Studios for the night), because that doesn't ring a bell.  Could it be agreeing with a point that Sam was correct about (similar to how I agree with some points Tucker Carlson is right about)?

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I tried finding what you were referring to, but all I could on Jimmy Dore regarding Sam Harris was this piece:

He talks about Sam from 2:55 - 5:15

That wasn't very endearing, so I'm sure you were talking about something else.

Even if Jimmy did agree with Sam Harris on something, it was probably a point worth agreeing about.

To me, this where both sides should come together and raise a toast or high five each other, not bitch at someone on their own side for not hating anything and everything coming from the other side enough.

XUL often complained about how he felt the left has become the party of hate, and unfortunately, I can see where he was coming from (generically speaking, you're not even close to the primary culprit).

Let's celebrate the things we have in common with the other side and build on that.  It might help get someone like Bernie or Tulsi elected.  If we won't recognize the good from the other side, why would we expect them to recognize it on ours? 

/rant

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"left has become the party of hate"

Yes, in many cases this is the truth. It's also becoming the party of division. If you support just ONE decent point from the other side, you suddenly are now are not a "non-biased rational actor" and you now have "personal bias". That's utterly ridiculous and a childlike mentality. It's basically stating 'if you agree with me, you're rational. If you disagree with me, you're biased and irrational'.

There is no longer any middle ground, it's agree with every talking point OR you're now on the far-right. That's a very dangerous mentality to have and it's where we're unfortunately headed as a nation. It's really a mentality that looking for a confrontation, not good.

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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

Yes, the one and only thing Jimmy may have said over 10 years ago that makes you said he can't be trusted.  Meanwhile CNN, MSNBC, New York Times, and Washington post tell us lies every week that people like Jimmy Dore point out, and you still believe those sources.

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The Ecstatic said:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

The Ecstatic said:

Dore falls into the same category as Gabbard imo, or Michael Tracey. They have some good politics and are right about most things, but also have some monumentally bad takes, and their supporters do more harm than good for the progressive movement at large.

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So can you provide an example of a "monumentally bad take" from Jimmy Dore?  Or do you just think allowing someone from the right to say something we already agree with is a monumentally bad take?

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Can you give an example of what would qualify as a bad take from jimmy Dore? Apparently none of the ones we give count.

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What example of a 'monumentally bad take' from Jimmy Dore did you give?

The Ecstatic said:

It’s not even about jimmy dore, it’s about what’s the best way to advance the message. The fundamental question here is: at what degree do we cede rhetorical ground to the people who are (rhetorically) the enemy?

For example: do you think it was a smart move for Tulsi Gabbard to go on Breitbart? Is she doing the progressive movement a service, or disservice, by telling the far right that the Democrats are corrupt?

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Are you talking about this article?

If so, she didn't say the Democrats were corrupt.  She said Hillary and the Democratic Party Establishment were corrupt.  Which is absolutely correct, and which is something I wished we would see the mainstream media say.  Breitbart was correct in this case, even though I generally dislike Breitbart.

The Ecstatic said:

And this is what I mean when I say it’s a fine line, because, imo, there’s no problem with her going on Fox to do the same. But Breitbart is different. People say Bernie did the progressive movement a disservice by going on Fox News.

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How did he do the progressive movement a disservice unless you disagree that we should "come together and raise a toast or high five each other" when we agree on something, not bash them about something we agree on because we don't agree with all of their other ideas?

In which case I understand where you're coming from, but it also means I was then right in saying that the democrats have become the party of hate.

The Ecstatic said:

Brian Jones said:

Tulsi's a real maverick, and I don't have the privilege of having conversations with her.

But between this and Assad, hopefully she will be judged on what she's actually done or said (or said recently for some detractors), and not on who she has talked to.

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Hopefully, but probably not.

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I agree with Brian, but if The Ecstatic is correct, then it would appear the left is indeed the party of hate, and we need to pander to them.

The Ecstatic said:

If we want reform we can’t stray too far outside the acceptable way of doing things. If that’s not going far enough for some, then they should be advocating burning down Breitbart, not giving them interviews.

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That's an example of the kind of hate I'm talking about. 

The Ecstatic said:

The Democrats will just turn around and call your campaign sour grapes, and their low info base will accept that narrative. It’s happening right now to Gabbard. Meanwhile, they can’t get anything to stick on Bernie. Why? He’s not giving interviews to Breitbart, he’s not getting into a shouting match with Hillary Clinton on twitter. I mean, hell, Bernie got shit for going on Joe Rogan’s podcast.

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I think you're agreeing with me if you feel we need to pander to the low info haters. 

I won't get on the low info hate train, and I guess that means just like Tulsi, I'll get hated by my own side.

The Ecstatic said:

It’s actually the opposite, the low info base loves him, and that’s the problem.  That’s why there’s a lot of people on the right who like Jimmy Dore and Michael Tracey.

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I like Jimmy Dore (I don't know who Michael Tracey is).  Why should I care if people on the right like Jimmy Dore?  I think that's a great thing actually!  This is the kind of hate from the left I keep talking about.  "Jimmy Dore is finding common ground!  I guess he appeals to the low info base."  Maybe, but I'll need to see an example to understand your point.

Then I'll also ask you yet again:  "What example of a 'monumentally bad take' from Jimmy Dore did you give?" And why do you think "the serious people on the left don’t take him seriously"?  If you're going to make this claim, you need to back it up.  And if you feel you've already told me, please tell me again because I missed it. 

koods said:

Jimmy Dore is a useful idiot for the right. Haven’t you noticed qman posting his videos.

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YangSupporter said:

koods said:

Jimmy Dore is a useful idiot for the right. Haven’t you noticed qman posting his videos.

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I thought for sure he'd take that post down after reading this one.

koods said:

Imagine being president and being so narcissistic that you spend your time doing this

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I didn't even know about that, but I knew about the Nationals game.  I guess Trump makes a decent point about the fake news. 

Brian Jones said:

I believe I was the first one to post Gabbard's counterattack on Hillary. I don't remember it exactly, but it was something like Hillary is the rotten core of everything that's wrong with the Democratic Party. I definitely got it from the MSM. Out of primarily laziness I get almost everything from my Microsoft Network homepage. And Bill Maher.

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