Home | Community | Message Board
You are not signed in.
Sign In New Account
Forum Index Search Posts Trusted Vendors Highlights Galleries FAQ User List Chat Store Random Growery


This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.

Community > The Pub
Threaded Mode Threaded  Previous topic Previous  View all topics Index  Next topic Next 

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds, Bulk Cannabis Seeds   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

Jump to first unread post Pages: | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 |
Re: What do you think of nationalism? [Re: split_by_nine] * 1
    #25993131 -

especially the current administration...


--------------------
🐴:poop:
hpoo or die

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: What do you think of nationalism? [Re: specialpeopleclub] * 2
    #25993148 -

What do people actually mean when they are talking about globalism or nationalism?

To say one should reject nationalism in favor of globalism is a silly concept to me. These are supercharged words that have many meanings, and they are broad. I find it absurd that so many people form identities with these two words. It makes it quite easy to be manipulated by pandering politicians when you put so much faith into your identity as a nationalist, or into your position of globalism. These words can be construed in so many different ways, they are quite malleable.

If we take this definition that was offered in the OP:

Quote:
na·tion·al·ism
noun
Identification with one's own nation and support for its interests, especially to the exclusion or detriment of the interests of other nations.



And compare it to this definition:

Quote:
Nationalism is a political, social, and economic ideology and movement characterized by the promotion of the interests of a particular nation, especially with the aim of gaining and maintaining the nation's sovereignty over its homeland.


We have two very different ways of viewing the same word, it's quite easy to divide people unnecessarily over these differences in semantics. Likewise, the word globalist can be used to describe anyone from a person who believes in free market trade around the world to someone who believes world institutions should regulate independent sovereignties for the betterment of the conglomerate. These can be very different ideologies themselves and don't really clarify anything.

Nationalism and globalism are strong words emotionally, but their value for logically describing beliefs is weak.

Nationalism is great when you're asserting your freedom from oppressive rule. It sucks when you're rallying behind it to oppress others. It's not particularly evil on it's own as some would describe, it's pretty neutral out of context. I would say that anyone who describes themselves as a globalist merely to contrast themselves against the group describing themselves as nationalists are doing so for dumb reasons.

Edited by PatrickKn (05/14/19 10:57 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: What do you think of nationalism? [Re: split_by_nine]
    #25993182 -

split_by_nine said:
especially the current administration...


That's because most people are myopic, ignorant simpletons.
Including myself much of the time. These things are complicated though, and I enjoy thinking about them. I like the way the post above me thinks. Extremes are important though because nuance is ambiguous and confusing to all of us at some point.
I'm far from a genius and enjoy being checked for my stupidity

The way I see it, we are at the mercy of things noone has control of.



I assume he says similar things to what I heard in the last speech he gave. They seem to be very long term ideas.
It's an hour, but it's interesting stuff. I like Caspian Report, and he recommended the book 'Accidntal Superpower'


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: What do you think of nationalism? [Re: specialpeopleclub]
    #25993253 -

if you use the word myopic one more time....

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: What do you think of nationalism? [Re: morrowasted]
    #25993319 -

I'm so sorry. I'll restrain myself.
I was just saying to my brother how I use that word too much


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: What do you think of nationalism? [Re: specialpeopleclub]
    #25993389 -

the US government is essentially now borrowing money from china to pay soybean farmers not to sell soybeans to china

fuck this stupid country

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: What do you think of nationalism? [Re: lowbrow]
    #25993471 -

lowbrow said:
Fonzee said:
I think nationalism is plain arrogance.
I'm don't think globalism is a smart idea, as local communities can be a very powerful, and environmentally positive, construction. I believe a city or small areas should have their own rules. Some stuff work locally and do not work globally. Also, not all resources should be shared / traded.
But I don't believe in national boarders.


What about Israel?


What about it? It is a pretty shitty place that survives on segmentation and war.

qman said:
Fonzee said:
I think nationalism is plain arrogance.
I'm don't think globalism is a smart idea, as local communities can be a very powerful, and environmentally positive, construction. I believe a city or small areas should have their own rules. Some stuff work locally and do not work globally. Also, not all resources should be shared / traded.
But I don't believe in national boarders.


