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Anyone with knowledge of hypnotherapy?
    #25496491 -

Bear with me here please, my K key doesn't work very well so might be typos.

Basically I was bullied badly and sexually abused growing up. From 18 onwards life was a depressive blur. In 2014 age 28 I decided to do something about it, and went to a "master hypnotherapist" in London. He lived 300 miles away but promised he would change my life in 4 hours. And he did. For the better. Including spiritual awakening. But unfortunatly the main issue I was hypnotised for (depression and binge eating) wore off after 3 months (some of this, my fault, I didn't do the automatic writing etc) and then I had panic attacks every night and constant anxiety with phantom body pains mimicking strokes and heart attacks for the next 2 years. Kept going back for "top ups". All this very expensive. Spent £1500 / $2250 on him alone + travel and acommodation. The topups did nothing at all. There seems to be some idolization in the hypnotherapy too because I am really loathe to say who it is and question his abilities. I was conscious the whole time, but did zone out a few times. I remember he had this test where I was to put my arm up and it would touch my head and after an hour of it not happening I did it consciously just to not make it look like I was playing around; he could not put me to sleep.


Back when I started seeing him in 2014 I started learning how to meditate and quiet the mind SPECIFICALLY to make him able to put me to sleep. Cos my "monkey mind" would literally go "haha this clown can't hypnotise you" and wouldn't shut up. Those 4 years of meditation have done wonders. However I still have the anxiety except it is in the body only. I am sitting here with a pretty blank relaxed mind however the body is shaking like all my cells are vibrating, heart palps, etc. I smell this wierd smell ALL THE TIME my skin literally smells of it, like vanilla crossed with bourbon. Smells a lot like those french bon madelienes you can buy in grocery stores.

I recently did a cycle of ashwagandha which fixed my anxiety but I don't like to stay on it, so now I am "off it" the anxiety is back and I realise all these years later I still have it. I won't do pharma drugs. They gave me anti-depressants for it - they went in the bin. I refuse to!

Now mushrooms may or may not work for me - this is gonna happen when I find libs. Ima try microdosing and I am gonna try a full on darkness trip, 3.5g of libs - for the "Terrence mcKenna experience". I am not scared of the trip and confident it will teach me and maybe cure me of this continuous anxiety.

Anyway my question and the specific point of this thread is basically, the hypnotherapist cured my depression by giving me, or pointing me towards, a spiritual awakening. Can't be depressed after that 'cos I realise the reality where I was depressed, is not as real as I thought it was. I'm immortal, the real "I". The I that is everything. And I have experienced this sober, during meditation and not. Not just read about it.

But he gave me anxiety and panic attacks. And I am wondering if this is normal? I have autism / asperges. I haven't said anything to him. Doubt he would care now. Lost contact ages ago. He has a great testimonial from me on his website and is unaware of these issues.

I have also read books by clinical psychologists/hypnotherapists who state it is impossible to change someone in one sitting. Yet this hypnotherapy / NLP master claims he can do it in one go.

I have tried asking all this on hypnotherapy specific places but...he might be on there, and I am pretty scared tbh, he might get angry, say something to me that triggers something, if he is not benelovent as he claims - (I read about mkultra since) - he uses a fake name that sounds posh, for example -  but on these places when I start talking about oneness experiences they start going on about bipolar/schizophrenia - definetly not got that!!!

But I am worried too. I have come so far spiritually. People who have "read me" in various groups say I am very advanced. I don't want to fuck this up by having "a real hypnotherapist" overrwrite my hypnotherapy.

Tldr: can hypnotherapy cause anxiety? Can another one or a clinical hypnotherapist "overwrite" his hypnotherapy? If I do this will it overwrite my spiritual awakening / spiritual beliefs / spiritual progress?

Thank you and sorry for the long thread.

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Re: Anyone with knowledge of hypnotherapy? [Re: deep_thinker]
    #25496760 -

yes it works and it can have unintended side effects as well

the power of suggestion is that it becomes your own idea.

how nicely it cohabits your other ideas can bring out other issues.  there is no quick easy fix for anything. it's work. and more work.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Anyone with knowledge of hypnotherapy? *DELETED* [Re: deep_thinker]
    #25497055 -

Post deleted by Lion

Reason for deletion: .


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”

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Re: Anyone with knowledge of hypnotherapy? [Re: Lion]
    #25497516 -

In undergrad we were taught that hypnotherapy was essentially the power of suggestion.

The results will vary based on the person's willingness to sway into suggestion.


