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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > The Psychedelic Experience
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Re: All LSD is not exactly the same [Re: bodhisatta]
    #25833261 -

Blind testing yourself leaves room error Bill, humans are smart creatures and know what we're doing even when we're apparently unaware. If you get someone else to do it you know it's really blind.

bodhi... Set and setting takes a part of any psychedelic experience but when you always trip at home alone and only when your ready for it and comfortable, those variables go out the window. If I go down the beach or the cafe or somewhere things can start varying wildly, but the base effect in my safe zone is measurable qualitatively for me.

I've been taking acid about 25 years now, not that that means much really, but differences are apparent and verifiable in my perspective.


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We are the music makers, the dreamers of dreams.

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Re: All LSD is not exactly the same [Re: Northerner] * 1
    #25833536 -

Assuming each batch is highly pure LSD, then any perceived differences are subjective. LSD is a discrete molecular entity, and if you were to do a double blind dose study multiple times, you would not reliably detect a difference. If differences were noted, it would suggest that impurities are shaping the experience, or you are working with two different molecules.

This is like saying that some bottles of aspirin work better than others. This might be true in a small sample size due to variations in diet, metabolism, mindset, etc. But with enough replicates in a controlled study, these differences come out in the wash.

That being said, it would be interesting to analyze the impurities present in different batches of LSD to determine if bioactive impurities could explain any differences that did hold up in a controlled study.

Edited by breeg89 (02/23/19 11:36 PM)

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Re: All LSD is not exactly the same [Re: breeg89] * 1
    #25834017 -

Unless those impurities are also neurologically active they would only serve to dilute the lsd.


--------------------
Everything you need in one spot.

My Q&A thread. Ask me questions here rather than in Private Message
Bod's chat thread

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Re: All LSD is not exactly the same [Re: Northerner]
    #25834169 -

Northerner said:
Blind testing yourself leaves room error Bill, humans are smart creatures and know what we're doing even when we're apparently unaware. If you get someone else to do it you know it's really blind.

bodhi... Set and setting takes a part of any psychedelic experience but when you always trip at home alone and only when your ready for it and comfortable, those variables go out the window. If I go down the beach or the cafe or somewhere things can start varying wildly, but the base effect in my safe zone is measurable qualitatively for me.

I've been taking acid about 25 years now, not that that means much really, but differences are apparent and verifiable in my perspective.



That's what I meant, my bad. But like I said I'm so sure that batches have different characteristics that I'm not going to use my time on that at this moment. Someday maybe.

Why do people act like LSD is some magic chemical nobody can study on themselves? Yes set and setting and all that but if you do it in a room by yourself and study the effects, you can lock down it's effects pretty easily. Lsd isn't this forever changing drug where you can't get a grip of what it is and what it does


--------------------
Something there is mysteriously formed,
Existing before Heaven and Earth,
Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging,
All-pervading, unfailing,
I do not know its name; I call it tao.
If forced to give it a name, I call it
Great (ta). Being great, it flows out;
Flowing out means far-reaching;
Being far-reaching, it is said to return.

It's just a shot away..

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Re: All LSD is not exactly the same [Re: bodhisatta]
    #25834493 -

bodhisatta said:
Unless those impurities are also neurologically active they would only serve to dilute the lsd.


Agreed, I think this scenario is unlikely - especially because the impurities would have to be neuroactive at low microgram doses. If you have LSD that's 90% pure with an impurity making up 10%, and you take 100 ug, then that impurity would have to be active at around 10 ug.

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Re: All LSD is not exactly the same [Re: breeg89]
    #25834611 -

Most theoretical impurities would require a larger dose than lsd but lsd is shrouded in even more bullshit than mushrooms


--------------------
Everything you need in one spot.

My Q&A thread. Ask me questions here rather than in Private Message
Bod's chat thread

5g a day keeps the 5g away

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Re: All LSD is not exactly the same [Re: bodhisatta]
    #25834662 -

The known impurities are not known to be psychologically active, but this doesn't mean they don't have an effect especially under a state of such enhanced awareness of LSD, the smallest influence could alter the experience.

