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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > The Psychedelic Experience
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Spiritualism and bullshit scientifically studied * 1
    #25503183 -

Psychedelics can induce the illusion of understanding. Sometimes they can make you have an actual legitimate new idea or see things in a different way, which can be verybuseful. But many other times they just give you an illusion of having understood something, but you cant really tell what it is. Many people become interested in (or fall into the trap of, I'd say) spiritual/mystical "philosophy". Which is basically a series of statements that seem deep but are totally ambiguous and unclear, so everyone can leave with the illusion of having understood something, even if they are not really sure what it is. I call bullshit.

Regarding this I bumped the other day into the below article, which studies such bullshit from a scientific point of view. The article is hilarious but also serious. I recommend its reading. It is very interesting to see the correlations of multiple personality traits with the acceptance of such bullshit. Basically, less IQ, more spirituality and more religiousness correlate heavily with being a bullshit eater

On the reception and detection of pseudo-profound bullshit.

http://journal.sjdm.org/15/15923a/jdm15923a.pdf

Enjoy!


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Materialistic, individualistic, truth seeker, risk taker.

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Re: Spiritualism and bullshit scientifically studied [Re: Inflaton]
    #25503188 -

Btw the authors were the recipients of a prestigious Ignobel award for this work, well done! :lol:


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Materialistic, individualistic, truth seeker, risk taker.

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Re: Spiritualism and bullshit scientifically studied [Re: Inflaton]
    #25503209 -

I took Aya/oral DMT daily/near daily for 4 years and then occasionally for another year, never hallucinated, never got delusional, never experienced any illusions, quite the contrary, the veils were lifted and for the first time in my life, where once i was blind, now i can see.

I'm Autistic though, may respond a bit differently to Entheogens compared to others, but based on what i've experienced, there's way more going on with the Entheogens and with ourselves than most people know lol. Believe what you want though.



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Edited by Sabnock (10/01/18 11:58 AM)

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Re: Spiritualism and bullshit scientifically studied [Re: Sabnock] * 1
    #25503219 -

I dont mean that psychedelics dont help people. I believe they they do in many ways. Just saying they might in some cases also increase your bullshit receptivity (as described and measured in the article, would be awesome if they repeated the experiment with tripping people :lol:), so it is good to be aware of that fact.


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Materialistic, individualistic, truth seeker, risk taker.

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Re: Spiritualism and bullshit scientifically studied [Re: Inflaton] * 1
    #25503227 -

Inflaton said:
I dont mean that psychedelics dont help people. I believe they they do in many ways. Just saying they might in some cases also increase your bullshit receptivity (as described and measured in the article, would be awesome if they repeated the experiment with tripping people :lol:), so it is good to be aware of that fact.


Also i should note, i didn't come to my conclusions easily/foolishly, i'm skeptical, i'm scientifically minded, but i'm open and receptive and discerning to whatever comes my way during these experiences. So ime there's definitely something to all this stuff that isn't bullshit, but the proof is in the experience and journey, if you fail to recognize what is inside of you, that's on you. Also what's really cool is when you learn/understand something you had absolutely no prior knowledge of, only to have it confirmed afterwards when looking into it, or having a word you don't know pop up during an experience only to look it up and have it be the exact word to describe what you were thinking about or feeling/sensing.

I've also had precognition twice in my life, once in a dream, the other on Pharmahuasca, both visions were indeed visions of the future, and came true exactly as was seen in the visions. So yeah, ESP, spirituality, mysticism, magic, etc, imo/ime it's real, but there's a bullshit counterpart to it as well by fakes and phonies, but there is no doubt some real deal shit going on with Entheogens.


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Re: Spiritualism and bullshit scientifically studied [Re: Sabnock] * 3
    #25503250 -

So you were revealed the future while tripping...



That's exactly what I'm talking about. Delusion. And I dont care if it is true. Coincidences exist. Dont be deluded.


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Materialistic, individualistic, truth seeker, risk taker.

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Re: Spiritualism and bullshit scientifically studied [Re: Inflaton]
    #25503265 -

I said the same thing about my first vision, just thought it was a coincidence, had a vision in a dream that i was in a hospital and woke up sweaty and startled, 2 months later i almost died from Salmonella Sepsis, just thought it was a coincidence.

Then in January of 2014 i was on Pharmahuasca one night, had a vision about my dad's death, 2 weeks later he died from MRSA Sepsis (or Pulmonary Embolism, was kinda hard to tell). And i had seen the vision of his death full on, even down to how the room looked (which looked exactly like the room in real life), as clear as day, highly understandable, still thought my dad had at least another decade or so in him, he wasn't sick at all prior to getting sick before his death. Coincidence, hell no lol. Not a delusion in the least, you simply don't know lol.


