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OfflineMAGnum
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Zero doesn't exsist.
    #3834170 - 02/25/05 07:59 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Simply put: Where is there one single occurance of inexsistance within exsistance?


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: Zero doesn't exsist. [Re: MAGnum]
    #3834182 - 02/25/05 08:03 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

a vacuum? or look at it from the negative to the positive... lacking a vacuum, there is 0 inexistence in all that exists.


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Offlinebelowground
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Re: Zero doesn't exsist. [Re: MAGnum]
    #3834195 - 02/25/05 08:09 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

zero is a theoretical mathematical idea. if something is nothing, it cannot exist, because existance implies that there is at least one of something. in the physical world, there is nothing less than a singularity. [1]


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OfflineMAGnum
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Re: Zero doesn't exsist. [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #3834220 - 02/25/05 08:16 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

That wouldn't work in one sence because the vacume exsists.

The fact is that there is still all sorts of radiation, gravity and other sorts of things still in the vacume or passing through the vacume makes annother strong statement as well. You would have to have no energy whatsoever in this vacume as well as no matter That is impossible. Sure a vacume has no air or matter in it, but there are all sorts of random energies passing through the cosmos.

It is impossible to have Zero because it is what is called an "immaginary" number. Zero within it's own essence does not represent a number and in a cosmos built on numbers, a non number doesn't happen. Inexsistance cannot happen because it would be in exsistance.


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OfflineProsgeopax
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Re: Zero doesn't exsist. [Re: MAGnum]
    #3834225 - 02/25/05 08:18 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Zero is a concept or label that helps us to intellectually grasp the absence of something. It comes in quite handy in numbering systems and the language of mathematics (unless you try to divide by it). It is a mistake to try and think of it as something it is not.


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Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes.

You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
- Tom Willhite

Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: Zero doesn't exsist. [Re: MAGnum]
    #3834243 - 02/25/05 08:23 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

MAGnum said:
That wouldn't work in one sence because the vacume exsists.

The fact is that there is still all sorts of radiation, gravity and other sorts of things still in the vacume or passing through the vacume makes annother strong statement as well.  You would have to have no energy whatsoever in this vacume as well as no matter  That is impossible.  Sure a vacume has no air or matter in it, but there are all sorts of random energies passing through the cosmos.




Hi MAGnum....!    :smile:

Aaahhh, I was going to debate this with you again, but you just killed my counterpoint....!   

:::::RazBerries::::
(Yummy YummY) 
:tongue:


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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Offlinesoulmotion
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Re: Zero doesn't exsist. [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #3834668 - 02/25/05 10:00 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I have to agree with what's been said: "zero is a theoretical mathematical idea..." and "Zero is a concept or label..."

Zero does exist as a concept, but not as an object.


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OfflineZekebomb
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Re: Zero doesn't exsist. [Re: MAGnum]
    #3834851 - 02/25/05 11:04 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Where is there one single occurance of inexsistance

nowhere.

you gotta admit though, zero does exist. take the title of this thread, for example.

from this we can conclude that zero is not the same as inexistance.


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Invisiblekaiowas
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Re: Zero doesn't exsist. [Re: MAGnum]
    #3834894 - 02/25/05 11:21 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

zero doesn't mean non existence.  its a relationship

when you have 8 apples and decide to pig out and eat them all, you are left with zero apples.

the concept is there to help our minds explain things.

when you first consume mushrooms and if you make a trip report, in the report you may put that point in "time" as t-0.

now back to your question.

" Where is there one single occurance of inexsistance within exsistance?"

i'm going out on a limb here because of lack of knowledge, but isn't that what a black hole is (as if I could know :wink: )? 

in a black hole there is the absence of light.  and to some who think that light is just an EM wave and that matter is this EM wave condensed to a slower vibration, then to them there is the non existence within the existence.  :shrug:


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


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OfflineZekebomb
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Re: Zero doesn't exsist. [Re: kaiowas]
    #3834901 - 02/25/05 11:23 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

in a black hole there is the absence of light.

nope. there's light in a black hole, it just doesn't escape to our eyeballs. plus even if there were an absence of light, the absence is something.


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Invisiblekaiowas
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Re: Zero doesn't exsist. [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3834947 - 02/25/05 11:37 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Zekebomb said:
in a black hole there is the absence of light.

nope. there's light in a black hole, it just doesn't escape to our eyeballs. plus even if there were an absence of light, the absence is something.




light has no mass, so it can't be in a black hole. I need to check this out more.


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


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OfflineMAGnum
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Re: Zero doesn't exsist. [Re: kaiowas]
    #3835029 - 02/25/05 11:57 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Things like anti-matter and black holes are exsistant as things. Energy cannot be destroyed or created, but simply changed from form to form. Black holes take all kinds of energy and suck it in a vortex patern. We see the stuff going into the black hole and some stuff does escape, but whatever is actually happenning inside the black hole is unknown. We can only theorize, but it is certainly not the destruction of energy, simply a change in it.

