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OfflineAdamist
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Registered: 11/24/01
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Re: Do you feel your knowledge is a burden or a gift? [Re: ]
    #868265 - 09/07/02 06:33 AM (19 years, 25 days ago)

Damn Mr Mushrooms, you're harsh today....

Who are you to judge Markos? True I don't comprehend alot of what he speaks of, but you know what that presents me with? A challenge to be able to comprehend it. If someone as seemingly as intelligent as him takes the time to write all this maybe it has a purpose, maybe not. But I'm very glad that there are people still out there pouring the cup of knowledge to those who are hot and thirsty...

Markos is one of the only people who really helped me with my first trip experience, which left me with so many questions, I didn't know where to begin, so I just typed up as much as I could about it and he responded with all sorts of stuff that was so helpful I wrote it down and still have it to this day, and am still gaining knowledge from what it gave me.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Do you feel your knowledge is a burden or a gift? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #868311 - 09/07/02 07:17 AM (19 years, 25 days ago)

You are the confused individual. Mixing insulting rhetoric with feelings of inadequacy, while yet being an intelligent and articulate individual, more than illustrates this. I have met people at this forum who have then visited my Lady and me at our home. One lives far, but is a jet pilot; another is local. We are all becoming friends along deeper lines than has been available in my many years in South Florida. Friends appreciate one another for who they are. Both individuals who have come to my home are younger than me, but kindred souls in the sense that I am looking for.

I am here because it is fun. I have taught graduate school (human development and personality theory), and believe it or not, I do receive PM's thanking me for therapeutic or pastoral counseling. I am not a show-off so you are clearly wrong about preening behaviors. In fact, you are wrong twice about typing - I don't know how to type. I am hunt-and-pecking right now. I happen to be 'one of the guys,' inasmuch as working with my hands: building furniture, landscaping, doing my lawn (I just now cleaned the pool). My appearance might seem unmatched to my writing style, as I appear much younger than I am chronologically, and sometimes my ID is checked for clubs or alcohol-purchase.

You missed the possibility that I am attempting to recruit young impressionable acid-drenched minds for my esoteric occult gnostic church! You also failed to note that as a crisis counselor accustomed to working with adolescents; and an addictions counselor with lots of experience; my Hermes-Mercury Psychopompic tendencies looks for additional outlets for expression with more specific populations, i.e., entheogen enthusiasts. You seem to undrstand my loquacity, even if the younger less well-read members do not. In fact, it is a person who writes as you do who I find of sufficient interest to invite over for a visit. Much misunderstanding can be eliminated by personally coming to Know one another. Gnosis.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineAdamist
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Re: Do you feel your knowledge is a burden or a gift? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #868321 - 09/07/02 07:24 AM (19 years, 25 days ago)

You missed the possibility that I am attempting to recruit young impressionable acid-drenched minds for my esoteric occult gnostic church!

I want to join an esoteric occult gnostic church...  :grin:


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Edited by Adamist (09/07/02 07:25 AM)


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Do you feel your knowledge is a burden or a gift? [Re: Sclorch]
    #868322 - 09/07/02 07:24 AM (19 years, 25 days ago)

Well, thanks for the backhanded compliment. I rather admire Campbell, and I do have a bookcase filled with esoterica, but I'm not stoned in the cannabis sense. I only use a little Passionflower on occasion. As for polished rhetoric, I'm happy if my choice of words appear to shine with clarity. Surely the Perrenial Philosophy was never stated any more clearly than by Huxley himself.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Do you feel your knowledge is a burden or a gift? [Re: Adamist]
    #868336 - 09/07/02 07:33 AM (19 years, 25 days ago)

Thank you Adamist. My purpose, here at least, is to bcome the kind of [if I may be so bold to say] mentor, that I myself sought in my earlier days of seeking, but did not find. My motive is altruism, and your words are more than sufficient to validate my continuation at this forum.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Anonymous

Re: Do you feel your knowledge is a burden or a gift? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #868447 - 09/07/02 08:42 AM (19 years, 25 days ago)

Well that was valuable.  Thank you.  Allow me to clear up some of the confusion.

You are the confused individual.

Yes, I thought I was clear about that.  Your presence here confuses me.

Mixing insulting rhetoric with feelings of inadequacy, while yet being an intelligent and articulate individual, more than illustrates this.

