O_Dweeds said:

moonrockmushy said:

Life destroying is a pretty extreme description, but if you feel great on opiates and don't feel good when you're not on them, you will easily get hooked.  While I can't speak for chronic pain patients, self medicating for some emotional or existential reason with opiates tends to cause lots of life problems and decreases you potential for enjoyment in life down the road in lots of ways.  If you give a fuck about your life and future, I personally would not recommend taking opiates. 

To me it's not too much safer to take weak opiates or low doses.  Sure you might get less sick but the sickness is not the dangerous part as much as it sucks.  What's dangerous about it is how it changes your thought processes regarding what you find a rewarding experience, and that will happen at any dose you can feel.  Lots of drugs can do this but opiates seem especially effective, and that effect of the drug can last for an indefinite amount of time unlike the sickness.

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Wayyy to many uniquely occurring opiates to blanket them all in the not safe for low/micro-dosing.
Example: Micro/Low-dosing thebaine is extremely energizing and lasts 24 hours. So you're going a full day before your body is even feeling like a re-dose.
And since it also has pain relief properties 2-4 times as strong as morphine it works great for it's desired use and one can sleep well and have a good ngihts sleep (REM Cycles)

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Lophosaurus said:

Not every dose of heroin makes you nod off obviously, so is the heroin responsible for the rape or not? You can't answer that question without proving your view to be wrong. Heroin is a drug and not responsible for anything.

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lowbrow said:

Fiery said:

Let me sum up this thread for the Too long didn't readers. TL:DR

Quote:

Are opiates really life destroying?

---

YES

---

Get ready.  Somebody’s going to argue it.

---

If they destroy lives.

Why hasn't my life been destroyed?


I love opioids and I've dabbled with them occasionally over the past 12 years...I've smoked H a few times years ago, I've taken oxycodone or oxymorphone up my nose, I've dabbled with quite an assortment of various opioids over the years.

I've never used regularly and I have never been addicted ....because I CHOOSE to not become addicted, it is as simple as that.

My life isn't destroyed because I haven't dug myself into that hole. Because I chose to not do so. Is there not a choice involved?

I am responsible over my choices and decisions...I don't pass blame onto a drug that is inanimate.

If one becomes addicted and "ruins their life" with a drug...It really shows how weak-minded a person is if they blame the drug and don't take any responsibility for the situation they're in and choices they made.

A choice is always involved....that's the root of how people destroy their lives, from CHOICES they make.



Why hasn't my sister's life been destroyed?...She's been prescribed various opioids for different things a few times over the years. She hasn't turned into an addict .

I know lots of folks that have been prescribed opioids at one point or another, none of them turned into a junky and none of them have destroyed their lives.

I know several people that really love opioids like myself and they dabble and get high on them from time to time...None of them have destroyed their lives, none are addicted.




Ya'll act like these this class of drugs is "conscious" and has some sort of agenda to destroy human lives and humans don't have any choice in it....When in reality, it is people destroying their lives with their own choices and decisions.

If someone chooses to kill/shoot themselves in the head with a gun...I absolutely do not view the gun as what destroyed the person's life, it was the persons choice that was at the root of it all.



If someone makes the choice to take a drug everyday that's only digging themselves into a deeper hole of addiction....that is entirely the person's choice.

I do not see it any other way.

Sure a person can destroy their lives with their choices, and their choices might involve a drug.....but behind it all is choice.






-OM

.

openmind said:

lowbrow said:

Fiery said:

Let me sum up this thread for the Too long didn't readers. TL:DR

Quote:

Are opiates really life destroying?

---

YES

---

Get ready.  Somebody’s going to argue it.

---

If they destroy lives.

Why hasn't my life been destroyed?


I love opioids and I've dabbled with them occasionally over the past 12 years...I've smoked H a few times years ago, I've taken oxycodone or oxymorphone up my nose, I've dabbled with quite an assortment of various opioids over the years.

I've never used regularly and I have never been addicted ....because I CHOOSE to not become addicted, it is as simple as that.

My life isn't destroyed because I haven't dug myself into that hole. Because I chose to not do so. Is there not a choice involved?

I am responsible over my choices and decisions...I don't pass blame onto a drug that is inanimate.

If one becomes addicted and "ruins their life" with a drug...It really shows how weak-minded a person is if they blame the drug and don't take any responsibility for the situation they're in and choices they made.

A choice is always involved....that's the root of how people destroy their lives, from CHOICES they make.



Why hasn't my sister's life been destroyed?...She's been prescribed various opioids for different things a few times over the years. She hasn't turned into an addict .

I know lots of folks that have been prescribed opioids at one point or another, none of them turned into a junky and none of them have destroyed their lives.

I know several people that really love opioids like myself and they dabble and get high on them from time to time...None of them have destroyed their lives, none are addicted.




Ya'll act like these this class of drugs is "conscious" and has some sort of agenda to destroy human lives and humans don't have any choice in it....When in reality, it is people destroying their lives with their own choices and decisions.

If someone chooses to kill/shoot themselves in the head with a gun...I absolutely do not view the gun as what destroyed the person's life, it was the persons choice that was at the root of it all.



If someone makes the choice to take a drug everyday that's only digging themselves into a deeper hole of addiction....that is entirely the person's choice.

I do not see it any other way.

Sure a person can destroy their lives with their choices, and their choices might involve a drug.....but behind it all is choice.