What I am saying with zero is yes, it is a concept, but the concept is false. Basically, you eat 8 apples and you are left with the illusion of zero apples. In fact, the apples will exsist as nurishment for your body. They haven't turned into zero apples, but they gone through a change from an apple into energy, your body, left over cores, etc.

Then the apple lives on in your actions and being; the nurishment you get from the fuel that it is is turned into your muscle movements and heart beat. If you do something while burning carbohydrates from the apple, the apply transforms into those actions because it fueled them. Those actions have repurcussions as well. When you stomp your feel, it makes noise and heavy vibrations which shake many things in it's radius. The energy is never destroyed and keeps going and going forever and never really gets to zero, although you can say it get's dilluted.

What I am trying to say is that in reality, a true 0 will never show up.


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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? <=== This "Zero" Doesn't Exsist..... Not any More(or less).... No Way.... =P [Re: MAGnum]
    #3835053 - 02/26/05 12:05 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Well damn, how is life as we know it going to exist as we know it without ZERO....?  We would have to go to a different mathematical base, like "Base-9"....  But, that still has a zero....    Hhhhmmmmm....  So is there any mathematical "way" that does NOT have a zero that we can use....? 

The whole Metric system would be gone....  Pearl Harbor would surely not have happened any more....  :tongue:  The guy I owe $10, I will only owe him $1 now....  :lol:  W00000T W00000T....!    (Now I will have to get him to buy into it)....    Hhhhhmmmmm....    All of the telephone operators will loose their jobs....  :frown:    And since we are getting rid of Zeros, we should prolly~ get rid of "O" & "o" from the alphebet - just because there are purists out there, and it *might* confusing or bring back old memories....  And of course, it is now Feb-25-2__5....  (I think this will be much worse that the Y2K problem that didn't happen....!?)  Gonna~ have to call Webster to get the Dictionary updated....  They will also have to take "Johnny Zero" off TV....  It's ok, I have never seen it before....  :wink:    No more pesky cooridinate systems, well, they at least wouldn't have an origin any more - 1,1,1....?  And No more "breaking even"....  From now on, "Zorro" will have to be known as "Zrr"....  :tongue:  Damn, this is kinda~ fun....!  :lol:    Aaaawww SHIT, the digital domain is going to be totally screwed on this....!    Half of it will be GONE into inexistance....!!!???    :shake:    What is going to happen to Neo, Morphious, Trinity, and the rest of the crew on The Matrix....???    :frown:  OOoohhh, this is not good, this is NOT good....


OK, we HAVE to come to a compromise here, I like the Matrix....  And I just happen to have an Idea....!  :grin:  :light:

0 <===  Lets keep these, and re-name them, with an explicit rule that they ONLY be used for math as a placeholder value....
? <===  Lets get rid of these, and call them "Zero" (no more).... 


Plan....?    PLEEEEEEEESSSSEEEEEE....?  For the children...?  :lol:

:shrug:



:tongue:


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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InvisibleZero7a1
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Re: Zero doesn't exsist. [Re: MAGnum]
    #3835322 - 02/26/05 01:15 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I exist...  :laugh:  :wink:


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Offlinefresh313
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Re: Zero doesn't exsist. [Re: Zero7a1]
    #3835860 - 02/26/05 06:54 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

no movement = zero

absolute


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Zero doesn't exsist. [Re: fresh313]
    #3835886 - 02/26/05 07:31 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

-Zero- surrounds nothing.. :wink:


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Disclaimer!?


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: Zero doesn't exsist. [Re: MAGnum]
    #3835940 - 02/26/05 08:27 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Totally depends on what definition of "zero" you're using, obviously.

The original poster meant "zero" to mean "nonexistance"..

Several other posters meant "zero" to mean "a label and conceptual idea used in mathematics"

So how about... "zero" as in the center of a dual-axis grid?

In which case, I contend the exact opposite of the title of this thread:

Zero exists everywhere.


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: Zero doesn't exsist. [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #3835946 - 02/26/05 08:35 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

JacquesCousteau said:
So how about... "zero" as in the center of a dual-axis grid?
.
In which case, I contend the exact opposite of the title of this thread:
.
Zero exists everywhere.




That's pretty cool actually....    ::::ponders::::


:sun:


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: Zero doesn't exsist. [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #3835968 - 02/26/05 08:48 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

PhanTomCat said:
::::ponders::::




You just made my day! :smile:  :heart:


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: Zero doesn't exsist. [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #3836003 - 02/26/05 09:16 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Could zero be turned inside out, or would that be a stretch....?

::::ponders some more::::

What ISSssss that ever dynamically mounting "ripping" noise....?  :grin:



:heart:


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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