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Re: A music observation [Re: DustyBottoms]
    #25789792 -

I'm a deadhead.
But, the Grateful Dead's influence is really only felt in the jamband/hippie/festival niche.
Outside of that world, few musicians would call them an inspiration. (or even know what they sound like.) 
The Beatles on the other hand were a major influence on just about every musician in the past 50 years.

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Re: A music observation [Re: Lophosaurus] * 1
    #25789816 -

Lophosaurus said:
Near Dylan said:
No it doesn't, bro, it's just campy jam music for hippies lol. Most one dimensional BS there is. "Emotion" lol. Unless the only emotion youre looked for is "stoned", the Grateful Dead aren't gonna give you a very wide spectrum :lol:


Yeah, hippies like it. Good job noticing that. Do you think music isn't good if hippies like it? You sound like you just hate hippies because it makes you feel cool or edgy.

Saying you have to be high to enjoy their music is ridiculous and you could say that about any band and it would mean absolutely nothing. You don't have to be high to enjoy music. If it doesn't make you emotional then that is fine, but you can't deny that it makes other people feel emotion. Check out some concert footage and you'll see a wide range of emotion in the audience and band.

What band do you think has done more for music and had a bigger impact, and what has said band done?

the Beatles, The Rolling Stones, The Who, the kinks, David Bowie, bob dylan, steely Dan, p funk, Led Zeppelin, Jimi Hendrix experience, the velvet underground, the talking heads, Frank zappa.  I could sit here all morning and name bands that were better and more influential than the dead.

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Re: A music observation [Re: mendocino_beano]
    #25789826 -

I can sit here and exclusively name bands that ARENT GOOD but are still better and more influential than the Dead. The dead had more influence on the heroin and meth scene than they did music lol.


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Re: A music observation [Re: musiclover420]
    #25790089 -

musiclover420 said:
Lophosaurus said:
Near Dylan said:
Grateful Dead are by far the most overrated band in history. Just because they are popular just not make them good. That's why the term 'overrated' was invented.


I think that title belongs to Pink Floyd. That is some of the most boring garbage I have listened to. I can usually see why people like certain bands, even when I don't, but I just don't get Floyd.



Pink Floyd were just as if not more innovative, they pioneered a lot of crazy stuff. I have a feeling you haven't listened to enough, but they aren't for everyone. Just like the dead :shrug:

Quote:
I wouldn't say the Dead are over-rated at all. They are a great band and their style of music isn't really comparable to a lot of other bands. They don't make their music to be tight and technical. They improvise and provoke emotion and take you on a musical journey.


Have you listened to much other 60's/70's san fran rock groups? There are a fair amount of similar bands from around the same time period. The dead were fairly unique but their music is definitely comparable to other bands.


Yes, I have listened to other bands from that era. Who else can compare? Who else engineered their own equipment, made their own sound system, invented a taping section, made their own ticketing service, and basically invented the rave/wild house party with their acid tests? Who else from that era still has a huge following that tours consistently and sells out stadiums and large venues?


Grateful Dead doesn't cater to one specific group. They make good music for everybody to listen to. That is all a sterotype you built up in your mind Dylan. I meet all kinds of people at dead shows and there is a very wide variety. Everybody from dirtbag wooks to doctors, sports players, engineers, factory workers, and so on.

I could put a stereotype on any band you list and that has nothing to do with how good they are or if they were influential.

If they can make $50 million for 3 shows then they are a good band and they are influential, whether you like them or not. There is no arguing with $50 million.

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Re: A music observation [Re: Lophosaurus] * 1
    #25790102 -

Youre delusional :lol:

The dead are big because of hippies and only hippies. Without hippies, the Dead would be nothing. If a band would be absolutely nothing if they lost one single demographic, they probably aren't fair to put up along the "best who ever lived". Led Zepplin can lose 5 entire demographics and still be one of the biggest band that ever lived. Same with stones, beatles, etc. If the Dead lost hippies, they would cease to exist entirely. This is not "stereotyping". It is a fact. It is hippie music for hippies and will never be considered as some of the best music ever made, and that is one of the primary reasons. They could not reach a wider demographic because they did not try. The Greatful Dead would never even think to identify themselves as some of the greatest ever because they know how hilarious of a statement that is.

Big following =/= influential =/= some of the best music ever. All of the three are completely separate from each other. Dead has a big following. Period. And as I said, they're cntributions to recording and touring ethos were not nearly significant enough to place them on a pedestal as pioneers. Not even close. I get they probably have a soft spot for you, but if you think that "no one compares to the grateful dead" then you are musically naïve as fuck.


I mean, bro, they are mostly famous for how bad they are and how toxic of a fan base they have. Not remembered by the masses because of their music but because of their bad reputation as one-dimensional artists. That does not speak wonders for their legacy lol. They are a punchline band. Like Nickleback. 


