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Offlinesleepysmoker
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Registered: 01/08/03
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I AM the witness only
    #2478012 - 03/27/04 02:59 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

The ONLY reason you, or anyone, suffers is because they idetify themselves with their bodies, and minds. In reality you are pure awareness. you are everything, you are the universe.to just be is to witness this universal self. to be the witness only, just constantly remind yourself that you simply are."I AM the witness only". Meditation is just being, and in silence of the mind, your true self will shine through more and more. you wont change if you are not earnest with just being, and if you are, you will gradually come to feel it on all levels...maybe it isnt too gradual, but whatever. you will feel its truth and you will truely be free from desire, pain, pleasure, and fear. you can still experience it all youd like, but you will be in total control.
if you take all of the experiences you have ever had, the only constant that remains throughout all of them is the fact that you are. when you just are, you are a witness to everything that goes on in your mind, and around you. a desireless, fearless witness. the desires still may exsist, but they exsist on a level that you know is not you. you just watch your mind or body desire something, and complete its task to get it. when you talk, you arent talking. there is talking. you arent writing, but there is writing. you are not your body and mind.
once you are over the idea of being a human body and identifying yourself with the minds ignorance, you realize and see that the entire universe is your body; so to speak. and even beyond that, you realize that you are no self. you are beyond ideas, words, all. you are nothing, and yet you are everything.

being very earnest with the thought I AM is the only way this realization will work. bring your attention back to that thought as much as possible and just be a witness.  once this is pretty well engrained you will be on an effortless path to liberation from all ignorance. it is so simple, its only returning to your natural state.





this is the jist of what i got from reading    I AM THAT : talks with Sri NISARGADDATA MAHARAJ

i recomend this book to everyone.

it was surprisingly hard to put this into words for me... maybe since its not to engrained into my mind yet.

  :heart: matt


Edited by sleepysmoker (03/27/04 03:05 PM)


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OfflineHahzist
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Re: I AM the witness only [Re: sleepysmoker]
    #2478035 - 03/27/04 03:07 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I have had similar thoughts as well, but the great thing about life to me as that I often come up with many different ways to describe life, reality, or the univserse. Some may be true, some may not, its just the nature of philosophizing that makes life worth contemplating and drugs worth doing. Nice post.


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OfflineViaggio
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Re: I AM the witness only [Re: Hahzist]
    #2478464 - 03/27/04 06:15 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I've read (and agree with) the idea that suffering is a direct result of desire.

From one of Cheryl Crow's songs...

It's not having what you want,
it's wanting what you've got.


Dig?


--------------------
"...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."


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Offlinesleepysmoker
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Re: I AM the witness only [Re: sleepysmoker]
    #2482796 - 03/30/04 07:06 AM (13 years, 29 days ago)

if you guys have had ANY thoughts or feelings about what i wrote, post!!

that sheryl crow lyric was confusing...i pmed you earlier.

peace


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OfflineAlan Stone
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Re: I AM the witness only [Re: sleepysmoker]
    #2484410 - 03/30/04 06:55 PM (13 years, 29 days ago)

I agree on not identifying with the host body. The mind, as a recepticle for inspiration, I do identify with. I don't have any trouble stilling my mind, I can do that at will, within a maximum of ten seconds.


--------------------
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle


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OfflineSource
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Re: I AM the witness only [Re: sleepysmoker]
    #2484697 - 03/30/04 08:18 PM (13 years, 29 days ago)

Absolutely right sleepysmoker...

The witness is the absolute subjective source of all perception. If you can experience something then it isn't you - you are what is experiencing it.

The witness cannot be witnessed. That which can be witnessed is not the witness. The Self cannot be perceived - it is the perceiver of all things.

The world, your body, your emotions, your mind can all be experienced. What is experiencing them? That is you.

The mind is not you. I can prove it. Do you experience your mind (hear your thoughts)? What is hearing your thoughts? That is you.


--------------------
What you're searching for is what's searching.


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OfflinePHARMAKOS
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Re: I AM the witness only [Re: Alan Stone]
    #2484714 - 03/30/04 08:24 PM (13 years, 29 days ago)

in your life youll shed every cell in your body like 7 times,. meaning your physical body now has literally not a single cell in common with the one you had at birth so like your not your body man
and your personality goes through massive shifts through life so that the person you are now is not the person you were then...
but youve always been
witnessing that is
good post


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Offlinecastaway
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Re: I AM the witness only [Re: sleepysmoker]
    #2486457 - 03/31/04 09:01 AM (13 years, 28 days ago)

I disagree.

Being pure awareness itself would be boring and self-defeating , a denunciation of Self.
In fact a creation of Self is necessary for the perception of "Progress", without which we may as well spend eternity as a rock in the Gobi desert.

The state of suffering, of dissatisfaction, is the natural state from which the pursuit of happiness progresses.
I agree that the state of suffering can be overcome thru dissacotiation, but then it's opposite, Joy, is also defeated....we can't have one without the other, just as we can't stay high all the time.

... I'm not certain about anything.


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OfflineSource
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Re: I AM the witness only [Re: castaway]
    #2486666 - 03/31/04 11:29 AM (13 years, 28 days ago)

castaway,

You are correct (as far as the model goes). Pure awareness IS a denunciation of self (ego). Creation IS necessary for the perception of 'progress'. Suffering IS innevitable in the pursuit of happiness.

Nevertheless, what you really are is the witness of all the joy and suffering in creation, not creation itself. The mind and body are part of the creation witnessed by you.

Realizing this and identifying with the absolute witness of all things rather than that which can be witnessed (mind) means that you can watch the whole show from a new, higher, more encompassing perspective. You will still experience suffering and joy, it just won't be 'you' crying and laughing. This will liberate you and at the same time allow you to dive deeper into the joy and pain of existence.


