Quote:

Among the most formidable of the obstacles which the new Constitution will have to encounter may readily be distinguished the obvious interest of a certain class of men in every State to resist all changes which may hazard a diminution of the power, emolument, and consequence of the offices they hold under the State establishments; and the perverted ambition of another class of men, who will either hope to aggrandize themselves by the confusions of their country, or will flatter themselves with fairer prospects of elevation from the subdivision of the empire into several partial confederacies than from its union under one government.

---

Deathcap99 said:

Venezuela. Thats all i need to say

---

qman said:

What happens when the state goes broke?

---

ApostleofAzathoth said:

Deathcap99 said:

Venezuela. Thats all i need to say

---

Venezuela is not, and has never been a socialist country. Under Chavez, an number of excellent reforms where implemented in an attempt to move the country towards socialism, but these where ultimately unsuccessful. Between 1999 and 2011--during Chavez's term in office--the private sectors share of economic activity increased from 65 percent to 71 percent. Venezuela is and has always been a poor nation, saddled with extreme economic sanctions, who's economy is dominated by the private sector. In any such nation, economic collapses should be expected to occur periodically. The solution? Socialism.

If you read the second link I provided, you will see ample evidence for how socialism has worked in many countries in the past and provided much better standards of living to their people than capitalist countries, relative to their wealth.

qman said:

What happens when the state goes broke?

---

I am not sure what you are asking. Assuming that a country has people, food, infrastructure, and weapons for self defense, then--under socialism--"the state going broke" is not a concern. That is sort of the whole point. These things wont just magically disappear. Famines, plagues, natural disasters, corruption, and invasion or influence from outside countries are still issues in socialist countries, but these occur in capitalist countries as well, so if you critique is "What if disease kills all your crops? Then what are you going to do? Checkmate socialists" then I think you are going to have to go back to the drawing board with that one.

---

ApostleofAzathoth said:

Could you provide an example please?

---

ApostleofAzathoth said:

Are you calling Greece a socialist nation?

---

ApostleofAzathoth said:

A socialist nation is one in which the workers control their workplaces. This is very different from a welfare state. Greece is most certainly not a socialist nation.

Here is the link to a video that will help to show how welfare states have nothing to do with socialism:

---

pineninja said:

Id prefer if you answered his question adequately rather than just deflect.

---

pineninja said:

Why don't you try it before dismissing it.

Greece does not define itself socialist.

---