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Re: Japan's Labor Shortage & Immigration Laws [Re: YangSupporter]
    #25967896 -

YangSupporter said:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
YangSupporter said:
Actually Qman is right about automation not creating as many jobs I don't know if those numbers are accurate but it is a correct assessment. New jobs will be created but not in the numbers needed to employ everyone who needs a job.



Is there proof of qman's claim that 1000 jobs will be lost for every job created to build robots?  We have about 100 years of history to look at.



The new automation wave is going to be very different than in the past. In the past jobs were created for low skill workers in large numbers now the new jobs that result from automation will only go to the cream of the crop skill wise. For example the most common job in the United States is truck driver and retail worker both of those jobs are going to be automated within the next decade. All of those workers are not going to become computer programmers.



:whathesaid:

Technology has been a net destroyer of jobs for almost 20 years and it's just going to accelerate in the coming years.

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Re: Japan's Labor Shortage & Immigration Laws [Re: qman]
    #25967912 -

qman said:
YangSupporter said:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
YangSupporter said:
Actually Qman is right about automation not creating as many jobs I don't know if those numbers are accurate but it is a correct assessment. New jobs will be created but not in the numbers needed to employ everyone who needs a job.



Is there proof of qman's claim that 1000 jobs will be lost for every job created to build robots?  We have about 100 years of history to look at.



The new automation wave is going to be very different than in the past. In the past jobs were created for low skill workers in large numbers now the new jobs that result from automation will only go to the cream of the crop skill wise. For example the most common job in the United States is truck driver and retail worker both of those jobs are going to be automated within the next decade. All of those workers are not going to become computer programmers.



:whathesaid:

Technology has been a net destroyer of jobs for almost 20 years and it's just going to accelerate in the coming years.



Indeed thats why I'm supporting Yang hes the only candidate who is looking to the future.


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https://youtu.be/cTsEzmFamZ8

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Re: Japan's Labor Shortage & Immigration Laws [Re: YangSupporter] * 1
    #25967982 -

I read an article from the 1940s (1930's maybe?) that said automation would soon cut the workday in half.  Never happened.

I'm not saying it can't happen, just that people have been saying this forever.  :shrug:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Japan's Labor Shortage & Immigration Laws [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #25967985 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
I read an article from the 1940s (1930's maybe?) that said automation would soon cut the workday in half.  Never happened.

I'm not saying it can't happen, just that people have been saying this forever.  :shrug:



Your not wrong but this time it really will be different unless some brand new job appears that can magically employ millions of low skill workers. The automation of truck driving in particular will have disastrous effects for the working class in the US.


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https://youtu.be/cTsEzmFamZ8

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Re: Japan's Labor Shortage & Immigration Laws [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 2
    #25967988 -

Yeah I’d like to see a citation for the claim that technology has been a net destroyer of jobs for almost 20 years.

Automated manufacturing has existed for like a century.


--------------------
Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

I’m sorry it had to be me.

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Re: Japan's Labor Shortage & Immigration Laws [Re: qman] * 1
    #25967994 -

qman said:
:whathesaid:

Technology has been a net destroyer of jobs for almost 20 years and it's just going to accelerate in the coming years.



Then how do explain the current unemployment rate:



--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Japan's Labor Shortage & Immigration Laws [Re: christopera]
    #25967996 -

christopera said:
Yeah I’d like to see a citation for the claim that technology has been a net destroyer of jobs for almost 20 years.

Automated manufacturing has existed for like a century.



https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/21/upshot/the-long-term-jobs-killer-is-not-china-its-automation.html


--------------------
https://youtu.be/cTsEzmFamZ8

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Re: Japan's Labor Shortage & Immigration Laws [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #25967997 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
qman said:
:whathesaid:

Technology has been a net destroyer of jobs for almost 20 years and it's just going to accelerate in the coming years.



Then how do explain the current unemployment rate:





Labor force participation rate is what matters and its abysmal in the US. The unemployment rate does not tell the full story just like GDP doesn't tell you how healthy or happy a society is.


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https://youtu.be/cTsEzmFamZ8

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Re: Japan's Labor Shortage & Immigration Laws [Re: YangSupporter]
    #25968008 -

YangSupporter said:
Labor force participation rate is what matters and its abysmal in the US.



No, it's not.  Why should we care if more people are going to college or retiring early?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Japan's Labor Shortage & Immigration Laws [Re: YangSupporter] * 1
    #25968012 -

YangSupporter said:
christopera said:
Yeah I’d like to see a citation for the claim that technology has been a net destroyer of jobs for almost 20 years.

Automated manufacturing has existed for like a century.



https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/21/upshot/the-long-term-jobs-killer-is-not-china-its-automation.html



That article doesn’t claim that technology is a net destroyer of jobs for almost 20 years.