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TRUMP 2020

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Re: Anyone with knowledge of hypnotherapy? [Re: deep_thinker]
    #25499719 -

I am a Fellow in Clinical Hypnotherapy in my professional organization and have practiced with increasing efficacy since 1989. Nobody leaves my office feeling worse than when they arrived and no, anxiety is not caused by hypnotherapy. We all have an ocean of Death Anxiety but when we have specific triggers of anxiety that are related to traumas, those become portals, or sluice-gates to that ocean of Death Anxiety (the mother of all anxiety) and so what happens is the trauma-associated trigger receives an inordinate amount of anxiety from that existential source. Language regarding hypnotherapy is always metaphoric or simile. What may have happened is that you became more aware of the anxiety that runs like malware in the unconscious, but the Initial Sensitizing Event (ISE) was not identified, nor were the requisite therapeutic steps applied. If your hypnotherapist did not use Age Regression for an intractable problem but only suggestions, affirmations, etc., then the core problem was not extracted like an abscessed tooth to use a dental surgical simile. I liken my work to a tooth extraction,  debriding, disinfecting, and only then can the wound heal once and for all. Like surgery, I know that it is questionably ethical to work with someone I know outside of the therapeutic relationship, moreover, it is usually way less effective as well. :frown:

My treatment usually takes 2-3 sessions for the conditions that I have had good results with. I recently rid a 16 year old boy of a stutter in 2 or 3 sessions that he had since age 6. This is the sort of thing that obviously cannot be faked and is objectively perceived by others quite readily. He phoned me on 3 occasions afterwards, once after returning to school after Xmas break, and he was not stuttering. He was not my first, second, or third subject who lost a stutter, but in the past it took me a good deal longer. Techniques have improved, just to give one poignant example.

The goal is to drain the traumas of their negative emotions from a trauma leaving a hollow and harmless shell of a memory (not amnesia for the event[s]). Incidentally, the word 'sleep' in hypnosis does not mean Delta wave sleep, it is figurative. Hypnotic trance is characterized by Theta wave states, reverie states that usually herald Delta wave sleep, but a subject isn't in my chair to snore so the thing is to isolate Theta waves and keep the subject there. The hypnotic 'patter' keeps the individual from drifting off even if they do depart from the instructions periodically to go into their own reveries. That happens in passive hypnosis, but in hypnotherapy which is interactive, there is no opportunity to drift off unless one really does not want to be there because [s]he is not ready for therapy. I have had two people go to sleep on me since 1989 and both of them told me beforehand they were going to go to sleep! Neither really wanted to be there. Once in a great while I'll hear a snore, but I'll lean in and speak more loudly to bring the person back to Theta.

If you have more personal concerns, you can PM me.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

Edited by MarkostheGnostic (09/30/18 01:56 AM)

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Re: Anyone with knowledge of hypnotherapy? [Re: XUL]
    #25499727 -

XUL said:
In undergrad we were taught that hypnotherapy was essentially the power of suggestion.

The results will vary based on the person's willingness to sway into suggestion.



Suggestion is one level. I routinely use Age Regression and the vast majority of my clients never had any idea that they would go to the particular moments in life that are Revivified in the process, out of the countless moments of their lives. Hypnosis IS however a state of consent, and at some point in the induction, when the unconscious and conscious make a figure-ground shift, the act of consent, of 'playing along' morphs into very real experience for the subject. My induction is based on the Dave Elman induction, and on his work, but has been elaborated by my first teacher Gerald Kein and his accomplished student Cal Banyan.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

Edited by MarkostheGnostic (10/01/18 02:03 AM)

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Re: Anyone with knowledge of hypnotherapy? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #25501638 -

I think I didn't really understand how strong of a controlling role my ego played over my life before the hypnosis session. I was either completely ignorant to my ego or I thought I was "woke", probably the former. But either way I wanted to be there consciously or subconsciously but the "opposite" did not, it was almost like I was an observer to my own ego in the chair, I had no control, and my ego was laughing at the guy, telling me that the ego "has got this, don't worry", yet this ego which, granted, has kept me alive since my trauma, had done so in a bad way, overreating, shut me off from society to be safe, etc.

When I say voices it's not like a schizophrenic voice but more like some part of me is thinking it.

Now, 5 years and 10,000 hours+ of meditation later, my mind is pretty silent most of the time. My body has the full on anxiety and sometimes panic attack whereas my mind is blank and relaxed and I am wondering what my body is anxious about. It's really wierd.