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Edited by Sabnock (10/01/18 12:26 PM)

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Re: Spiritualism and bullshit scientifically studied [Re: Sabnock]
    #25503270 -

I know what i experienced was precognition, i don't have to convince anybody of anything lol.

Plus with the visions, there's a hardcore sense of knowing, of knowing it's a legit vision. It's hard to describe, but when you have a legit vision of the future, it's not imagination, there's no guessing if it's a legit vision, you KNOW it's a legit vision, there is quite the difference.


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Re: Spiritualism and bullshit scientifically studied [Re: Sabnock] * 1
    #25503281 -

Sabnock said:
having a word you don't know pop up during an experience only to look it up and have it be the exact word to describe what you were thinking about or feeling/sensing..



That exact thing happened to me during one of my recent trips!!
The word was "moiety".

I don't really agree or disagree with OP here, I just don't really take any interest.
If anything, I'd be more inclined to wish that these elusive realizations have some basis in reality, rather than just total bullshit.


If OP is right, then I really have no reason to be here, because the only reason I endure regular psychedelic crap is in the hope that I will meet god or something.


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"Well I've been where you're hanging, I think I can see how you're pinned" - Leonard Cohen

"We are led to Believe a Lie
When we see not Thro the Eye
Which was Born in a Night to perish in a Night
When the Soul Slept in Beams of Light" - William Blake

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Re: Spiritualism and bullshit scientifically studied [Re: Sabnock] * 2
    #25503291 -

Also, it doesn't take much research to see that many people report similar things with Entheogens, ESP-related stuff, spiritual/mystical/religious stuff, ime there's truth to it, no doubt about it. I would not feel so strongly about Entheogens if i had been given experiences/evidence that made me think it's bullshit, i don't have much tolerance for bullshit, but this stuff is the real deal, probably the one thing of it's kind around on this planet that does what it does.

Some people may get deluded, i'm not discounting that possibility (which people can even become deluded sober so it's not like drugs inherently make you deluded), some may even go into "flights of fancy" or their imagination, but for me, never hallucinated, never felt altered, felt more sober on Aya than in my day to day life, i have clarity not confusion, it's merely a higher state of consciousness/awareness, at least for me, DMT feels more like a neuromodulator/neurotransmitter than a drug. Now mushrooms or LSD on the other hand may be a bit different, since DMT is endogenous to the body, but i think they are just as capable of what DMT is capable of, but i'm not sure as i don't have too much experience with other Entheogens yet as i do with oral DMT. But yeah, never have i taken oral DMT and felt deluded, in any way, it feels more real than real and if this is all delusion, then hell it makes for a far more interesting/intriguing reality than this bullshit reality we live in day to day.


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Re: Spiritualism and bullshit scientifically studied [Re: Sabnock] * 2
    #25503292 -

The Intellectual

The intellectual is always showing off;
the lover is always getting lost.

The intellectual runs away, afraid of drowning;
the whole business of love is to drown in the sea.

Intellectuals plan their repose;
lovers are ashamed to rest.

The lover is always alone,
even surrounded with people;

like water and oil, he remains apart.

The man who goes to the trouble
of giving advice to a lover
get’s nothing. He’s mocked by passion.

Love is like musk. It attracts attention.

Love is a tree, and lovers are its shade.

-Rumi

“Wisdom tells me I am nothing. Love tells me I am everything. And between the two my life flows.”
― Nisargadatta Maharaj


--------------------



truffles therapy -- safe psilocybin therapy retreats in amsterdam
tripsitters -- your guide to safe healing magic truffles journeys
conscious bachelorette -- spiritual sisterhood experiences in amsterdam
amsterdam conscious community
psychedelic therapy fb group

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Re: Spiritualism and bullshit scientifically studied [Re: Legalizeshrooms]
    #25503308 -

Basically, it's up to each person to follow their own path/journey, and to go within themselves, and to practice and experiment around with the Entheogens in depth. I'm not saying everyone will have visions of the future or what not, but within each person is a realm/dimension/reality that most people do not know exists, and there's a lot to learn/understand.

I didn't know anything about anything, all i've learned has come from direct experience, only to be confirmed afterwords when looking more into things. I didn't care about spirituality, thought it was bullshit like religion, but i saw the Light and now i can not deny what i've experienced and have come to understand. I'm always willing to accept that it is all a delusion, so i'm not completely against anything, i go where the evidence, preferably from direct experience, takes me, and after experiencing what i have, it's the real deal imo, but you've gotta be experimental and scientific about it, not gullible or too open minded.