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Re: A music observation [Re: Lophosaurus] * 1
    #25790106 -

Innovative is not the same as influential.
The Dead did things no one else was doing,they were early adopters of all sorts of technology.
But who really followed in those footsteps?
The fact remains that their influence on music as a whole is minimal.
Their lasting impact on the counter culture is something we could talk about all day. But outside of the jam/festival scene they are pretty irrelevant as influential musicians.

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Re: A music observation [Re: foragedfungus]
    #25790135 -

Exactly.

You just gotta expand your taste Lophosaurus. There is something seriously wrong when someone starts trying to make the genuine argument that the Grateful Dead were some of the best who ever lived :rofl2: They literally weren't even innovative technologically compared to their contemporaries in other areas of the field. As a whole, as fungus said, their impact was absolutely miniscule at the very best, and virtually non-existent if we're being realistic. Their innovations were extremely few and far between, especially when compared to other non-traditional bands of the time.

Like I said Lopho, listen to some more shit my guy. I know that you love the Dead and I totally understand and Im glad youre passionate about a band. But you are wrong on this my guy :lol: You can argue that they were good and make enjoyable music, but you cannot argue that they even compare to their contemporaries. You cant argue they were one of the best. You cant argue that their influence on music was massive. All those statement are completely false by all standards.


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Re: A music observation [Re: Near Dylan]
    #25790169 -

Ummmmmm, they did make lots of technological advancements, had top of the line gear, developed new ways of setting up and configuring said gear. the first to make that equipment work in a live tour setting.

So we could talk about their influence in the way live music is transmitted and recorded at concerts. That's still different from being influential musicians.

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Re: A music observation [Re: foragedfungus]
    #25790186 -

We could even argue that it wasn't the Grateful Dead, but Owsely Stanley (the sound engineer and acid cook for the dead) who was the most influential figure of the counter culture.

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Re: A music observation [Re: foragedfungus] * 2
    #25790232 -

So they bought good gear and utilized it effectively? And they were the FIRST to do so? Enough to where it's fair to credit them as like, what, pioneering the concept of having good equipment and using it to it's full potential? I mean cmon man. Live music would be the same today if the Dead never existed, as much as Dead fans like to think that the grateful dead invented jamming and finding ways to use their expensive gear to sound better live. This does not give them merit to wave the "innovation" flag. Maybe on their own, sure. But next to everyone else they're up against in the "greatest bands ever" argument? It would be laughable to refer to them as innovative or pioneering.

I'll say it again, if you think the Dead changed music, you probably listen to too much fuckin Grateful Dead and hippie jam bands. Cuz they fukin for sure didn't, and spawning a copy-cat culture does not exemplify influence or reach as much as it does reveal a catering to a target demographic and an ability to satisfy that demographics interests. They were happy to be enjoyed only by hippies and they were happy to keep it that way for the entirety of their career without the slightest attempt at expanding their vision beyond what was right in front of them from the start.


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Re: A music observation [Re: Near Dylan]
    #25790359 -

They did change the way sound systems are set up for large scale events. They were the loudest rock and roll band at the time. Owsley spent all the acid money on equipment for the band. Read about their wall of sound, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wall_of_Sound_(Grateful_Dead)
Truly innovative stuff. But not necessarily influential. Even they gave up on the project when it became to expensive and impractical.

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Re: A music observation [Re: foragedfungus]
    #25790383 -

Again, can they wave the innovative flag in their own right, standing alone? Sure they can. Does their innovation stand up to the innovation of others at the time? Not at all. Does it stand up as influential? Not at all, as you said. They bought expensive equipment and put great effort into making sure it sounded as good as they can get it to. Even if you wanna argue that they did it best, it does not stand up as some sort of turning point in music history. They created a great sound system, which turned out to be really impractical lol. End of story. Cool little project, nothing that puts them on a pedestal.


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Re: A music observation [Re: Near Dylan]
    #25790548 -

I disagree.
Quote:
Does their innovation stand up to the innovation of others at the time? Does it stand up as influential?


Yes, it was the biggest loudest clearest sound system of the time.
Yes, the way concert sound is presented and recorded was influenced in ways that are relevant today, they made real advancements.

I think we can make the argument that Owsley, not any band, was the most influential figure in music of the past 50years.

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Re: A music observation [Re: foragedfungus]
    #25790557 -

foragedfungus said:
I think we can make the argument that Owsley, not any band, was the most influential figure in music of the past 50years.


I find that to be a ridiculous overstatement and I feel like you are really puffing up his achievement as being muchhhhh more than it actually was


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Re: A music observation [Re: Near Dylan]
    #25790588 -

As the guy who  made over 5 million  doses of lsd in the sixties. Giving the Beatles(and tons of other musicians) acid. 
In addition to his work as a sound engineer.