I guess I am wondering if this guy is a fraud in which case should I find someone else? I have spent a week or so looking for a private clinical hypnotherapist and tbh, come up blank. They all promise the world like he did, with no reviews. I guess it is still a low key "hippy" thing and has not been accepted by society.

Instead I have been listening to youtube ones which have actually been working as per making my body numb / putting me in a trance!

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Re: Anyone with knowledge of hypnotherapy? [Re: deep_thinker]
    #25502385 -

No, hypnotherapy was accepted as a viable form of treatment by the American Medical Association in 1958. There is nothing "hippy" about it. Trance has been part of healing since time immemorial across all kinds of cultures. It is the skill of the therapist that makes the difference. Hypnosis by itself is a natural range of brain waves. 'Highway hypnosis,' channel-surfing, or even following YouTube videos are common forms of self-hypnotizing behaviors but they are not therapeutic in any sense. Hypnotherapy is doing analysis while a subject is in somnambulism. If the practitioner is not educated, trained, and skilled with the use of the latest techniques, little will come of it. Many so-called hypnotherapists are not licensed therapists and even among those who are, a large number are reluctant to use Age Regression.

Even when memories of traumatic events are unavailable to consciousness, the emotional trauma remains embedded in layers of the unconscious. Like rings on a tree stump that a botanist can explain with each ring representing a year of the tree's life, we have similar layers, though not physically manifested obviously. Anxiety is probably the most common complaint and it is the symptom of myriad traumas long repressed into the unconscious. The events, long-forgotten arise in the process, often seen for the first time since the event. I often take a client back to single-digit ages, 3 being the earliest so far. But those who call me to explore their "alien abductions" and examination with instruments under blinding light are probably getting flashbacks of forceps births, although that is not as sexy as extraterrestrial abductions so I never take them as clients.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: Anyone with knowledge of hypnotherapy? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #25502565 -

I didn't believe in it till someone hypnotised me in a busy pub and almost made me orgasm by tapping my palm. I did use it once with a therapist with a good rep to work out where some shit in my head came from. I got to a wall. She interpreted this a specific way and it fucked me up for nearly twenty years. I'm sorry this doesn't answer your questions but I'm just trying to say the power of the mind is huge and if you're asking "can it", yeah it probably can. Just my opinion.


--------------------
We're all mentally ill. We're all delusional. We're all junkies. It's just a matter of degree
(the Venerable Robina Curtin)

Anything I say here is a fiction, for role play or research only. Full of bollocks I am. I wouldn't believe me.

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Re: Anyone with knowledge of hypnotherapy? [Re: Acuriousmycologist]
    #25502567 -

Oh but I think the spiritual stuff is more than mind stuff, that changes heart and spirit so may be unaffected. Nothing to base that on, just logical. Hypno works on the mind not spirit.


--------------------
We're all mentally ill. We're all delusional. We're all junkies. It's just a matter of degree
(the Venerable Robina Curtin)

Anything I say here is a fiction, for role play or research only. Full of bollocks I am. I wouldn't believe me.

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Re: Anyone with knowledge of hypnotherapy? [Re: Acuriousmycologist]
    #25503196 -

Acuriousmycologist said:
I didn't believe in it till someone hypnotised me in a busy pub and almost made me orgasm by tapping my palm. I did use it once with a therapist with a good rep to work out where some shit in my head came from. I got to a wall. She interpreted this a specific way and it fucked me up for nearly twenty years. I'm sorry this doesn't answer your questions but I'm just trying to say the power of the mind is huge and if you're asking "can it", yeah it probably can. Just my opinion.



You probably want to reply to the appropriate recipient of your post here which was the OP. :wink: I'm already conversant with hypnosis/hypnotherapy.

Done correctly there is no interpretation necessary! The trauma is Revivified, relived in detail AS IF present not past. When this occurs, you the subject are able to connect-the-dots between your original trauma and how the emotions of that event have continued to ill-affect your life in situations which are evocative of that trauma - even if you don't remember the trauma. Those life situations or objects or certain people you meet become triggers if they resemble enough important aspects of your original trauma.