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Re: Spiritualism and bullshit scientifically studied [Re: Sabnock] * 1
    #25503329 -

Skeptics should do a lot less talking and trying to convince others Entheogens are bullshit, and do their own in depth experimentation. If you use these tools seriously, maturely, wisely, and scientifically (imo), you will come to some obvious conclusions that verifies the validity of these tools and what they're/we're capable of.

"Doesn't matter what beliefs you have - being attached to a view holds you back from real learning.... Best way to go deep with medicine is to be open minded. Doesn't mean your beliefs will change at all, but just means you are open to learning more about reality - if you start off attached to a belief then it is easy to ignore what is in front of your eyes because you don't want to see it."

"Belief is a toxic and dangerous attitude toward reality, I think. After all, if it's there it doesn't require your belief, and if it's not there why should you believe in it? If you're a true believer, if you have some pre-packaged philosophy, then you're going to miss a great deal because you're pre-programmed to ignore what doesn't fit into your model and it doesn't matter what your model is. Much of the problem of the modern dilemma is that direct experience has been discounted and in its place all kinds of belief systems have been erected."


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Re: Spiritualism and bullshit scientifically studied [Re: Sabnock] * 1
    #25503346 -

Right. So your claim is that psychedelics allow you to see the future.

If there was some truth to it sounds like something that can be easily proven to me.

Give psychedelics to 1000 people and ask them to predict something about the future. Ask the same to another 1000 that didnt take them. And see which group gets more rights or wrongs.

Result: failure.

I dont even need to do the experiment to know what is gonna be the answer.

If that was true and you could prove it, go ahead. If you are sucessful I guarantee you that every single person in this planet will get to know your name.


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Materialistic, individualistic, truth seeker, risk taker.

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Re: Spiritualism and bullshit scientifically studied [Re: Inflaton] * 2
    #25503369 -

How come not one single person in history has been able to prove the existence of "supernatural phenomena"? It should be so easy if it was real, no? We have been hearing that crap for thousands of years.

A wait, because when something can be proven it is called "physics" and you get a Nobel prize, and people start building machines based on your ideas, and its not called "supernatural bullshit" anymore.

Every time I hear "this can be known and felt but cant be proven" just makes my head explode...


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Materialistic, individualistic, truth seeker, risk taker.

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Re: Spiritualism and bullshit scientifically studied [Re: Legalizeshrooms]
    #25503388 -

Legalizeshrooms said:
The Intellectual

The intellectual is always showing off;
the lover is always getting lost.

The intellectual runs away, afraid of drowning;
the whole business of love is to drown in the sea.

Intellectuals plan their repose;
lovers are ashamed to rest.

The lover is always alone,
even surrounded with people;

like water and oil, he remains apart.

The man who goes to the trouble
of giving advice to a lover
get’s nothing. He’s mocked by passion.

Love is like musk. It attracts attention.

Love is a tree, and lovers are its shade.

-Rumi

“Wisdom tells me I am nothing. Love tells me I am everything. And between the two my life flows.”
― Nisargadatta Maharaj


Great example of pseudo-profound bullshit :thumbup:

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Re: Spiritualism and bullshit scientifically studied [Re: Inflaton] * 1
    #25503411 -

Inflaton said:
Right. So your claim is that psychedelics allow you to see the future.

If there was some truth to it sounds like something that can be easily proven to me.

Give psychedelics to 1000 people and ask them to predict something about the future. Ask the same to another 1000 that didnt take them. And see which group gets more rights or wrongs.

Result: failure.

I dont even need to do the experiment to know what is gonna be the answer.

If that was true and you could prove it, go ahead. If you are sucessful I guarantee you that every single person in this planet will get to know your name.


Once again, i don't have to prove anything to anyone, they have to prove it to themselves, like it was proven to me, i don't believe, i know.

Also, precognition strikes me, so far, as the kind of thing that's more random and spontaneous, but could perhaps/possibly be accessed more consistently with the right training and tools/methods. Also i didn't "predict" the future, i saw a couple futuristic events and they came true, i didn't even pay any attention to the visions after i had them, i just went on with life as usual, they came and went and i didn't think about them again until the events happened. There was no predicting anything lol, i saw a vision, i felt the vision, it seemed like a kind of warning or something important that i needed to see/know, and the vision on Pharmahuasca about my dad even had real time emotion and it felt as if he had literally just died, which lucky for me, i was able to go through the grieving process before he actually died so that when he did, yeah i was upset at first but then i kinda started laughing to myself because really, how fucking cool is it to be able to see the future?

It's not as simple as giving someone a Psychedelic and telling them to predict the future, sure you may get some hits, and some misses, same as with anything else imo, but when a legit precognitive vision happens, it's not chance, it's not a guess or prediction, it's a knowing.

