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Re: Biden 2020 [Re: SirTripAlot] * 1
    #25863433 -

The masses love Trump. The masses hate Trump. The masses loved Obama. The masses hated Obama.

The difference is nothing.

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Re: Biden 2020 [Re: Pinkerton] * 1
    #25863442 -

Unless I'm out of the loop, I don't see the same scale and division between their respective presidencies.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

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Re: Biden 2020 [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #25863448 -

Maybe not.

What I'm trying to convey is that hordes of people will bitch about the next president regardless of who gets elected. It's a different kind of bitching but it's roughly the same tripe. "Poor me." Me thinks it's about time to do something about it. Like I'm trying to do on the shroomery. :heart:

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Re: Biden 2020 [Re: SirTripAlot] * 2
    #25863550 -

To be fair to you, I concede that Obama was more or less a polished version of Trump.  When you get right down to policy, how much different are the two?  Not very.  I think the bitching is justified from both sides, depending on the reasons it occurs in the first place.  Obama was sort of like Trump-Lite.  I voted for Obama because I was disillusioned with 8 years of Bush; it was the worst decision I have made when it comes to voting for a political candidate.  I hope to hell that Biden does not enter the race and fuck things up for Bernie.  Even if Biden were to win, I would not be a happy camper. 


Obama's track record (not all inclusive):

1) Extended the Bush-era tax cuts.

2) Extended the Patriot Act and allowed for spying of American citizens through the NSA's Project XKEYSCORE.

3) Sanctioned countless drone strikes that killed and displaced civilian populations throughout the Middle East.

4) Gave the swamp of Wall Street various cabinet and other government positions, and rewarded Wall Street CEOs with bailout money for the economic recession. 

5) Imprisoned whistle blowers who reported human rights violations. 

6) Pretended like he cared for the working class and minorities, but overall failed to implement policies that actually benefited them.

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Re: Biden 2020 [Re: Asclepius]
    #25864681 -

What about John Kerry? Do you think Biden would be better than Kerry?

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Re: Biden 2020 [Re: Asclepius] * 1
    #25864847 -

Asclepius said:
To be fair to you, I concede that Obama was more or less a polished version of Trump.  When you get right down to policy, how much different are the two?  Not very.  I think the bitching is justified from both sides, depending on the reasons it occurs in the first place.  Obama was sort of like Trump-Lite.  I voted for Obama because I was disillusioned with 8 years of Bush; it was the worst decision I have made when it comes to voting for a political candidate.  I hope to hell that Biden does not enter the race and fuck things up for Bernie.  Even if Biden were to win, I would not be a happy camper. 


Obama's track record (not all inclusive):

1) Extended the Bush-era tax cuts.

2) Extended the Patriot Act and allowed for spying of American citizens through the NSA's Project XKEYSCORE.

3) Sanctioned countless drone strikes that killed and displaced civilian populations throughout the Middle East.

4) Gave the swamp of Wall Street various cabinet and other government positions, and rewarded Wall Street CEOs with bailout money for the economic recession. 

5) Imprisoned whistle blowers who reported human rights violations. 

6) Pretended like he cared for the working class and minorities, but overall failed to implement policies that actually benefited them.


I will agree with you that the Obama presidency had a lot of disappointments, but beyond that it is hard to make comparisons. You said Obama put Wall Street bigshots in the cabinet. True. I was disgusted when he allowed Wall Street to give out much of the bailout money as bonuses to the people who orchestrated the collapse.  But Trump has filled his cabinet with people with no qualifications whatsoever. The Secretary of State has never held a political or military position. WTF. The Secretary of Education never attended a public or parochial school. WTF. The Generals and Admirals that confer with Trump are dumbfounded that he literally knows nothing. So we have replaced bad decisions with completely braindead.

I wouldn't compare the Trump administration with Obama. I would compare it with W because he was equally a complete moron. But there was one huge difference. George W Bush was surrounded by completely evil men like Dick Cheney and Karl Rove, but they weren't stupid, they were very smart.

In the Trump administration any normal person who ever held a position is long gone. There are literally no adults left in the room.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

Simulacrum
The truth which conceals that there is none

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Re: Biden 2020 [Re: Brian Jones]
    #25864864 -

John Bolton is on CBS right now trying to spin trumps love affair with Kim as hardline diplomacy, but he’s just a hawk with clipped wings.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: Biden 2020 [Re: koods] * 3
    #25864938 -

John Bolton is a great example of a guy who should never be holding a high office.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

Simulacrum
The truth which conceals that there is none

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Re: Biden 2020 [Re: Brian Jones] * 2
    #25865395 -

Brian Jones said:
I will agree with you that the Obama presidency had a lot of disappointments, but beyond that it is hard to make comparisons. You said Obama put Wall Street bigshots in the cabinet. True. I was disgusted when he allowed Wall Street to give out much of the bailout money as bonuses to the people who orchestrated the collapse.  But Trump has filled his cabinet with people with no qualifications whatsoever. The Secretary of State has never held a political or military position. WTF. The Secretary of Education never attended a public or parochial school. WTF. The Generals and Admirals that confer with Trump are dumbfounded that he literally knows nothing. So we have replaced bad decisions with completely braindead.

I wouldn't compare the Trump administration with Obama. I would compare it with W because he was equally a complete moron. But there was one huge difference. George W Bush was surrounded by completely evil men like Dick Cheney and Karl Rove, but they weren't stupid, they were very smart.

In the Trump administration any normal person who ever held a position is long gone. There are literally no adults left in the room.


If Trump is like Bush, then Trump is like Obama. Obama and Bush's presidencies were virtually identical.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"No my dog won't bite you, tho it had the right to. You ought to give him credit, cuz he knows I woulda let him" - Modest Mouse (And Wooof!)
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns


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Re: Biden 2020 [Re: mel92] * 3
    #25865407 -

I think they are both equally bad.  They're both corporatist, establishment, status quo hacks that wouldn't change a damn thing.

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Re: Biden 2020 [Re: Brian Jones] * 1
    #25865516 -

I think overall the outcome from their policy decisions are about the same.  The key difference is that Obama supported a handful of progressive social issues whereas the Trump Administration does not.  It's sickening to think Obama and his administration were at least smart enough to know what they were doing, as you said, and yet failed to deliver meaningful change.  Trump and his cabinet are filled with morons -- I don't dispute that -- but the end result is comparable.  Obama merely continued Bush-era policies.  I also blame him for Trump getting elected.

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Re: Biden 2020 [Re: ballsalsa] * 2
    #25892269 -

Here's a great article about Joe Biden from The Intercept:

Joe Biden Is Hillary Clinton 2.0 — Democrats Would Be Mad to Nominate Him

Quote:
Iraq War supporter? Check.
Friend of Wall Street? Check.
Champion of mass incarceration? Check.
Establishment-friendly? Check.
Gaffe-prone? Check.
Loser? Check.


Each of the above points are supported by the article.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Biden 2020 [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 3
    #25892701 -

It would be rather tragic if the way to get rid of Trump is to elect Biden, but still better because we could if nothing else normalize relations with our allies.

In the months ahead I want to see a lot of polling data about head to head, real progressives against Trump, so we know how much we do or don't have to compromise our ideals to win this election.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

Simulacrum
The truth which conceals that there is none

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