Aside from that, I believe each LSD is unique down to purity, who made it, who handled it, how it was stored, polymorphism of the crystal, and the intentions and energies surrounding it. It's a sensitive crystal so I don't see why it wouldn't pick up on its energetic surroundings and reflect them into the experience. Same with any crystal or drug in crystal form for that matter(the more pure, the more sensitive)

Of course it could all be bs too, I'm open to both sides


--------------------
"In The Material World One seeks retirement and grows Old
In The Magical World One seeks Enlightenment and grows Wiser
In The Miraculous World One seeks nothing and grows Lighter
As we all tread the Homeward Path we will explore many Realms
And one day... we will all Realize that all experiences are Simply
Different ways in which The
All-That Is
Perceives Itself"

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Re: All LSD is not exactly the same [Re: Eclipse3130] * 3
    #25834671 -

Quote:
Aside from that, I believe each LSD is unique down to purity, who made it, who handled it, how it was stored, polymorphism of the crystal, and the intentions and energies surrounding it. It's a sensitive crystal so I don't see why it wouldn't pick up on its energetic surroundings and reflect them into the experience. Same with any crystal or drug in crystal form for that matter(the more pure, the more sensitive)



I think part of the problem with the bad info and BS surrounding LSD is that a lot of people that are prone to trying psychedelics are people who actually think vibe enhanced molecules are possible.


--------------------
Everything you need in one spot.

My Q&A thread. Ask me questions here rather than in Private Message
Bod's chat thread

5g a day keeps the 5g away

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Re: All LSD is not exactly the same [Re: bodhisatta] * 1
    #25834687 -

And this is one reason i prefer oral DMT or mushrooms or 4-ACO-DMT. LSD is overrated imo, sure it's good, but there's better out there and there's too much woo woo with LSD when it comes to it's purity and dosing and "vibes from chemists" and all, just give me an active compound i can use and i'm good lol.


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Re: All LSD is not exactly the same [Re: Sabnock]
    #25834689 -

I even gave my girl her first Psilohuasca dose on Friday, she said she definitely prefers that so far over LSD, way more awesome.


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Re: All LSD is not exactly the same [Re: Sabnock] * 2
    #25834792 -

LSD in the perfect dose is a VERY satisfying experience.  The "problem" (such that it may be) with LSD is that consistent dosing is so damned difficult (maybe impossible) due to the the myriad of factors, many of which are already adumbrated in this thread.

Chief amongst the dosing conundrum are variations in the purity and the laying of the product, degradation/exposure of the product, cross tolerance...and on and on.  So, establishing and repeating your own personal"perfect" dose is virtually impossible.

So many other molecules do not have that issue.  Take mushrooms.  My technique is to grow a large amount, dry and powder.  The fine powder is then "homogenized" by thoroughly mixing in a Ball jar.  Now 2.5 grams is 2.5 grams...every time.  Same thing with DMT.  Extract a couple of grams of powder.  Mix thoroughly, weigh carefully - and you have a pretty damned reliable, repeatable result...if you vaporize it all each time.


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All submitted posts under this user name are works of pure fiction or outright lies.  Any information, statement, or assertion contained therein should be considered pure unadulterated bullshit.  Note well:  Sorry, but I do not answer PM's unless you are a long-time trusted friend.  If you have a question, ask it in the appropriate thread.

                                                                               

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Re: All LSD is not exactly the same [Re: Nature Boy]
    #25834912 -

I find the DMT experience varies wildly every time, the visuals are just so intense and unpredictable past the first 10 seconds. Mushies a bit less so, but still that tryptamine randomness. LSD seems predictable in doses <200ug.

That's something I didn't think about earlier in this thread. That higher range doses of acid really have that "roll the dice" type element. Tiny bits of stimulus or even a random thought can massively alter the direction of the trip, very much like what I would call a standard tryptamine dose. I never really considered the undertone of these trips before either.

I had a short discussion before with a friend who is a chemist who agreed that all LSD25 is not made equal. I didn't really get into the why's with him as we were in agreeance, but I'll hit him up and see what he says.


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We are the music makers, the dreamers of dreams.

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Re: All LSD is not exactly the same [Re: Northerner] * 2
    #25835026 -

bodhisatta said:
Unless those impurities are also neurologically active they would only serve to dilute the lsd.




