feevers said:

Our consciousness is (arguably) just the neurotransmitter and brain transmissions that make thought possible. Dopamine is a neurotransmitter, opiates hijack the very system that guides conscious thought in real and meaningful ways.

I work as an addiction counselor, and can say that many people have your exact opinion, use for decades without any issues, then one in change in their life or sometimes even nothing at all leads them to take the drug a little more often then usual for one brief period. There are a lot of factors that go into the slide, and good luck identifying them as they happen.

No one sees it coming, many people start out saying and doing exactly what you're saying and doing.

Not saying you're destined for addiction, just saying that your words show you may not fully understand how the grasp of addiction arises and keeps its hold. There's a genetic component for sure, but the fact that you enjoy opiates (many without the predisposition say that opiates make them dizzy or nauseous and little else) means you may wise to be very, very careful. Could try to say a lot more but will hold off, sorry if I'm sounding like a lecture.

The fact that you'll never see it coming is something you just don't understand until you go through it.

Dabbling with opiates is like being in a room with a slow carbon monoxide leak. Maybe you'll be one of the lucky ones that leaves the room by chance, maybe not.

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feevers said:

It shouldn't be difficult for people who use hallucinogens to understand the effect a chemical can have in altering your reality.

Opiates alter your reality to see the chemical as nearly as important as air and food. Our life is guided by the pursuit of fitness payoffs, and powerful opiates are the ultimate trojan horse of a fitness payoff.

"Choice" really isn't applicable when it comes to discussions on addiction, in most cases where it's used. Unfortunately there is no word that accurately describes a hijacked neurophysiological system's process of making decisions. Calling it a choice is often analogous to calling getting shoved forward "walking", sure there technically is some walking that happened... but there are clear other forces at play.

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Lophosaurus said:

LeningradCowboy said:

Lophosaurus said:

What if you eat food non-stop until you are a fat slob. Is it the foods fault? Is anybody ever to blame for their decisions?

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Actually in this society we are living the marketing of unhealthy food that makes you fat slob is highly intelligent and Dirty.
Your basic instincts are used against you in all means possible to get you hooked on bad stuff, sugar for example.
So I dont see your point valid in this one.

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Oh, so it is the marketers fault that people eat themselves into obesity, it's the whiskey's fault that people fight, and it's the drugs fault that people become addicted to it. I guess nobody is at fault for any of their actions then because there is always someone else to blame and even inanimate things are being blamed. Nobody is responsible for anything anymore, what a crazy world we live in.

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feevers said:

Sure it's a choice in significant ways, but the person inside that's making the choice just isn't the same person they were before the drug changed their brain chemistry. The computer that is their brain now has a virus, and it's replicating. Choice itself takes on a whole new meaning when the areas of your brain associated with motivation, hope, rational thinking etc have been dampened, that topic's more suited to the free will thread though..

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LeningradCowboy said:

Lophosaurus said:

LeningradCowboy said:

Lophosaurus said:

What if you eat food non-stop until you are a fat slob. Is it the foods fault? Is anybody ever to blame for their decisions?

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Actually in this society we are living the marketing of unhealthy food that makes you fat slob is highly intelligent and Dirty.
Your basic instincts are used against you in all means possible to get you hooked on bad stuff, sugar for example.
So I dont see your point valid in this one.

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Oh, so it is the marketers fault that people eat themselves into obesity, it's the whiskey's fault that people fight, and it's the drugs fault that people become addicted to it. I guess nobody is at fault for any of their actions then because there is always someone else to blame and even inanimate things are being blamed. Nobody is responsible for anything anymore, what a crazy world we live in.

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If you are fed unhealthy food that you get addicted to(sugar for example) your whole life there is no free will. Most kids dont get to decide their families diet you know. Nor the families have enough money to choose healthy diet. Some people figure out what is happening and break free from those unhealthy habits. But you cannot state that everybody has a choice before they are all ready obese and their health is compromised.
At same time you are manipulated hardcore to eat at mcdonalds and drink soda instead water.
The foundation of modern commercials is based on book written by nephew of Sigmund Freud and it is called propaganda.
The term was too rough so it was changed as pr.
The budget used to make people want to eat shit is massive.

Please do some research

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Lophosaurus said:

The person makes those decisions and they are in power, not the marketing or psychology. These people are not helpless. They are bad decision makers and that is it. Not powerless victims.

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Jokeshopbeard said:

Of course the people that do it are at fault as well. No one is denying that but you. And that's the problem. You're trying to make the whole issue black and white, when it's anything but.

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Quote:

feevers said: The computer that is their brain now has a virus, and it's replicating. Choice itself takes on a whole new meaning when the areas of your brain associated with motivation, hope, rational thinking etc have been dampened, that topic's more suited to the free will thread though..