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Re: A music observation [Re: foragedfungus] * 1
    #25790595 -

So he is THE most influential figure in THE LAST HALF A CENTURY because he designed a high-quality yet impractical sound system and was a drug dealer? :lol: aight man.


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Re: A music observation [Re: larry.fisherman]
    #25790613 -

XLCaps said:
50 Cent pretty much cut the red tape on the bling era. Soulja Boy invented social media hyping and the SoundCloud era. Eminem brought "wordsmithing" to the mainstream and helped legitimize the genre. Just to name a few. I could also mention Sublime, as they made ska a thing for most people.

NWA, specifically Dre


What a bout skat music? Third base? Whodini? all the 80's funny rap made way for the thug rap bullshit. Sublime sucks to me.:shrug: Ska, lol, it was a 70's and 80's thing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-tone_(music_genre)

The Specials, funboy 3, madness, etc,..


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Re: A music observation [Re: tyrannicalrex]
    #25790629 -

Ska had multiple waves. Sublime was barely even part of the THIRD wave and didn't even popularize it by any means. Sublime was more so influenced by ska than they were purveyors of it. Sublime is one of those bands where you don't know if theyre good or bad, because their songs are all either amazing, or hot garbage. How you can write something like, idk, Garden Grove, Badfish, Same in the End, 40oz to Freedom, but then turn around and make shit like Johnny Butt and Caress me Down, is beyond me. Sublime is one of those bands that I just love and hate at the same time.


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Re: A music observation [Re: tyrannicalrex]
    #25790638 -

tyrannicalrex said:
XLCaps said:
50 Cent pretty much cut the red tape on the bling era. Soulja Boy invented social media hyping and the SoundCloud era. Eminem brought "wordsmithing" to the mainstream and helped legitimize the genre. Just to name a few. I could also mention Sublime, as they made ska a thing for most people.

NWA, specifically Dre


What a bout skat music? Third base? Whodini? all the 80's funny rap made way for the thug rap bullshit. Sublime sucks to me.:shrug: Ska, lol, it was a 70's and 80's thing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-tone_(music_genre)

The Specials, funboy 3, madness, etc,..


:feelsoldman:


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Life. 2008

Ascension Energy | UFOs | 2021

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Re: A music observation [Re: Lophosaurus]
    #25790645 -

Near Dylan said:
:rolleyes:

When a music group specifically and deliberately caters to a certain demographic and almost exclusively appeals to that demographic, that doesn't say good things about the music. Whether it's hippies or teenagers or suburb kids or hood rats. If it's made FOR them, and appeals largely to them only, it's kind of an indicator that it won't stand up to non-subjective scrutiny that well. Grateful Dead is one of those bands. But keep getting defensive :lol:

And don't give me the "nahhhh mannn lots of people love the dead mannnn". It is mostly for hippies and you know it. I don't care what connotation you wanna add to hippies. Whether it's good or bad, they are who the Grateful Dead is for and that is a problem when judging the band and their impact on music.


Have you ever been to a dead show?

Ever time a quality cover band plays here the audience is very diverse, hippies, college brows, parents with their kids, older folks, etc.

Quote:
Their contributions to "recording techniques" were not significant enough to put them anywhere near even their contemporaries, let alone near the greatest who ever lived. Overrated band. Period.


Do you even know what those contributions are? You seem to be talking out of your clearly biased ass, and nd I'm not the biggest fan of theirs these days either. They are definitely overrated (to a degree) but they still made a lot of contributions.

Lophosaurus said:
Yes, I have listened to other bands from that era. Who else can compare? Who else engineered their own equipment, made their own sound system, invented a taping section, made their own ticketing service, and basically invented the rave/wild house party with their acid tests? Who else from that era still has a huge following that tours consistently and sells out stadiums and large venues?

Grateful Dead doesn't cater to one specific group. They make good music for everybody to listen to. That is all a sterotype you built up in your mind Dylan. I meet all kinds of people at dead shows and there is a very wide variety. Everybody from dirtbag wooks to doctors, sports players, engineers, factory workers, and so on.

I could put a stereotype on any band you list and that has nothing to do with how good they are or if they were influential.

If they can make $50 million for 3 shows then they are a good band and they are influential, whether you like them or not. There is no arguing with $50 million.


There were definitely other acid tests, not just in the USA either. There are recordings from early 70's German musicians who got paid in LSD to record at record label parties :lol:

Anyways a lot of bands can compare musically, some of which were clearly inspired by the early dead and some vice versa. The biggest examples would be Quicksilver Messenger Service and Max Creek, but check out this wiki page for a more thorough overview: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco_Sound

Most of the other bands are fairly distinct, but they were all influencing eachother to varying degrees including a lot of international groups. Some sound very similar others sound entirely different, but the dead definitely don't deserve 100% of the credit for the early "jam band" scene.


--------------------
Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free


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