They aren't active.


According to Dr. David Nichols, the fella who synthed the L for the MAPS studies....At least in regards to the "impurity" iso-lsd specifically, it does nothing to change the character of LSD's effects.


"No, we actually screened iso-LSD and it doesn’t have significant affinity for any receptors. I had wondered whether contamination by iso-LSD might change the character of LSD’s effect, but that doesn’t seem possible." - Dr. Nichols


That quote/excerpt is taken from this>>>>


Quote:
.....Although to be fair, the statement "it's either LSD or it isn't" is only accurate if we are also including its isomers in our definition of what LSD is. Even if theoretically the chemist did synthesize 100% (+)-D-LSD, there is theoretically always going to be some form of degradation (unless you can keep it -20 celcius from the time of laying the blotter to the time someone doses or some other miracle.) If the chemists nowadays push out product anywhere near as quick as they used to you can imagine they are going to cut corners here and there, or not always have the same chemical reactions, resulting in (+)-D-LSD along with its isomers only. We've studied the isomers of LSD, they don't do shit.

I've talked with Dr. Dave Nichols explicitly on the subject matter of receptor effects he said, "No, we actually screened iso-LSD and it doesn’t have significant affinity for any receptors. I had wondered whether contamination by iso-LSD might change the character of LSD’s effect, but that doesn’t seem possible." Since iso-LSD is the only isomer that can be synthesized along with the active (+)-D-LSD in most common syntheses done, the only way to get L-LSD is by treating an ergot with hydrazine hydrate to prepare lysergic acid hydrazide, and thence to LSD (or iso-LSD), Hofmann’s original method. Hydrazine racemizes the carbon at C5. Lumi-LSD only appears as a result of time and storage but it also has no effect..... 

https://www.reddit.com/r/LSD/comments/1yyrvv/where_is_all_this_lsd_coming_from/cfpqqfl/











Sabnock said:
And this is one reason i prefer oral DMT or mushrooms or 4-ACO-DMT. LSD is overrated imo, sure it's good, but there's better out there and there's too much woo woo with LSD when it comes to it's purity and dosing and "vibes from chemists" and all, just give me an active compound i can use and i'm good lol.



I hear you on that 100%.

There is soooo much woo talk when it comes to LSD specifically. I just eat my LSD and have my trip, I have not noticed any consistent qualities that certain sheets/"batches" of L have compared to others. But maybe it's because the majority of the L I've ate over the past 10+ years is coming from the same source :shrug: .

I thoroughly enjoy a proper acid trip :tongue2: , but yea I'm much more of a tryptamine fella.








Northerner said:
I find the DMT experience varies wildly every time, the visuals are just so intense and unpredictable past the first 10 seconds. Mushies a bit less so, but still that tryptamine randomness.



Every smoked DMT experience is totally random and differnet for me each time. There are certain "themes" and certain visual aspects that are the same, but the overall experience is like the epitome of random...It really is like a roll of the dice.

But I don't feel these different exepriences are coming from different "types" or different "batches" of DMT....that's just the nature of the stuff.






-OM

.


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Re: All LSD is not exactly the same [Re: openmind] * 1
    #25835035 -

LSD is LSD and all molecule of the same structure and composition are identical and have identical biological effects.

The blotters may contain small amounts of active degradation products and they may differ from batches to batches depending on the reason of degradation.

All LSD is the same, but blotters and impurities vary.

- Captain Obvious


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Re: All LSD is not exactly the same [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
    #25835036 -

I got some of those.



I noticed the auditory effects are very minimal with these.


--------------------
-My ISO list-

-My trade list-

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Re: All LSD is not exactly the same [Re: openmind] * 2
    #25835056 -

If it was different at a molecular level then it wouldn't be LSD...so that's bullshit. Any impurities are inactive...so that's bullshit. Molecules don't magically pick up on vibrations or hocus pocus...so that's bullshit. You don't become hyper-sensitive to different nonsense 'vibrational frequencies' of different LSD molecules...so that's bullshit.

I wish this argument would die.

Just because you're incapable of logical and intelligent critical analysis of your trips doesn't actually mean there are genuine differences between batches of LSD other than the dose on the blotter.