Well, there seems to be some contradictions in your reasoning, if you don't want resources to be shared, you can't have open borders.

What happens if 500 million broke third world migrants flood into the US?  What happens to our resources for US citizens?  It's gone, that's why we have national borders, citizenship and national sovereignty.


I don't want ALL resources to be shared. Some are bound to. I'm not against silk trade or metal trade. Cars trade? sure.
Exotic fruits trade? I am against most of it. Worldwide cannabis buds trade? Against it. Animal trade? Mostly against. Large scale meat trade? definitely against.
When open to global markets influence, it is very hard for small scale, innovative, producers to step in. In their place come very big producers who centralize capital.

If 500 million third world migrants rush into the US and take back the resources US took from them via war in the last few decades, I will call it justice. :cookiemonster:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: What do you think of nationalism? [Re: YangSupporter]
    #25993500 -

YangSupporter said:
specialpeopleclub said:
They absolutely are, when looking at the world and relative historical conditions. Many people have made bad choices or have had things happen limiting their economic viability, but I'm not a populist. And most people are a waste. It's just the way of things. People think because some fail that the economy isn't working, and that is childish way to think about things.
Even if everyone was economically well off, the human condition is one that lacks satisfaction


American life expectancy is declining thats not a sign of a great country...


And Yang will change this?


--------------------
:hypnotoad:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: What do you think of nationalism? [Re: MoonFarmer]
    #25993626 -

MoonFarmer said:
YangSupporter said:
specialpeopleclub said:
They absolutely are, when looking at the world and relative historical conditions. Many people have made bad choices or have had things happen limiting their economic viability, but I'm not a populist. And most people are a waste. It's just the way of things. People think because some fail that the economy isn't working, and that is childish way to think about things.
Even if everyone was economically well off, the human condition is one that lacks satisfaction


American life expectancy is declining thats not a sign of a great country...


And Yang will change this?


Yes UBI will be a game changer for Americans as will universal healthcare.


--------------------
https://youtu.be/cTsEzmFamZ8

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: What do you think of nationalism? [Re: YangSupporter] * 1
    #25993661 -

YangSupporter said:
American life expectancy is declining thats not a sign of a great country...

It’s a sign of stressed a country.

Edited by lowbrow (05/15/19 02:46 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: What do you think of nationalism? [Re: specialpeopleclub]
    #25994002 -

specialpeopleclub said:
Most people for all of time have been extremely poor.
I'm awear of wage stagnation.
These are often the things people cite. Despite this people live comfortable, safe lives. There aren't mass starvations or anything really prescient.

It's like people have no concept of history or how our ancestors suffered and think the things you are complaining about even come close.
So what if that money is borrowed? So what if we are in debt to china? Our economy is what holds up the entire world. The US has come out of every decade in a more advantageous position economically and militarily then it has for over a century. Longer than any nation.

The US changed the economics of the world to create global markets so it wasn't dangerous to trade with neighbors because you could be at war with them. The US is fucking amazing


Again, you're putting a spin on the whole situation, we're discussing how the US working class has deteriorated in the past 50 years and you're rationalizing it by suggesting we're not starving. We should have a higher standard than that since there's economic growth taking place today.

The strength of the US is concentrated to a smaller and smaller percentage of the population, I don't know how that benefits US citizens overall.

BTW, the US percentage of global GDP has been shrinking, which shouldn't be too surprising.

https://ycharts.com/indicators/us_gdp_as_a_percentage_of_world_gdp

Year 2000- 30%,  2014- 24%.

"The US is fucking amazing"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_wealth_per_adult

It sure is. Global "Median and mean wealth per adult...#22 US"

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: What do you think of nationalism? [Re: Fonzee]
    #25994004 -

Fonzee said:
lowbrow said:
Fonzee said:
I think nationalism is plain arrogance.
I'm don't think globalism is a smart idea, as local communities can be a very powerful, and environmentally positive, construction. I believe a city or small areas should have their own rules. Some stuff work locally and do not work globally. Also, not all resources should be shared / traded.
But I don't believe in national boarders.


