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OfflineLearyfan
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Does more low quality LSD = high quality LSD?
    #672582 - 06/11/02 05:09 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

I always hear about how great LSD was in the 60's. Sandoz and Owsley were two kinds of LSD that were supposed to have been absolutely mind blowing, and WAY better than anything you'll experience today.

Is it possible to experience LSD the way it was experienced in the 60's?

If you take a 10 strip of todays acid(average dose), would the effects be similar to 60's acid?

Was there something about 60's acid that cannot be duplicated or what?















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Mp3 of the month: The Loose Enz - The Black Door



Edited by Learyfan (01/28/14 12:16 AM)


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Offlinewintertime
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Re: Does more low quality LSD = high quality LSD? [Re: Learyfan]
    #672612 - 06/11/02 05:47 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

In the words of Mr. Leary:
"Like any successful wizard, A.O.S.3. (Owsley) is a good scientist. Radar-sensitive in hid obsevations. Exacting, meticulous, pedantic about his procedures. He has grandiose delusions about the quality of his acid. 'Listen, man, LSD is a delicate, fragile molecule. It responds to the vibrations of the chemist.'"

Maybe 60's acid was made with love


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OfflineLearyfan
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Re: Does more low quality LSD = high quality LSD? [Re: wintertime]
    #672640 - 06/11/02 06:17 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

haha, that makes sense

















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Mp3 of the month: The Loose Enz - The Black Door



Edited by Learyfan (01/28/14 12:17 AM)


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OfflineGmiadlicher
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Re: Does more low quality LSD = high quality LSD? [Re: Learyfan]
    #672840 - 06/11/02 09:23 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Most of the shit sold today

ISNT LSD

I think we are lucky that it isnt.....


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Respect, consider and take every form of Life seriously... especially Plants and Trees


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Anonymous

Re: Does more low quality LSD = high quality LSD? [Re: Learyfan]
    #672844 - 06/11/02 09:25 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

I read on erowid I think that a standard dose of lsd was 300 micrograms.. and is moer diluted now to 100 micrograms. I think thats what it said...

And.. what do people pass off as lsd these days?


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Offlineindicaz
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Re: Does more low quality LSD = high quality LSD? [Re: Gmiadlicher]
    #672849 - 06/11/02 09:28 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

technically with the advent of modern science and modern tools the LSD should be better these days, but with the modern laws its impossible to get the needed chemicals. so lsd lacks...

people say the weed was better in the 60's too but thats not factual, new techniques have been developed and new tools make it easier to grow new and extremely potent bud.


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OfflineLearyfan
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Re: Does more low quality LSD = high quality LSD? [Re: indicaz]
    #672948 - 06/11/02 10:47 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

I've never heard anyone say that the weed was better in the 60's. It's obviously better today.

So is everyone saying that the answer to my question is "yes, if you take more shitty LSD, it's very similar to Sandoz or Owsley LSD"? Something doesn't sound right about that, but it makes sense.

















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Mp3 of the month: The Loose Enz - The Black Door



Edited by Learyfan (01/28/14 12:18 AM)


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Offlinedirk gently
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Re: Does more low quality LSD = high quality LSD? [Re: Learyfan]
    #672961 - 06/11/02 10:56 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Check out the old high times article "LSD PURITY - CLEANLINESS IS NEXT TO GODLINESS" by Bruce Eisner. I think its on erowid.

Even though its 25 years old and not from the most respected "science" journal in the world , it has some ideas about LSD purity that I haven't seen anywhere else.

In reply to:

Timothy Scully told me that both he and Owsley
believed the tolerable limits of impurities to be on(e) tenth of a percentage point (requiring 99.9% purity)...




If this is true, then its no wonder why today's acid is not the same as that from the 60's. This would mean that there is some impurity (cyclized lysergides, decomposition product, side rxn product, homologue, etc) that has a similar potency to LSD, but produces less desirable drug effects. This theory would be easy to study, but there isn't a lot of LSD research going on these days for some reason . So I don't know if this has been confirmed or not since then.

The LSD synthesis and purfication is difficult enough to make 99.9% purity very unlikely by underground chemists. As long as its predominantly about money it is not worth the extra efforts for them to achieve this.

Of course, theres also the fact that a typical hit contains much lower amounts of lsd than 30 years ago. 200ug was common then, 50ug is common now.

http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd_writings1.shtml

edit:link added



Edited by dirk gently (06/11/02 11:10 AM)


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OfflineTeKHeAD009
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Re: Does more low quality LSD = high quality LSD? [Re: Learyfan]
    #673022 - 06/11/02 11:51 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

From what I've read, no, more of todays acid wouldnt be like the 60's LSD.
LSD-25 is pure LSD
ACID is whats around today, impure LSD

Like someone else said, the last purification steps in the synthesis of LSD usually arnt performed today. Its about the money, and if you can make more money in a shorter amount of time, then why not cut a corner.

http://leda.lycaeum.org/quickindex.shtml - better then erowid for LSD
http://www.psychedelic-library.org/ - just interesting stuff.