I am sorry that you took my verbiage as insulting.  That was not the intent.  I was voicing my opinion of you in strong language but as I said, "I mean you no harm nor would I deliberately try to hurt your feelings. It's not about that.  I was sincere when I said that.  I was blunt.  If you felt insulted consider the possibility that an attachment to the ego is what causes us to feel insulted.  I meant no harm then or now.

As far as feeling inadequate goes I harbor no such feelings and yet you are more educated than I on a certified level.  I am merely an autodidact, for the most part.  Now that could give rise to feelings of superiority, but it doesn't.  I am aware of my gifts and talents and readily acknowledge persons of higher intellect or superior talents.  I am egoless in this way.  You are more articulate than I but that is of no concern to me.  Each of us is as we are.

I have met people at this forum who have then visited my Lady and me at our home. One lives far, but is a jet pilot; another is local. We are all becoming friends along deeper lines than has been available in my many years in South Florida. Friends appreciate one another for who they are. Both individuals who have come to my home are younger than me, but kindred souls in the sense that I am looking for.

Yes, I guess that part concerns me.  I have encountered others with that same attribute and at no time was it healthy, either for them or the ones that sought them out.  To me it seems like a person who likes to teach their inferiors, call them friends if  you will, or pass on whatever makes them at peace can be very bad.  That sort of thing can be seen as proselytizing even when the intentions are good ones.  Take note that I have my own belief system but I am neither Zahid, enter, or you.  I have no need to share what I know without it being asked for.  I make few references to the deeper truths I have learned.  I am at peace and have no 'need' or desire to teach anyone.  After all, if I am honest about it, I am in a state of learning and may not have the complete truth (deliberately facetious).  Merely by expressing your 'platitudes' you draw people to you, do you not?  Do you not know this?  Be careful of the urge to heal what you may not understand.

I am here because it is fun.

What is fun about it?  You like to play in the spiritual sandbox?  I am here because I like to see what people have to say about the spiritual aspects of their lives plus I harbor a deep desire that one will come someday that will know more about philosophy than I do  and a sincere and learning experience will come to me.  Who knows, I might even teach my teacher something. :smile:


I have taught graduate school (human development and personality theory), and believe it or not, I do receive PM's thanking me for therapeutic or pastoral counseling. I am not a show-off so you are clearly wrong about preening behaviors. In fact, you are wrong twice about typing - I don't know how to type. I am hunt-and-pecking right now. I happen to be 'one of the guys,' inasmuch as working with my hands: building furniture, landscaping, doing my lawn (I just now cleaned the pool). My appearance might seem unmatched to my writing style, as I appear much younger than I am chronologically, and sometimes my ID is checked for clubs or alcohol-purchase.

I am glad to know that you are healthy looking.  Probably the result of a healthy lifestyle.  That is good.  If you type that slowly not only was I wrong about  your typing speed but you spend a lot of time to convey whatever it is you are conveying.  That means it is important to you.  Ever wonder why?

You missed the possibility that I am attempting to recruit young impressionable acid-drenched minds for my esoteric occult gnostic church!

That possibility did not miss me.  Many a truth is told in jest.  I am not saying that you are trying to get a congregation going but I am aware that you might have motives that even you are unaware of.  Johari window?

You also failed to note that as a crisis counselor accustomed to working with adolescents; and an addictions counselor with lots of experience; my Hermes-Mercury Psychopompic tendencies looks for additional outlets for expression with more specific populations, i.e., entheogen enthusiasts.

I noted it.  That is another reason that your presence here confuses me.  Not that you are here, but why exactly are you here?

You seem to undrstand my loquacity, even if the younger less well-read members do not. In fact, it is a person who writes as you do who I find of sufficient interest to invite over for a visit. Much misunderstanding can be eliminated by personally coming to Know one another. Gnosis.

No one would be more delighted than myself to find out that you are a healthy man that does the world a lot of good merely by being here.  But, as I said,  I have known others such as yourself, or at least the way I perceive you through this medium, and none of them were healthy.  In fact, just the opposite.  Maybe my experience with them colors my perception of you?

I wish you no harm unless you are harming others.

Cheers,







 


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Do you feel your knowledge is a burden or a gift? [Re: ]
    #868542 - 09/07/02 09:53 AM (19 years, 25 days ago)

Well, you are fairly honest, if not guarded and overly cautious. However, let me assure you to whatever extent you are capable of having faith in my assurance that my motives here, as in life, are altruistic. I do not know where this projection of yours derives - that I look upon my contacts as "inferiors," or "ugly ducklings," whom I 'befriend' in order to teach or preach to. This is simply not the case.