What about Israel?


What about it? It is a pretty shitty place that survives on segmentation and war.

qman said:
Fonzee said:
I think nationalism is plain arrogance.
I'm don't think globalism is a smart idea, as local communities can be a very powerful, and environmentally positive, construction. I believe a city or small areas should have their own rules. Some stuff work locally and do not work globally. Also, not all resources should be shared / traded.
But I don't believe in national boarders.


Well, there seems to be some contradictions in your reasoning, if you don't want resources to be shared, you can't have open borders.

What happens if 500 million broke third world migrants flood into the US?  What happens to our resources for US citizens?  It's gone, that's why we have national borders, citizenship and national sovereignty.


I don't want ALL resources to be shared. Some are bound to. I'm not against silk trade or metal trade. Cars trade? sure.
Exotic fruits trade? I am against most of it. Worldwide cannabis buds trade? Against it. Animal trade? Mostly against. Large scale meat trade? definitely against.
When open to global markets influence, it is very hard for small scale, innovative, producers to step in. In their place come very big producers who centralize capital.

If 500 million third world migrants rush into the US and take back the resources US took from them via war in the last few decades, I will call it justice. :cookiemonster:


Yeah, that's EXACTLY why US citizens want national borders, immigration laws, citizenship and national sovereignty. So shit like that never happens. Thanks for reinforcing my original point.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: What do you think of nationalism? [Re: lowbrow]
    #25994110 -

lowbrow said:
YangSupporter said:
American life expectancy is declining thats not a sign of a great country...

It’s a sign of stressed country.


Very true thats why UBI will be a game changer.


--------------------
https://youtu.be/cTsEzmFamZ8

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: What do you think of nationalism? [Re: YangSupporter]
    #25994206 -

The way I see it, despite the stagnation in lower class wages, what we can purchase in the market is much different.
The US is like half of the global trading. Without our implicit security there isn't even a global market.

It is a worry that so much wealthis concentrated, but that is the game. These people are what fund our institutions. People always act like the money is just stagnating in their pockets, which seems rediculous.

It isn't good that two people have to work to support a home. People always talk about how good the past was like a stereotype. Could a Walmart job really feed a family if it was translated into the past?
I had one and know I couldn't pay rent and feed myself, let alone have internet and a vehicle, even at full time. I did the math. I wonder if I should be able to or if I'm just wanting more then I deserve


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: What do you think of nationalism? [Re: specialpeopleclub]
    #25994315 -

specialpeopleclub said:
People in America in general are doing well. Until we get Utopia, there will always be a lower class. People are fat and doing relatively well . . .


Heart disease and cancer still drive the majority of US deaths.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: What do you think of nationalism? [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #25994362 -

When you get old your cancer risk goes up. When you get past that you get cardiac disease, generally


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: What do you think of nationalism? [Re: specialpeopleclub] * 1
    #25994376 -

specialpeopleclub said:
The way I see it, despite the stagnation in lower class wages, what we can purchase in the market is much different.
The US is like half of the global trading. Without our implicit security there isn't even a global market.

It is a worry that so much wealthis concentrated, but that is the game. These people are what fund our institutions. People always act like the money is just stagnating in their pockets, which seems rediculous.

It isn't good that two people have to work to support a home. People always talk about how good the past was like a stereotype. Could a Walmart job really feed a family if it was translated into the past?
I had one and know I couldn't pay rent and feed myself, let alone have internet and a vehicle, even at full time. I did the math. I wonder if I should be able to or if I'm just wanting more then I deserve


"These people are what fund our institutions"

Well, since the top 1% make most of the income, of course they fund most of the tax revenue. That fact shouldn't be celebrated, it should be reversed. You do realize with a more even distribution of wealth like we had in the 1940-80's, the top 1% didn't pay very much of the total tax revenue? 

"money is just stagnating in their pockets"

Actually the top 1% do basically hoard their money today.  Why do you think the velocity of money is at a 60 year low?  Why do you think we had 0% interest rates for almost 10 years and are going back to 0% in short order once again?  Because the wealth is being hoarded and NOT invested.

