Icelander said:

Yeah that's the most common skeptic explanation.

What about people who repeat things said or done in ER that happen in the middle of the procedure when the brain is fully offline?  Doctors and nurses claim this stuff happens from what I've read.

Also considering how different peoples psychedelic experiences can be why such a similarity in themes. Especially things like a life review?

Why would this even be happening in the brain? They are not like dreams proper.

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Icelander said:

Great point and it was one I wanted brought up. Why do some have no experience when they go under and are supposedly "dead"? The only thing that I can think of is it might be the same reason you remember so few dreams or most remember so few.

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Icelander said:

Great point and it was one I wanted brought up. Why do some have no experience when they go under and are supposedly "dead"? The only thing that I can think of is it might be the same reason you remember so few dreams or most remember so few.

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Quote:

"Your second experience is a first movement of the awakening of the inner being in sleep, Ordinarily when one sleeps a complex phenomenon happens. The waking consciousness is no longer there, for all has been withdrawn within into the inner realms of which we are not aware when we are awake, though they exist; for then all that is put behind a veil by the waking mind and nothing remains except the surface self and the outward world – much as the veil of the sunlight hides from us the vast worlds of the stars that are behind it. Sleep is a going inward in which the surface self and the outside world are put away from our sense and vision. But in ordinary sleep we do not become aware of the worlds within; the being seems submerged in a deep subconscience. On the surface of this subconscience floats an obscure layer in which dreams take place, as it seems to us, but, more correctly it may be said, are recorded. When we go very deeply asleep, we have what appears to us as a dreamless slumber; but in fact dreams are going on, but they are either too deep down to reach the recording surface or are forgotten, all recollection of their having existed even is wiped out in the transition to the waking consciousness. Ordinary dreams are for the most part or seem to be incoherent, because they are either woven by the subconscient out of deep-lying impressions left in it by our past inner and outer life, woven in a fantastic way which does not easily yield any clue of meaning to the waking mind’s remembrance, or are fragmentary records, mostly distorted, of experiences which are going on behind the veil of sleep – very largely indeed these two elements get mixed up together. For in fact a large part of our consciousness in sleep does not get sunk into this subconscious state; it passes beyond the veil into other planes of being which are connected with our own inner planes, planes of supraphysical existence, worlds of a larger life, mind or psyche which are there behind and whose influences come to us without our knowledge. Occasionally we get a dream from these planes, something more than a dream,– a dream experience which is a record direct or symbolic of what happens to us or around us there. As the inner consciousness grows by sadhana, these dream experiences increase in number, clearness, coherence, accuracy and after some growth of experience and consciousness, we can, if we observe, come to understand them and their significance to our inner life. Even we can by training become so conscious as to follow our own passage, usually veiled to our awareness and memory, through many realms and the process of the return to the waking state. At a certain pitch of this inner wakefulness this kind of sleep, a sleep of experiences, can replace the ordinary subconscious slumber."

https://aurobindo.site/workings/letters/0021/020466_e.htm

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Icelander said:

and if someone could explain why people who don't want to be in a meat body that suffers decays and dies have to do it.

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Kickle said:

Icelander said:

Great point and it was one I wanted brought up. Why do some have no experience when they go under and are supposedly "dead"? The only thing that I can think of is it might be the same reason you remember so few dreams or most remember so few.

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So let's assume it is a metaphysical experience. What is the purpose of a metaphysical experience that a person cannot remember? That's some whacky power dynamics.

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thealienthatategod said:

Icelander said:

and if someone could explain why people who don't want to be in a meat body that suffers decays and dies have to do it.

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your mom says, "because i said so"

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Icelander said:

thealienthatategod said:

Icelander said:

and if someone could explain why people who don't want to be in a meat body that suffers decays and dies have to do it.

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your mom says, "because i said so"

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Yeah that's pretty much it except they usually say this religion or that guru.

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OrgoneConclusion said:

When NDErs do see a deity or religious prophet/figure, it as ALWAYS the one corresponding to their pre-NDE faith. This speaks volumes as to the internal projection of the experience rather than some external location being visited.

As I am not a neurologist, this is the only NDE question of interest to me.

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Not sure that's true. Atheists have ended up believing in the afterlife after an NDE. Plus there may be some interplay between the individual and the afterlife.  For example lets say that as some say the afterlife is a soul trap to get  you to reincarnate to a prison planet for whatever reasons (the ideas vary), so these entities who want to trap you show up as dead loved relatives, or pets or deities. It's a disguise based on them reading  your brain memory tapes.   Nothing is off the table here folks so speculation is allowed since we can't actually go there.