Nobody disputes that technology displaces or replaces existing jobs, but that doens’t mean there’s a net destruction of jobs. For example the mechanized saw mill meant we could build structures at an increased pace. This meant a net increase in jobs. If your job was to hand scraper wood your job was lost. Just like if you are witch doctor you probably got replaced by real doctor and antibiotics. Times change.


--------------------
Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

I’m sorry it had to be me.

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Re: Japan's Labor Shortage & Immigration Laws [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #25968015 -

https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/labor-force-participation-rate 63 percent is not good it means that there are structural issues with our economy. They aren't all students or retirees. The reason Trump won was we automated away millions of manufacturing jobs and most of those workers ended up filing for disability and those communities were devastated. The workers didn't retrain they gave up drug abuse and alcoholism are rampant in areas where automation decimated manufacturing work.

https://www.crainsdetroit.com/article/20150726/NEWS/307269975/disability-rolls-surge-in-state


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https://youtu.be/cTsEzmFamZ8

Edited by YangSupporter (05/02/19 01:20 PM)

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Re: Japan's Labor Shortage & Immigration Laws [Re: christopera]
    #25968023 -

christopera said:
YangSupporter said:
christopera said:
Yeah I’d like to see a citation for the claim that technology has been a net destroyer of jobs for almost 20 years.

Automated manufacturing has existed for like a century.



https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/21/upshot/the-long-term-jobs-killer-is-not-china-its-automation.html



That article doesn’t claim that technology is a net destroyer of jobs for almost 20 years.

Nobody disputes that technology displaces or replaces existing jobs, but that doens’t mean there’s a net destruction of jobs. For example the mechanized saw mill meant we could build structures at an increased pace. This meant a net increase in jobs. If your job was to hand scraper wood your job was lost. Just like if you are witch doctor you probably got replaced by real doctor and antibiotics. Times change.



Your right times do change but its not going to be good for the working class if we continue down this road.


--------------------
https://youtu.be/cTsEzmFamZ8

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Re: Japan's Labor Shortage & Immigration Laws [Re: YangSupporter]
    #25968032 -

Have you ever worked with anything that is computer numerical control (CNC) or in a manufacturing environment such as line work?


--------------------
Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

I’m sorry it had to be me.

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Re: Japan's Labor Shortage & Immigration Laws [Re: YangSupporter]
    #25968034 -

YangSupporter said:
https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/labor-force-participation-rate 63 percent is not good it means that there are structural issues with our economy. They aren't all students or retirees. The reason Trump won was we automated away millions of manufacturing jobs and most of those workers ended up filing for disability and those communities were devastated. The workers didn't retrain they gave up drug abuse and alcoholism are rampant in areas where automation decimated manufacturing work.



No.

You're confusing labor participation rate with U6 unemployment.
Quote:
What is the U-6 Rate?

The U-6 rate is the unemployment rate that includes discouraged workers who have quit looking for a job and part-time workers who are seeking full-time employment. The U-6 rate is considered by many economists to be the most revealing measure of a country’s unemployment situation since it covers the percentage of the labor force that is unemployed, underemployed and discouraged.



U6 unemployment is near an all time low right now.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Japan's Labor Shortage & Immigration Laws [Re: christopera]
    #25968038 -

christopera said:
Have you ever worked with anything that is computer numerical control (CNC) or in a manufacturing environment such as line work?



I have done manufacturing work yes temp worker I basically boxed up the product and then put it on a dolly and moved it to the warehouse. I could very easily see that being automated.


--------------------
https://youtu.be/cTsEzmFamZ8

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Re: Japan's Labor Shortage & Immigration Laws [Re: YangSupporter] * 2
    #25968072 -

Some jobs are better off automated. Repetitive jobs especially so. Jobs needing utmost precision, definitely so.

You should try to find Woof's thread on the replacement of truck drivers. It's not the threat you think it is.


--------------------
Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

I’m sorry it had to be me.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Japan's Labor Shortage & Immigration Laws [Re: christopera] * 1
    #25968091 -



--------------------
Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

I’m sorry it had to be me.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Japan's Labor Shortage & Immigration Laws [Re: christopera]
    #25968228 -

The irony of futurevautomation, in my view, is that when true AI comes along, the tradespeople will be much harder to replace than the programmers.  Everyone that L2 code will be in hot water

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Re: Japan's Labor Shortage & Immigration Laws [Re: ballsalsa]
    #25968242 -

ballsalsa said:
The irony of futurevautomation, in my view, is that when true AI comes along, the tradespeople will be much harder to replace than the programmers.  Everyone that L2 code will be in hot water



Yang talks about that automating a plumbers job would take technology we don't have yet. However automating truck driving and call centers are going to happen within the next decade. Also christopera I am doing research as I type to bring in some sources that show the job loss. I'll also read through the thread you linked :thumbup:


--------------------
https://youtu.be/cTsEzmFamZ8

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Re: Japan's Labor Shortage & Immigration Laws [Re: YangSupporter] * 2
    #25968247 -

We'll see what teamsters have to say about that.

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