-OM

.

---

openmind said:

lowbrow said:

Fiery said:

Let me sum up this thread for the Too long didn't readers. TL:DR

Quote:

Are opiates really life destroying?

---

YES

---

Get ready.  Somebody’s going to argue it.

---

If they destroy lives.

Why hasn't my life been destroyed?


I love opioids and I've dabbled with them occasionally over the past 12 years...I've smoked H a few times years ago, I've taken oxycodone or oxymorphone up my nose, I've dabbled with quite an assortment of various opioids over the years.

I've never used regularly and I have never been addicted ....because I CHOOSE to not become addicted, it is as simple as that.

My life isn't destroyed because I haven't dug myself into that hole. Because I chose to not do so. Is there not a choice involved?

I am responsible over my choices and decisions...I don't pass blame onto a drug that is inanimate.

If one becomes addicted and "ruins their life" with a drug...It really shows how weak-minded a person is if they blame the drug and don't take any responsibility for the situation they're in and choices they made.

A choice is always involved....that's the root of how people destroy their lives, from CHOICES they make.



Why hasn't my sister's life been destroyed?...She's been prescribed various opioids for different things a few times over the years. She hasn't turned into an addict .

I know lots of folks that have been prescribed opioids at one point or another, none of them turned into a junky and none of them have destroyed their lives.

I know several people that really love opioids like myself and they dabble and get high on them from time to time...None of them have destroyed their lives, none are addicted.




Ya'll act like these this class of drugs is "conscious" and has some sort of agenda to destroy human lives and humans don't have any choice in it....When in reality, it is people destroying their lives with their own choices and decisions.

If someone chooses to kill/shoot themselves in the head with a gun...I absolutely do not view the gun as what destroyed the person's life, it was the persons choice that was at the root of it all.



If someone makes the choice to take a drug everyday that's only digging themselves into a deeper hole of addiction....that is entirely the person's choice.

I do not see it any other way.

Sure a person can destroy their lives with their choices, and their choices might involve a drug.....but behind it all is choice.






-OM

.

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lowbrow said:

Theres always exceptions to the rule, but opiates destroy lives.

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Jokeshopbeard said:

Lophosaurus said:

NO, How could an inanimate object destroy a life.

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What, like guns?

I know, I know, guns don't kill people, people do, but without guns in this world I'd stake my life on the fact people wouldn't be getting killed in anything like the sheer numbers they currently are.

Such is the case with opiates. There's no way, were they no so readily available in this country, that you'd be losing so many due to the crisis they've caused.

Ergo, opiates destroy lives. Were they not here, they would not do so.

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musiclover420 said:

Jokeshopbeard said:

Lophosaurus said:

NO, How could an inanimate object destroy a life.

---

What, like guns?

I know, I know, guns don't kill people, people do, but without guns in this world I'd stake my life on the fact people wouldn't be getting killed in anything like the sheer numbers they currently are.

Such is the case with opiates. There's no way, were they no so readily available in this country, that you'd be losing so many due to the crisis they've caused.

Ergo, opiates destroy lives. Were they not here, they would not do so.

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Using guns as an example, even if we agreed guns aren't directly responsible it seems pretty clear that assault rifles will be more dangerous then muskets or hand guns.

With opiates it's the same, even the milder ones can be dangerous but at least they won't have the same risks that heroin or fentanyl will.

If pharmaceutical companies didn't care so much about profits maybe we'd have more non addictive pain meds already, since that is really the biggest issue. Event the smartest people with great self control can end up hooked.

Lophosaurus said:

Not every dose of heroin makes you nod off obviously, so is the heroin responsible for the rape or not? You can't answer that question without proving your view to be wrong. Heroin is a drug and not responsible for anything.

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Really? Would you say the same about alcohol? I think you're underestimating the strength of psychoactive substances to alter peoples thought processes. There's a reason violent drunks are a common theme even with some non violent people. Does it totally excuse shitty behavior? Of course not. Does it play a big role? Absolutely, many people wouldn't ever end up as desperate and greedy without the drugs to cloud their judgement.

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Lophosaurus said:

What if you eat food non-stop until you are a fat slob. Is it the foods fault? Is anybody ever to blame for their decisions?

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LeningradCowboy said:

Lophosaurus said:

What if you eat food non-stop until you are a fat slob. Is it the foods fault? Is anybody ever to blame for their decisions?

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Actually in this society we are living the marketing of unhealthy food that makes you fat slob is highly intelligent and Dirty.
Your basic instincts are used against you in all means possible to get you hooked on bad stuff, sugar for example.
So I dont see your point valid in this one.

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Lophosaurus said:

LeningradCowboy said:

Lophosaurus said:

What if you eat food non-stop until you are a fat slob. Is it the foods fault? Is anybody ever to blame for their decisions?

---

Actually in this society we are living the marketing of unhealthy food that makes you fat slob is highly intelligent and Dirty.
Your basic instincts are used against you in all means possible to get you hooked on bad stuff, sugar for example.
So I dont see your point valid in this one.

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Oh, so it is the marketers fault that people eat themselves into obesity, it's the whiskey's fault that people fight, and it's the drugs fault that people become addicted to it. I guess nobody is at fault for any of their actions then because there is always someone else to blame and even inanimate things are being blamed. Nobody is responsible for anything anymore, what a crazy world we live in.

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