Moreover, I am in a healthy relationship with a very intelligent, London-born, English-teaching, Cornell graduate who shares much of my values and world-view, and we do not constitute some bizarre 'Addams Family,' or 'Beetlejuice' couple who endangers or exploits other human beings. Your further projection, or projective identification (wherein you project, and then react to your own projection onto me, rather than to the real me who you do not know) is that I (or we) are somehow dangerous or "harmful" to others. Now, you may find something of me (as much as printed words can convey) to be intimidating to your understanding of people (since you've apparently encountered dishonest people who deceive or at least misrepresent themselves); or to your world view which contains your encounter with the aforementioned deceivers, but goes beyond that.

The easier course for me might be to ask those individuals who know me and my Lady personally, to put in a good word for me, but I shall not embarrass them or continue to defend against your assumptions which are unfounded. You ask if my motives are known to me, and I'll respond by saying that there have been very few people who analyze their motives with more honesty and depth than I do, including the three Zurich-trained Jungian analysts that I have worked with over the years. I am not slighted by your assertion that you have looked to this board for a teacher, but do not find that teacher in my words. I do see that assertian as particularly revealing nevertheless. Aside from your confessed boredom (one existential malaise that I never experience), you obviously have considerable memory about my former posts, and I must be an object of curiosity to you. This should not be such a mystery.

South Florida is a socially shallow, intellectually and spiritually undeveloped location. The geography draws hedonists, opportunists and all varieties of money-worshippers from street urchins to high paid call-girls. Miami is now the # 1 highest AIDS population in the USA. The immigrant and hence transient nature of Miamians leaves little interest in what I consider to be spiritual development. What better way to look for other like-minded individuals than the internet? The Shroomery is not the only site I visit, nor is my life all about playing on the computer, but even my hobbies are gonna be an extension of my personality.

For everyone else I know, cleaning a pool is just cleaning a pool. It is a mere chore. I rather liken it to creating a Zen rock garden. It is true that the neatly raked rows of pebbles last longer than the ripples of crystal clear water that emanate from the vacuum, brush and skimmer poles, but the clarity and quality of the water, and by extension, the weed-to-grass quotient, all seem interrelated to my attention and interaction to these domains. The apprent outer harmony is connected to my non-apparent inner harmony. 'I' may not be 'your' Mr. Miyagi, but neither do I advertise as being a Guru (like Adi Da, formerly Bubba Free John), a Master (like one of the Gnostic sites does), or any other inflated and exalted title. I am just a counselor (not "Wonderful Counselor" as in the Holy Spirit) by profession, who lives pretty much as a home-body, attempting to cultivate extreme degrees of tranquil awareness, and still embodying enough desire to want good friends in this life. I feel that I have addressed this issue sufficiently, and spent enough time explaining my simple purpose for being here, primarily to you, but for all to see if they want to. Let us please move on from here.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Do you feel your knowledge is a burden or a gift? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #868645 - 09/07/02 11:00 AM (19 years, 25 days ago)

Markos... you should come drinking with me (unless you've got issues with brew).  From what I've gathered of your persona (perception limited to your posts here), it seems like you could use some balancing... you know, get a little more... uh, visceral.  Yeah.  I know you have your pool to tend and all....  But a dose of deep-south, inbred, mouthful of marbles, cracker-cow-fucking redneck or some experience along those lines would cure ya.  Unless you're ignoring that side of you; which I doubt, because you say you hail from Whitey Island.  So it's probably just absent. 
Miami has good weird, but it's too glamorous (or too vato-gangster) for your needs.  It'll either annoy you or loosen up your bowels.  You don't need that.  Maybe you could hit the reservation... but you can't really mix it up there due to that whole "outsider" syndrome (BTW, there's still some parts where whitey has never set foot).  I'd suggest hanging out around Ocala... maybe take a trip to Waldo (yeah, it's in FL).

