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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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Re: The burden of proof - Who has it? [Re: sudly]
    #24733021 -

Quote:
You can love a chicken for the time you are with them, with emotional and/or literal profit from their being and their eggs and not their meat.


Where did I deny that you COULD love a chicken and how does the fact that you can in any way refute my argument? It seems you continuously miss the point.

Quote:
A television isn't of the same structure as my atoms. It's the specific structure of my atoms that enables me to know my knowledge.


What specifically about the structure?


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The path of the herbalist is to open ourselves to nature in an innocent and pure way. SHe in turn will open her bounty and reward us with many valuable secrets. May the earth bless you. - Michael Tierra

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Re: The burden of proof - Who has it? [Re: Peyote Road]
    #24733091 -

You didn't deny a chicken could be loved, I just said my god doesn't do it unconditionally.

I mean I can still love a chicken and so can you.

Quote:
What specifically about the structure?


Specifically what it can do, like how the structure of my atoms can generate sound waves to produce a word that sounds like hello, and how my fingers can interact with a keyboard to express what might otherwise remain as thin air.


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.


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Re: The burden of proof - Who has it? [Re: sudly]
    #24733095 -

Quote:
You didn't deny a chicken could be loved, I just said my god doesn't do it unconditionally.

I mean I can still love a chicken and so can you.


You still haven't justified your use of the word love.

Quote:
Specifically what it can do, like how the structure of my atoms can generate sound waves to produce a word that sounds like hello, and how my fingers can interact with a keyboard to express what might otherwise remain as thin air.



Im not sure what saying hello or playing music using a  keyboard have to do with knowing.


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The path of the herbalist is to open ourselves to nature in an innocent and pure way. SHe in turn will open her bounty and reward us with many valuable secrets. May the earth bless you. - Michael Tierra

Edited by Peyote Road (10/24/17 12:46 AM)

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Re: The burden of proof - Who has it? [Re: Peyote Road]
    #24733111 -

Quote:
You still haven't justified your use of the word love.


I gave it in context but I can adapt to yours. 

Quote:
My god loves us conditionally, but it always provides and is capable of change and adaptation, embetterment and progress.


A better way to say it may be that my god is loved for its existence, and some of its deeds and creations, but not all deeds are fair or just or right or wrong, they just are in Nature. As for how my god can love us, well it doesn't hate us.

Quote:
Im not sure what saying hello or playing music using a  keyboard have to do with knowing.


And I know I can type and speak which is an important first step.


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.


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Re: The burden of proof - Who has it? [Re: sudly]
    #24733127 -

Well in summary you haven't really explained how it is human beings have the ability to know things, and your conception of God appears markedly different from Spinoza's.


--------------------
The path of the herbalist is to open ourselves to nature in an innocent and pure way. SHe in turn will open her bounty and reward us with many valuable secrets. May the earth bless you. - Michael Tierra

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Re: The burden of proof - Who has it? [Re: Peyote Road]
    #24733142 -

Quote:
Well in summary you haven't really explained how it is human beings have the ability to know things, and your conception of God appears markedly different from Spinoza's.


The combined processes and interactions of the organs inside our bodies allow us to remember the environment we interact with, as in we know things by learning.

So far all I've heard you suggest for how humans have the ability to know is through some ethereal network of knowing elements.

My conception of god is that it is nature, though to be honest my conception of evolution isn't exactly the same as Darwin's either. That said, I still think it's self evident that the idea of Spinoza's god is that it is being synonymous to nature.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.


Edited by sudly (10/24/17 01:48 AM)

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Re: The burden of proof - Who has it? [Re: sudly]
    #24733153 -

We may come to know things by learning but that just shifts the question to how it is we have the capacity for learning. It comes back to the question of consciousness again, which is still quite mysterious.

And as I said, your conception of God is still markedly different from Spinoza's. People can disagree on the nature of nature.


--------------------
The path of the herbalist is to open ourselves to nature in an innocent and pure way. SHe in turn will open her bounty and reward us with many valuable secrets. May the earth bless you. - Michael Tierra

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Re: The burden of proof - Who has it? [Re: Peyote Road]
    #24733160 -

However it came about it's evident we have a capacity for learning, and most people I would think agree that the nature of nature is relevant to evolution.


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.


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Re: The burden of proof - Who has it? [Re: sudly]
    #24733171 -

I would agree but I am saying not everyone has the same ideas about the nature of nature. We don't really know what nature is, in my opinion. It's very mysterious. The magic mushroom really hit home this idea for me, more so than any other substance.


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The path of the herbalist is to open ourselves to nature in an innocent and pure way. SHe in turn will open her bounty and reward us with many valuable secrets. May the earth bless you. - Michael Tierra

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Re: The burden of proof - Who has it? [Re: Peyote Road]
    #24733176 -

Quote:
I would agree but I am saying not everyone has the same ideas about the nature of nature. We don't really know what nature is, in my opinion. It's very mysterious. The magic mushroom really hit home this idea for me, more so than any other substance.