You can argue they shouldn't have done it in the first place, shouldn't have done so much, etc, but you're in that same spot yourself. Youre either just one of the few that can control it, or one of the many that will get caught.

It's easy to make the mistake of assuming your experience is everyone's experience, but coming from someone who's listened to countless hours of addicts pouring their hearts out, it's just not helpful to try to simplify something that is so deeply complex.

If it was merely a choice, people would walk into my office and I could just say 'Stop it.', and they'd know what choice to make and be cured. Instead, treatment often focuses on chemical substitution, and/or retraining the brain to compensate and begin recognizing the mechanism the drug has for its 'mind control, how to cope with these cravings and triggers and how to develop a life worth being sober for.

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LeningradCowboy said:

Lophosaurus said:

LeningradCowboy said:

Lophosaurus said:

What if you eat food non-stop until you are a fat slob. Is it the foods fault? Is anybody ever to blame for their decisions?

---

Actually in this society we are living the marketing of unhealthy food that makes you fat slob is highly intelligent and Dirty.
Your basic instincts are used against you in all means possible to get you hooked on bad stuff, sugar for example.
So I dont see your point valid in this one.

---

Oh, so it is the marketers fault that people eat themselves into obesity, it's the whiskey's fault that people fight, and it's the drugs fault that people become addicted to it. I guess nobody is at fault for any of their actions then because there is always someone else to blame and even inanimate things are being blamed. Nobody is responsible for anything anymore, what a crazy world we live in.

---

If you are fed unhealthy food that you get addicted to(sugar for example) your whole life there is no free will. Most kids dont get to decide their families diet you know. Nor the families have enough money to choose healthy diet. Some people figure out what is happening and break free from those unhealthy habits. But you cannot state that everybody has a choice before they are all ready obese and their health is compromised.
At same time you are manipulated hardcore to eat at mcdonalds and drink soda instead water.
The foundation of modern commercials is based on book written by nephew of Sigmund Freud and it is called propaganda.
The term was too rough so it was changed as pr.
The budget used to make people want to eat shit is massive.

Please do some research

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lowbrow said:

I imagine there are many situations where people are force fed heroin.

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PreparationH said:

I am in my late 20s now, 3 of my best neighborhood friends from growing up began dabbling in opiates and taking percocets when we were 16ish, I was just never interested.  I got BIG into psychedelics though, went away to college, and while I was at school, my friends graduated to oxycontin then eventually heroin and started committing crimes.

My one friend "A" is still a heroin addict going on 10 years now but is wealthy so money was never an issue, the other "B"  just got out of rehab for his fifth time and I guarantee he will relapse again and is a felon due to crimes to support his habit, and the other "C" spent 3 years in prison for burglarizing homes to support his habit and is also a felon.  C's family is big into hunting, he can't hunt because he's a felon and can not use a firearm, fucked his life up.  C has been clean over 4 years and says it was because of the Vivitrol shots he was given monthly, 6 months after being clean he said he realized he was in a haze for 6 some years shooting drugs, not caring for himself and his teeth were so fucked up it was like waking up in a nightmare realizing the damage he's done to himself and his family.  He recently had a child and is doing well and is one of my best friends for life!



My nephew two Septembers ago overdosed and died on heroin too so that anniversary is soon.


Please, to anyone reading this, I am unsure if any opiates can be used recreationally.  Everyone I know that tried failed or died.  Seriously, you are not smarter or more strong willed, my friends and nephew were all intelligent put together young people and I still am waiting for the call that A has died or B relapsed, and I hear C bitching constantly because he can't own firearms to protect his family for mistakes he made out of his mind in his early 20s on heroin.



Fuck opiates dawg, eat acid, mushrooms, pot, smoke salvia, DMT, literally all that shit won't leave you stealing from your own neighbors to shoot shit into your body.

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theRealrollforever said:

As someone with a pretty hijacked reward system (somewhat recovered). I see both sides to the addiction argument.  I think the state of NO OPIATES FOR ANYONE EVER UNLESS CANCER!  Is the most ridiculous and harmful thing to this opioid “epidemic”.  Lots of people I know don’t understand how much more dangerous this all or nothing attitude is where it’s no pain killers/ opioids unless you’re willing to start doing dangerous street drugs.  I don’t even believe that it’s straight up fentanyl that’s killing people there are some extremely weird tranquilizers in the street baggies nowadays.  I used to LIKE fent and heron but I don’t even bother with these Russian roulette baggies that don’t even produce a euphoric high and a pathetic half-life making you cold cop twice a day or spend hundreds.

Bring back pods.  Bring back 30 prescriptions.  Anything but this.  My girlfriend lost a TOE due to an amputation  And oxycodone 10mg is prescribed like they’re giving you that straight dope.  It’s atrocious.

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PreparationH said:

You quoted something I did not type dude wtf?

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