Basically, being a little sawed-off is a commonly overlooked virtue. :wink:   


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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OfflineAdamist
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Re: Do you feel your knowledge is a burden or a gift? [Re: Sclorch]
    #868656 - 09/07/02 11:05 AM (19 years, 25 days ago)

Haha, I live near Ocala..... A bunch of mini-clubbin hip gangsta wannabees driving around with boomin bass and "illegal racing" cars... bahaha and dont forget the huge retirement community.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Do you feel your knowledge is a burden or a gift? [Re: Sclorch]
    #868755 - 09/07/02 12:36 PM (19 years, 25 days ago)

Well Sclorch, thanks for the invitation. Recently fueled up in Ocala on the way back from Atlanta (my Lady's daughter is in college in Decater). Actually gotta watch the visceral, I mean the budding spare-tire - more like an English-racer size on me...but I know that's not what you mean by visceral. I'm pretty 'cerebrotonic,' to use Scheldon's terminology, and you're right, I have usually required some brew to get more into the body. Used to go into the woods with buds, drink wine around a fire at night, get drunk, laugh and roll around in the dirt, roll down leaf-strewn hills with a half gallon of Spanada sangria on a warm fall Saturday afternoon up in NJ. I do have some Kirin beer in the fridge. Had a yen for Negra Modelo before that, and was a Sam Adams man for a number of years (I particularly like the seasonal Octoberfest that ought to be showing up soon). But my days of Budweiser, shot-gunning malt liquor and puking all night are long gone and never to return. I've got a liver to think about. Rarely drink more than 2 a night.

Now, if I seem to be a White, suburban, priviledged, upper middle class stick-in-the-mud...I'd have to say that wouldn't be me. I'm a bluejeans guy - Tevas by day, Western boots to go out at night; tank tops and t-shirts; brown leather jeans for dress-up. I wore my best jeans, boots and bomber jacket to my Mom's funeral. She wouldn't have minded. Before my current relationship, I hung out in a biker bar for two years. Go figure, but it WAS visceral. I only talked philosophy with bored non-biker women who were slumming it. The place reverted to a tit bar before they bulldozed it, but while it was still a biker bar, I got to know some strippers who used to come there from another tit bar after it closed. I never went to see them dance until one night, to celebrate the fact that my malignant melanoma hadn't spread, I visited them. Now, I gave thanks and praise to God all afternoon for answering my prayers, and that night went to a 'temple of Aphrodite' to celebrate life in the flesh. So this is how I live out my Monotheistic and Pagan elements - the psychospiritual and the physical.

Hope I fleshed-out a more complete profile of Mark the man for you and for anyone who cares. Multiple personality? Hypocrisy? Nah. Just more mundane aspects of myself. People are complex. I am integrating, integrating opposites, not repressing, excluding, projecting onto others. This is a lot more than I expected to write...but you already know I can be long-winded. Oh well.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Anonymous

Re: Do you feel your knowledge is a burden or a gift? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #868781 - 09/07/02 12:57 PM (19 years, 25 days ago)

Thank you for taking the time to explain your self.  Yes, we should move on now.  Just one last comment from this portion of the peanut gallery.

My projection of you is all I am able to see.  I don't have a third eye.  It is my subjective interpretation of the words that you type that I view.  I imagine that is the case with everyone.  Then again, I may be wrong.

Testimonials from people that you have helped wouldn't prove anything to me.  They could be extremely damaged individuals that wouldn't know if they have been helped or not.  Counselors do not come with the highest pedigree in my book.  You are aware, are you not, that your profession leads the pack when it comes to suicide?  Not exactly a sterling recommendation when it comes to mental health now is it?

As far as Miami goes I know what you mean and why you might find individuals that you connect with elsewhere.  I spent a considerable amount of time in NYC and had much the same problem there.  Notice also that they are at the top for AIDS as well.  And here let me interject that while I feel great compassion for others and give my life in service to others I do not feel any sorrow for those people, or for people as a whole either.  Perhaps AIDS and other self-induced destruction that people inflict on themsleves is just a way of cleaning the gene pool.  That may sound harsh but there are instances where we cannot help, as sad as some find that to be.  I would willingly take an AIDS patient into my home to nurse them as they pass on but that does not mean that I condone whatever they did to cause themselves and the ones that love them such grief.  My mother, a life long smoker, died of lung cancer.  Of course I grieved her death but I did not feel sorry for the way that she died because she acted in a way that produced her own untimely demise.

As a way to reveal myself to you more clearly let me say that I am a great advocate of Reality Therapy Glasser style. :laugh:  That should tell you something!