Your psychology will be infinitely variable from trip to trip. Consequently you can expect infinite variability from trip to trip.

Why are so many new-age, misguided people drawn to psychedelics?? Like flies to shit!


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Throw down your umbilical noose so I can climb right back

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Re: All LSD is not exactly the same [Re: MrCraggles]
    #25835083 -

MrCraggles said:
If it was different at a molecular level then it wouldn't be LSD...so that's bullshit. Any impurities are inactive...so that's bullshit. Molecules don't magically pick up on vibrations or hocus pocus...so that's bullshit. You don't become hyper-sensitive to different nonsense 'vibrational frequencies' of different LSD molecules...so that's bullshit.

I wish this argument would die.

Just because you're incapable of logical and intelligent critical analysis of your trips doesn't actually mean there are genuine differences between batches of LSD other than the dose on the blotter.

Your psychology will be infinitely variable from trip to trip. Consequently you can expect infinite variability from trip to trip.

Why are so many new-age, misguided people drawn to psychedelics?? Like flies to shit!


Slow down mister scientist lol. Impurities are inactive? If you mean isomers of LSD are inactive yeah but metabolites and derivatives have been researched and published decades ago.

link

I'm not saying my hypothesis is fact, but it is not bullshit, although I think set and setting and placebo effect are the culprit here.


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Re: All LSD is not exactly the same *DELETED* [Re: MrCraggles] * 1
    #25835097 -

Post deleted by WhoManBeing

Reason for deletion: .

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Re: All LSD is not exactly the same [Re: RebeccaBlack]
    #25835905 -

Daijo said:
MrCraggles said:
If it was different at a molecular level then it wouldn't be LSD...so that's bullshit. Any impurities are inactive...so that's bullshit. Molecules don't magically pick up on vibrations or hocus pocus...so that's bullshit. You don't become hyper-sensitive to different nonsense 'vibrational frequencies' of different LSD molecules...so that's bullshit.

I wish this argument would die.

Just because you're incapable of logical and intelligent critical analysis of your trips doesn't actually mean there are genuine differences between batches of LSD other than the dose on the blotter.

Your psychology will be infinitely variable from trip to trip. Consequently you can expect infinite variability from trip to trip.

Why are so many new-age, misguided people drawn to psychedelics?? Like flies to shit!


Slow down mister scientist lol. Impurities are inactive? If you mean isomers of LSD are inactive yeah but metabolites and derivatives have been researched and published decades ago.

link

I'm not saying my hypothesis is fact, but it is not bullshit, although I think set and setting and placebo effect are the culprit here.


Metabolites and derivatives are not LSD. Any actives that form through degradation are going to be in tiny amounts and there will not be enough present to have an effect/change the trip. Derivatives would need to be consciously and deliberately synthesised. They wouldn't be created as an accidental byproduct of LSD synthesis. So they're not going to be present on your blotter of LSD, and they're not going to change the trajectory of the trip.

If they're present on your blotter then you're not consuming LSD.

My points stand.


--------------------
Throw down your umbilical noose so I can climb right back

Edited by MrCraggles (02/25/19 08:19 AM)

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Re: All LSD is not exactly the same [Re: WhoManBeing] * 1
    #25835914 -

WhoManBeing said:
MrCraggles said:
Why are so many new-age, misguided people drawn to psychedelics?? Like flies to shit!


We can all have a slice of the pie. Who cares where you come from or how got there to here, medicine for better to all.


Psychedelics just aren't good for everyone. Fact.

These forums have made me see the extent to which they appear to encourage magical thinking and detach some people even further from accepting logic, rationale or objective reality. That isn't good for them or for society.

Psychedelics have enormous potential but they also have the capacity for damage and  for encouraging nonsensensical thinking.

We don't need more bullshit in society we need less.

Some of the stuff I read on these forums does sometimes concern me. It doesn't look good on our community or on psychedelic use at all when you see people talking about some of the far-out nonsense you see on here, and when you realise that nonsense was encouraged by their use of psychedelics.

Keep it together guys and stay reasoned and rational.


--------------------
Throw down your umbilical noose so I can climb right back

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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > The Psychedelic Experience
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