--------------------
What you're searching for is what's searching.


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Offlinecastaway
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Re: I AM the witness only [Re: Source]
    #2488313 - 03/31/04 10:17 PM (13 years, 27 days ago)

"what you really are is the witness of all the joy and suffering in creation, not creation itself"-

By becoming the third person (I am not me, I am not you, I am the witness)... we can endure pain that much easier...thru dissasociation...is my interpretation of what you just said...But I am of the opinion at THIS moment that we ARE creations, and as such can never hope to achieve gnosis on a level on par with the creator. There is no "identifying" with the absolute witness'.

"...means that you can watch the whole show from a new, higher, more encompassing perspective."-

I agree that the higher perspectives are there, and of enying that position, but even they are creations with limits and dissatisfactions in the context of Eternity, and victims of boredom and dissipation nonetheless...and appreciative therefore of the freedoms and expansion of horizons that accompanies a higher ranking.

I am speaking from experience but I probably have it all wrong again, I do get confused quite often...


Edited by castaway (03/31/04 10:27 PM)


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Invisible2Experimental
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Re: I AM the witness only [Re: sleepysmoker]
    #2488439 - 03/31/04 10:54 PM (13 years, 27 days ago)

rock on, good post and thoughts... this awareness is good L )(


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: I AM the witness only [Re: sleepysmoker]
    #2488917 - 04/01/04 01:03 AM (13 years, 27 days ago)

Yes...but...in the West, the Unconditioned State AND the Relative state are acknowledged as important to the total picture. The Upper Countenance and the Lower Countenance on the Kabbalistic Tree interface at Tiphereth (Beauty or Adornment), symbolized by the Heart. Here, as in Hindu Yoga symbolism, the Triangles of the Upper (Heaven) and Lower (Earthly) Realms, conjoin in the Six Pointed Star - the Hexagram. Unlike certain schools of Indian thought, as in Neoplatonic thought, the goal is not for the individual to disappear into GOD, it is for GOD (Infinity) to manifest (Incarnate) in the finite. Such is the goal in Kabbalistic restoration of the creation; in Orthodox Christian theosis (the Uncreated Energy 'eternalizes' the human spirit); or realization of the Great Mantra of the Vajrayana (Om Mani Padma Hum) - The Absolute is a Jewel in the Lotus of the Heart. Even in the Mahayana Buddhist Schools which say 'Nirvana is Samsara, Samsara is Nirvana,' the recognition is upon the Unconditioned AND the Relative. We are in fact BOTH, and should not, as humans, refuse to admit that we are both. Both poles, in turn are transcended by the One of which we can 'say' nothing, and THAT Reality is not spoken of in the West as one's identity, but as Wholly Other. GOD may enter us in measure, but when one enters GOD, there is no one left to say so.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineSource
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Re: I AM the witness only [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #2505531 - 04/01/04 02:06 PM (13 years, 27 days ago)

Markos,

There was a poem I remember hearing once. I don't remember who wrote it and I don't remember anything but the end, "...and at the end of our searching we will find ourselves back at the beginning again. But we will know the place for the first time."

So, the paradox is that we must seek in order to find where we always have been.

But where do we search? The mystics point INWARD. This doesn't mean that God is REALLY 'inside' us, we are only directed to conduct our search in this direction - within.

So, we forsake the world and travel within. We do this by searching for the "Self" as the absolute witness. What can be experienced (world, body, mind, soul) is not the true Self, since it is the Self which experiences these things. This is an exercise anyone can do to contact the absolute subjective witness of pure consciousness.

However, the absolute witness is NOT the Supreme Consciousness. It is the launching point. By "being" this pure subjective Witness with all the world (inside and outside) before you, you have arrived at the ultimate duality - YOU as pure awareness of the OTHER (Absolute Self and Absolute Other).

At this point there is the possibility that a 'final' realization can be made: That the Self cannot be found as any particular object in creation because the Self IS EVERY object in creation. Somehow in backing away from the world to it's final boundary, you fall completely back into it again, only now you know what you are - nothing and everything.

Sri Ramana Maharishi summarized this process and its paradox:

The world is illusory.
Brahman alone is real.
Brahman is the world.

By travelling within you find the without. Inside-outside, self-other are non-existant, mutually existant, the same. There are no words to describe this consciousness.

This, I belive, is what is sybolized by the heart. Where the 'unconditioned' and 'relative' states are reconciled. The incarnation of infinite God into finite creation.

NOTE: Most of the above information is summarized from Ken Wilber's book "No Boundary". Truly an awesome book (in my opinion).


--------------------
What you're searching for is what's searching.


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Offlinepeleg
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Re: I AM the witness only [Re: Source]
    #2505576 - 04/01/04 02:28 PM (13 years, 27 days ago)

suffering is good for we are comforted through are suffering by faith in the One who called us acorriding to His purpose.The greater our suffering the greater the comformity or blessing


--------------------
"Well the first days are the hardest days." When life looks like easy street there is danger at your door.....


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OfflineTeknoJunkie
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Re: I AM the witness only [Re: sleepysmoker]
    #2505738 - 04/01/04 03:34 PM (13 years, 27 days ago)

Sure we're observers.  That's how we learn and experience the world.  But I'd also like to believe we have this thing called Will.  And you, the observer, can will something and that is a formed extension of you.  Of what you've learned and experienced.  Expression is the greatest gift, and true expression goes along with being still.  Great thread.  Just my feelings. :smile:


--------------------
:oogle:  :pacman: :tripping:


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