Just because you haven't yet experienced it, doesn't mean it's not true/real, if you really wanna experience precognition, try to make it manifest during an experience and maybe you'll be "lucky" enough to have it happen, but as i said, so far in my experience, it's been random and spontaneous, although the vision of my dad i was thinking about how i'd like for him to experience Aya before he dies, though as i said i thought he still had at least another decade left in him, and then next thing i know i have my eyes closed and i see a full on crystal clear vision of my dad laying dead on a hospital bed, at first i was in front of the bed, then i was hovering above him/the bed, and Aya or Spirit or my intuition or higher self or whatever you wanna call it, told me this was a vision of his death, not a representation of it, but the actual event is what i saw. I'm just pissed at myself for not putting the pieces together sooner and getting him to the hospital sooner, because in a way i feel like i may have contributed to his death but maybe it would've happened that way regardless, idk.

But i'm telling you, believe me or not, idc, but what i've experienced and how things have unfolded for me and what all i've come to understand, i know this stuff is real, i'm not saying all of what this stuff does is real, but it seems pretty damn legit/authentic to me, like scary legit (lucky for me though, i like scary/freaky). So feel free to believe whatever you wanna believe mate, just know, there's plenty of things we don't know, but could know, if we were serious enough about it.


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Re: Spiritualism and bullshit scientifically studied [Re: Inflaton]
    #25503414 -

Inflaton said:
I dont mean that psychedelics dont help people. I believe they they do in many ways. Just saying they might in some cases also increase your bullshit receptivity (as described and measured in the article, would be awesome if they repeated the experiment with tripping people :lol:), so it is good to be aware of that fact.



Of course they do, this is a very common (nay obligatory :laugh2:) side effect.  It passes, unless it doesn't.  :shrug:


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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat you
Primal's simple tested teks and projects: :awesomenod: Wheat Prep 2.0  Acidic Tea Tek  Potency Project! 

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Re: Spiritualism and bullshit scientifically studied [Re: Inflaton] * 1
    #25503430 -

if you think the truth depends on human's ability to prove it, you are so far off the mark as to be laughable.

humans don't know anything. we've been here about 200k years. fungi have been here for, the scientists say, 1.2 billion years. that's 6000x longer than humans have been on this planet. their intelligence is far beyond human intelligence. and this is all happening on a small planet orbiting an average-sized star in one of an estimated 100 billion galaxies. who knows how many universes exist simultaneously?

look at what humans have done to this planet, our one and only home. we might be the dumbest species to ever live on this planet when it all comes down to it. we'll probably end up as a footnote (probably not even worth mentioning) in the universal annals. something like:

a species with a wide range of intelligence, there were some intelligent individuals, but the pack was dumb as rocks, and didn't listen to their own bodies or minds and didn't follow their best leaders. many of them drank alcohol and smoked cigarettes and watched pixels on a screen. they were easily manipulated and the worst of their kind actually gained the most power, and they lived in fear of stepping up to be leaders and helping others because they thought that pixels on the screen representing symbols, called numbers, to which they gave immense value, would change to other pixels to which they gave less value.

i wonder how deeply you've delved into the mushroom and psychedelics. these tools have been used for millennia by indigenous shamans to help people access sacred worlds. if direct experience and anecdotal evidence from thousands of years has to be "proven" for it to be valid, there's something wrong with the way we define truth and science.

im still and always will be a beginner in all things spiritual, psychedelic, etc. every time i journey the ego gets torn into smitherines. everything i thought i knew dissolves into empty space, and i realize the boundaries that seemed to separate me and others were actually just a thought, an idea, a figment of my imagination, and that these boundaries kept me small and in fear. that when these boundaries dissolve, i feel happy and light and generous and loving.

i don't know how to prove all this, but it seems real to me.


--------------------



truffles therapy -- safe psilocybin therapy retreats in amsterdam
tripsitters -- your guide to safe healing magic truffles journeys
conscious bachelorette -- spiritual sisterhood experiences in amsterdam
amsterdam conscious community
psychedelic therapy fb group

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Re: Spiritualism and bullshit scientifically studied [Re: Sabnock] * 1
    #25503433 -

Sabnock said:
I know what i experienced was precognition, i don't have to convince anybody of anything lol.

Plus with the visions, there's a hardcore sense of knowing, of knowing it's a legit vision. It's hard to describe, but when you have a legit vision of the future, it's not imagination, there's no guessing if it's a legit vision, you KNOW it's a legit vision, there is quite the difference.


Exactly.  It's like you're looking through a window in time itself.  :awesomenod:


--------------------

if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat you
Primal's simple tested teks and projects: :awesomenod: Wheat Prep 2.0  Acidic Tea Tek  Potency Project! 

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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > The Psychedelic Experience
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