Also, people that worked in the retail sector before the Wal-Marts of the world came into the picture did very well.  That was their full-time career, they supported themselves and their families with a regular full-time retail job.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: What do you think of nationalism? [Re: split_by_nine]
    #25994412 -

split_by_nine said:
specialpeopleclub said:
I really dislike the wording in that defenition, because it seems to imply idiotic maliciousness.


i have to say that you make a good argument for your opinions about nationalism..

but if i am being honest, this is the way the USA looks like to most people, malicious and idiotic. this is how i see the USA.


edit: for example, Alabama Senate bans nearly all abortions, including rape cases


This really pisses me off! I am an abortion advocate. All the way, no matter what, get the fucking thing for all I care. I've sort of been following it. Those motherfucking idiots are trying to go backwards!


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: What do you think of nationalism? [Re: tyrannicalrex]
    #25994441 -

The weathiest people have always funded most everything. Sonce the rennaisance and probably before.
I think people are looking to blame other people out of jealousy and comparing how we live today to a completely different time where a high standard of living was a completely different thing.

I have to take your word on these numbers, what they mean is another matter.

What is the solution anyway? People just seem to want to take from the wealthy and give to those that have little because the wealthy will be 'fine'
It seems very complicated and people seem to want simple solutions to problems that seem to he part of the transition.

What I hear when I talk to older people is an era of back breaking factory work where everyone worked dark more then they do today.
I need a more direct comparison of lifestyles. It all seems like a mess.
tyrannicalrex said:
split_by_nine said:
specialpeopleclub said:
I really dislike the wording in that defenition, because it seems to imply idiotic maliciousness.


i have to say that you make a good argument for your opinions about nationalism..

but if i am being honest, this is the way the USA looks like to most people, malicious and idiotic. this is how i see the USA.


edit: for example, Alabama Senate bans nearly all abortions, including rape cases


This really pisses me off! I am an abortion advocate. All the way, no matter what, get the fucking thing for all I care. I've sort of been following it. Those motherfucking idiots are trying to go backwards!


I know it's of topic, but...
People just don't value people, and the abortion movement is just a way for people to express their hate under the guise of virtue.
It's hilariously transparent once you understand how people think.
'abortion advocate'...haha...hahahahaha.
Fucking shamelessly gross.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: What do you think of nationalism? [Re: specialpeopleclub]
    #25994445 -

specialpeopleclub said:
When you get old your cancer risk goes up. When you get past that you get cardiac disease, generally


It's estimated 160 million Americans are either obese or overweight, which contributes to increased cardiac disease rates and more than a dozen types of cancer. Many people are fat. I don't think that contributes to being "well".

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 |

Shop: Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds, Bulk Cannabis Seeds   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

Community > The Pub
Threaded Mode Threaded  Previous topic Previous  View all topics Index  Next topic Next 

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* It exists because we believe it exists
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 all )		 Gillette 20,971 164 07/29/05 04:05 PM
by Adamist
* Define my "Nationality"!
( 1 2 all )		 Drink_Punk_Soda 1,568 22 09/27/05 03:56 PM
by Irradiated_Feces
* My Pet is a Murderer! -pics felix 1,456 16 09/24/04 08:53 PM
by Geordi_La_Forge
* Some AFRICAN AMERICANS
( 1 2 3 4 5 all )		 Captain Loafy McPoopdick 7,224 91 10/31/05 07:27 AM
by ivi
* Does God exist? A Poll.
( 1 2 all )		 Anonymous 4,921 38 02/24/05 08:28 AM
by DeadPhan
* The New Face of White Nationalism
( 1 2 all )		 Silversoul 2,724 30 11/05/05 09:19 PM
by Stonerguy
* USC is not going for its 3rd national championship. kilroy69 912 6 12/24/05 12:51 AM
by Banez
* My friend was murdered
( 1 2 all )		 Captain Loafy McPoopdick 2,361 27 08/22/05 11:26 PM
by Captain Loafy McPoopdick

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Entire Staff
7,773 topic views. 5 members, 156 guests and 114 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2026 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.034 seconds spending 0.009 seconds on 18 queries.