In regards to spiritual aspects, for example, the client who was entirely focused on sex but not love was suddenly losing his erectile capacity which freaked him out. It turned out in therapy that his mother with whom there was inordinate attachment both ways told him NOT to fall in love with another woman. The message went deeply and on the occasions that he began to actually feel love for a sex partner, he'd lose his erection. In hypnosis he had to have that command of his mother's decathected of all emotional attachment, drained of intention until they became empty words so he could allow himself to feel love without becoming sexually dysfunctional. The result was an elimination of his ED condition and restoration of sexual functioning. But now, he had to consider the moral predicament of seeking out unavailable, sometimes married women to merely have sex with and consider having a real love relationship in his life for the first time. I am not conflating spirituality with morality, but morality is a pre-condition for spiritual life. One cannot legitimately talk of spiritual matters without being compassionate, and adultery has no place where there is compassion which extends to the husband who is being cuckolded. Adultery means dishonesty, sneakiness, deception, lying.

The borderline between psyche (soul, mind) and Nous (Higher mind, Spirit) the spiritual domain in some Neoplatonic schools, or between psyche and pneuma in Christianity and other idioms, is not rigid and impermeable. Spiritual insights or transpersonal energies have to enter our mind from a higher realm or else we are unaffected by them. The classic Christian idiom is the 'descent of the Holy Spirit' in Luke's Acts 2:1ff. Spirituality is not the focus of clinical hypnotherapy, but insight is associated with the 3rd eye, Ajna chakra, and the Brain centers are associated with the Heaven realm (vs. the Human realm and Earth realm) in Vajrayana Buddhist psychology. So if one identifies insights with mental illuminations coming from a higher level, one would have to concede that the spiritual domain is not automatically excluded from hypnotherapy (or anything else for that matter).


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: Anyone with knowledge of hypnotherapy? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #25529733 -

This makes a lot of sense, in that it seems like the guy I visited basically put some programming layer on top of all my trauma programming. And then over 3 months that programming layer got thinner and thinner and then it was gone and I was left with permanent anxiety. He claims this is impossible and I must be interpreting my thoughts wrong. He even said he can cure bipolar in just a single 4 hour session (I don't have BPD).

So I need to find a hypnotherapist skilled in regression therapy?

Lots of them claim this but when you read their other "skills" they tend to list every skill in the world as their expertise including reiki and "quantum massage" etc which makes me believe they are full of it. Living in the UK there aren't even that many outside of London and I don't really wish to have a 300 mile commute again :/

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Re: Anyone with knowledge of hypnotherapy? [Re: deep_thinker]
    #25531071 -

Freudian's catch a bad rep...his research was more essential than NLP, and the like; as far as i can see. listen to Markos, he knows his shit about this stuff- just wanted to throw in my 2cents, nevermind me, OP.

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Re: Anyone with knowledge of hypnotherapy? [Re: deep_thinker]
    #25533615 -

Yes, you need to consider someone who (1) is licensed in a recognized mental health discipline (and therefore abides by professional ethics), and (2) someone who specializes in clinical hypnotherapy (not a Jack-of-all-trades, many of which are spurious New Age notions and yeah, they're full of it), and (3) someone who regularly uses Age Regression, preferably the 5-Path® method developed in the USA by Gerald Kein (my own first teacher) and Cal Banyan. I have done hypnotherapy since '89 but it wasn't until Gerry and Cal systematized the 5-Path® method that I was seeing permanent results in 2 sessions, not a dozen or more! There may well be other schools, but this one I know for its efficacy. For example, in December 2017 I eliminated a stutter from a 16 year old boy in a couple of sessions who had been stuttering since age 6! I felt good about that, but imagine how the boy felt! It wasn't the first time I've eliminated a stutter, but the number of sessions have been reduced to a minimum as the techniques have improved. Many other symptoms have been eliminated, but all have been caused by traumas in the past. I have even discovered that acid flashbacks are a specialized form of PTSD. Skill in Age Regression is necessary regardless of the school of hypnotherapy.

4 hours is way, Way, WAY too long for a hypnotherapy session even if trance depth could be maintained for that amount of time and it cannot be. One would have to emerge the subject and re-hypnotize. The process is called Fractionation. Secondly, it is irresponsible to claim let alone guarantee that a major mental illness such as Bipolar Disorder can be cured! That is unethical because it is not true! I now have someone who is demonstrating a bizarre type of walking. She believes herself to have Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, but the symptoms suddenly appeared in 2011. Her behaviors are ritualistic, but I think they result from a recent injury which somehow opened up something further back in her life. I will do my best to discover and uproot the presumed trauma with the intention of restoring normal walking (which she can do in physical therapy but which ceases when she leaves). The point is, although I may (hopefully) eliminate whatever is causing this bizarre gait, I would never say that I've cured OCD.

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