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OfflineTeKHeAD009
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Re: Does more low quality LSD = high quality LSD? [Re: TeKHeAD009]
    #673037 - 06/11/02 11:59 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Correct me if I'm wrong, I'm only going by what I remember reading a few years ago.


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Offlinebaraka
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Re: Does more low quality LSD = high quality LSD? [Re: TeKHeAD009]
    #673079 - 06/11/02 12:27 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

sigh.... Its either LSD or its not LSD. The only difference is how much lsd the hits contain. LSD in the 60's where usually more potent then the ones today.


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Offlinebaraka
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Re: Does more low quality LSD = high quality LSD? [Re: baraka]
    #673355 - 06/11/02 04:22 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

LSD is so active the measure it in micrograms. It HAS to be dilluted for making vials or gels. So none of its pure, id assume the dilute with water or alcohol in the vials ive seen.


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Offlinedirk gently
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Re: Does more low quality LSD = high quality LSD? [Re: baraka]
    #673903 - 06/11/02 10:11 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

In reply to:

sigh.... Its either LSD or its not LSD. The only difference is how much lsd the hits contain. LSD in the 60's where usually more potent then the ones today.





I would be inclined to think exactly as you do. LSD is too potent for impurities to be a factor. But I do find it interesting that both Owsley and Scully maintain that 99.9% purity is important. They are smart enough to realize that 200ug of LSD + 20ug unknown synthesis byproducts should = 200ug LSD. Maybe its just their egos talking years later about their superior techniques or something. And theres lots of people who swear that the pure LSD in the 60's (sandoz, then owsley) was noticeably better than todays even when taking into account the difference in amounts that were found. So I can't rule out the possibility that there is something to these arguments. The only way to find out for sure is to get some really pure acid from somebody and compare.

Shulgin's chapter in TIHKAL has some cool stuff on LSD analogs and some common breakdown products (that are inactive), but doesn't really say anything about this purity issue being real. But related compounds like LSA are known to have lots of non-psychedelic side effects, so it seems possible that something like this is at work with lousy acid.


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Re: Does more low quality LSD = high quality LSD? [Re: dirk gently] * 1
    #674152 - 06/12/02 04:57 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

LSD is too potent for impurities to be a factor.

It is not the potency of LSD in question, but that of the by-products. As what these may be and their possible effects are unknown, I doubt any of the respondents has the knowledge and equipment to test their hypothesis and offer a truly educated opinion.

It amazes me how everyone wants to jump in with a solid answer based on nothing at all. Would like to hear from degreeed chemists on this long-standing issue.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Anonymous

Re: Does more low quality LSD = high quality LSD? [Re: Swami]
    #674162 - 06/12/02 05:12 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Heres an answer based on SOMETHING.. LSD is active at 20-50 micrograms. LSA is not. If there are a few mics of LSA in LSD it probably wont be noticeable, unless youre taking a large dose.


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Offlinedirk gently
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Re: Does more low quality LSD = high quality LSD? [Re: Swami]
    #675187 - 06/12/02 04:50 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

In reply to:

It is not the potency of LSD in question, but that of the by-products.




Well, one implies the other. If you have, say 200ug of compound(s) on a 5mg piece of blotter, nothing else will be active except LSD, if present. Or thats the assumption anyway. I think everyone gets that by now. Point is, it may be more complicated than that. Something else may be, or become active enough to produce side effects that wouldn't occur with pure LSD. Worth mentioning, though I certainly can't prove thats the case. Maybe someone should ask AOS3.


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InvisibleRipple
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Re: Does more low quality LSD = high quality LSD? [Re: Learyfan]
    #678699 - 06/14/02 04:33 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Stanley Owsley (AKA Bear) Was an one of the first and in the opinion of many people of that time, the best makers of LSD 25. He was the one who supplied Ken Keasy's merry pranksters with the juce for the electric kool aid acid test's. I was lucky enough to sample what was supposidely Bear's stuff (or at least his formula) in 1974. This may be Bullshit but it sure was good. Much of the acid of today is cut with speed which is much cheeper to produce. Owsley's stuff was what propelled Neil Cassidy across the country driving the bus!


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The bus came by and I got on that's when it all began!



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InvisibleRipple
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Re: Does more low quality LSD = high quality LSD? [Re: Learyfan]
    #678702 - 06/14/02 04:35 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Oh in answer to your question. Maybe but maybe not! I would think not!


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OfflineCalimero
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Re: Does more low quality LSD = high quality LSD? [Re: Ripple]
    #679510 - 06/15/02 02:21 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Acid cut with speed?


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Offlinebaraka
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Re: Does more low quality LSD = high quality LSD? [Re: Calimero]
    #680731 - 06/15/02 06:07 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Cut with speed? What the hell are talking. People cant understand can they?

When was the last time you saw speed on a medium of a small piece of paper?


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