Ahh to feel Jung again....  Here's a little snippet from Karl Popper on Adler and his breed in which I would include Jung, Freud and a host of others:

"As for Adler, I was much impressed by personal experience.  Once, in 1919, I reported to him a case which to me did not seem particularly Adlerian, but which he found no difficulty in analysing in terms of his theory of inferiority feelings, although he had not even seen the child.  Slightly shocked I asked him how he could be so sure.  'Because of my thousand fold experience', he replied; whereupon I could not help saying: 'And with this new case, I suppose, your experience has become thousand-and-one-fold."

If you haven't read Conjectures and Refutations by Karl Popper from which this was taken I suggest you do.  It is an objective view of the necessity of verifiability for any paradigm.  In other words, without it a person is just talking out of their hat.

Nice to see you have a good thing going.  Let me know when I can attend your service.  But be forewarned, I don't tithe. :wink:

I am very interested in the idea that we can know in some way that is other than the ordinary way we perceive things.  Perhaps at some point we can dialogue about it.  I would love to put you through the wring... ah er, ask you a few questions. :wink:

Nice to know you don't experience the existential malaise that I do from time to time.  Everytime I have had 4 hours sleep within a 24 hour period and am close to exhaustion and no new thoughts come or very many thoughts at all I do experience it.  Which is like once a year.  Maybe I should check myself into a mental hospital or cut off my ear. :smile:  (Shameless teasing)  Obviously you are a highly developed spiritual teacher.  Got any Rolaids?

Again, thanks Mark for the answers.  It was great discoursing with you.

Cheers,

 


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Anonymous

Re: Do you feel your knowledge is a burden or a gift? [Re: Sclorch]
    #868787 - 09/07/02 01:03 PM (19 years, 25 days ago)

:grin:

Good words Sclorch!

Hey, how come you never invited ME to toss a few back with ya, huh?  If I'm ever in the hood you'll get an advance warning.  We at the Church of Da Muthaship is always looking for new convoits or convicts for that matter! :wink:

I loves da white boyz wif da skinny white lips. :wink:

Cheers looking atcha, 


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Anonymous

Re: Do you feel your knowledge is a burden or a gift? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #868794 - 09/07/02 01:09 PM (19 years, 25 days ago)

Nice reply to Sclorch.  I guess we all strive for gnosis. :wink:

Cheers, 


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Do you feel your knowledge is a burden or a gift? [Re: ]
    #868807 - 09/07/02 01:17 PM (19 years, 25 days ago)

Hey, how come you never invited ME to toss a few back with ya, huh?

Well, I hate greeks...

j/k hehehe

Actually, if you ever find yourself in the only non-southern state in the south, send me a line and I'll drop a dime (or five)...


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Do you feel your knowledge is a burden or a gift? [Re: Sclorch]
    #868865 - 09/07/02 02:06 PM (19 years, 25 days ago)

Sure. First you ask me to slap back some suds with you, now it's Markos. You use the same lines on everyone - and here I was buying your schtick and thinking that I was special *sniff*


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Anonymous

Re: Do you feel your knowledge is a burden or a gift? [Re: Swami]
    #868972 - 09/07/02 03:48 PM (19 years, 25 days ago)

Nah Swam, that's just your ego acting up again! :wink:

Nice to see you.  You have been in my thoughts.

Cheers, 


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Do you feel your knowledge is a burden or a gift? [Re: ]
    #870633 - 09/08/02 11:24 PM (19 years, 23 days ago)

Psychiatrists - medical doctors - are the mental health professionals that are on the top of the list of professionals who suicide, not counselors. Their profession is exceeded only by dentists - no one seems to know why. Psychiatrists subscribe to the medical model which is materialistic by nature. Counselors subscribe to an educational model which may include such sub-discipline as pastoral counseling, and hence have spiritual underpinnings. Physicians have patients while counselors have clients. Psychiatrists identify patients by their pathologies, counselors view clients as intrinsically healthy, but with obstacles to healthy functioning. Few psychiatrists recognize the spiritual problem underlying the absence of mental health; more specifically, the meaning of life. This may be the underlying source of the high incidence of suicide.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


Edited by MarkostheGnostic (09/08/02 11:25 PM)


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Anonymous

Re: Do you feel your knowledge is a burden or a gift? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #870678 - 09/08/02 11:55 PM (19 years, 23 days ago)

Thank you.  I was wrong then evidently.  The dentist thing is a myth.

I'll look into the other things and stuff.

:smile:

Cheers,


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