I don't know how it went for you but I have had a kind of unmatched serenity through those fungi, in this sense I know how you feel about god but I don't see eye to eye that we can not know what nature is, although you aren't suggesting we can't, I'm suggesting we can already know what the rudiments of cognition are in accordance to the state experienced by human beings when under the influence of psilocybin.


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.


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Re: The burden of proof - Who has it? [Re: sudly]
    #24733181 -

I don't understand.


--------------------
The path of the herbalist is to open ourselves to nature in an innocent and pure way. SHe in turn will open her bounty and reward us with many valuable secrets. May the earth bless you. - Michael Tierra

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Re: The burden of proof - Who has it? [Re: Peyote Road]
    #24733183 -

I too believe that magic mushrooms are mysterious.

Quote:
mysterious: difficult or impossible to understand, explain, or identify.



--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.


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Re: The burden of proof - Who has it? [Re: sudly]
    #24733186 -

Well yes and in that sense, they reveal the spirit of nature. At least that's how I experienced them.


--------------------
The path of the herbalist is to open ourselves to nature in an innocent and pure way. SHe in turn will open her bounty and reward us with many valuable secrets. May the earth bless you. - Michael Tierra

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Re: The burden of proof - Who has it? [Re: Peyote Road]
    #24733194 -

Quote:
Well yes and in that sense, they reveal the spirit of nature. At least that's how I experienced them.


The spirit of nature may be difficult to understand, explain, or identify but this need not necessarily mean it is impossible.

I believe the entirety of the human spirit can be modeled, visualised and observed to remain within the tight bounds of the compactable by being in line with anatomical structures and electromagnetic influences.

From magic M's, have you ever had a bad trip, a pounding heart, an eerie gut feeling? Mine have always ended in good nature.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.


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Re: The burden of proof - Who has it? [Re: sudly]
    #24733197 -

I've never had a bad trip on magic mushrooms, they are the only psychedelic I've never had a bad trip on.

Quote:
The spirit of nature may be difficult to understand, explain, or identify but this need not necessarily mean it is impossible.

I believe the entirety of the human spirit can be modeled, visualised and observed to remain within the tight bounds of the compactable by being in line with anatomical structures and electromagnetic influences.


That's why the Bible says we were created in God's image.


--------------------
The path of the herbalist is to open ourselves to nature in an innocent and pure way. SHe in turn will open her bounty and reward us with many valuable secrets. May the earth bless you. - Michael Tierra

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Re: The burden of proof - Who has it? [Re: Peyote Road]
    #24733201 -

Quote:
I've never had a bad trip on magic mushrooms, they are the only psychedelic I've never had a bad trip on.


They be smooth for psychedelics.

Quote:
That's why the Bible says we were created in God's image.


Have you ever put your dick in a bible though? Because it wouldn't shock me if you did.
Why does the bible say we were created in gods image?


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.


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Re: The burden of proof - Who has it? [Re: sudly]
    #24733221 -

What do you mean put my dick in Bible?

The Bible says man was created in the image because it's a great metaphor for explaining how man's physical being reflects the reality from brought him into existence. Like you said, all the anatomical structures reflect something about man's spirit.


--------------------
The path of the herbalist is to open ourselves to nature in an innocent and pure way. SHe in turn will open her bounty and reward us with many valuable secrets. May the earth bless you. - Michael Tierra

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Re: The burden of proof - Who has it? [Re: Peyote Road]
    #24733228 -

I just don't see how people can rely on it.

Quote:
The Bible says man was created in the image


Can you share this image of god? Or are you just going to post a selfie? Seeing as you're suggesting humans were created in the image of god.

Quote:
because it's a great metaphor for explaining how man's physical being reflects the reality from brought him into existence.


So man is a part of physical reality..

Quote:
Like you said, all the anatomical structures reflect something about man's spirit.


And it's not that these anatomical structures simply reflect something about man's spirit, it's that they make it.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.


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Re: The burden of proof - Who has it? [Re: sudly]
    #24733239 -

I don't know if we can say they make it. In a sense they are it, they are a part of it or a manifestation of it. I wouldn't go as far as to say they make it though. See plato's allegory of the cave. We have no sound bases for believing the physical world is the most fundamental part of reality.

People rely on the Bible because it speaks to them. Have you tried studying the Bible while tripping on mushrooms? It might make more sense then. The mythological stories in the Bible are allegories and metaphors about life. They were written by spiritually conscious people and contain valuable lessons when properly understood.


--------------------
The path of the herbalist is to open ourselves to nature in an innocent and pure way. SHe in turn will open her bounty and reward us with many valuable secrets. May the earth bless you. - Michael Tierra

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Re: The burden of proof - Who has it? [Re: Peyote Road]
    #24733256 -

Quote:
I don't know if we can say they make it. In a sense they are it, they are a part of it or a manifestation of it.


You know what that's close enough for me. :thumbup:

Quote:
We have no sound bases for believing the physical world is the most fundamental part of reality.


We have a sound basis for believing the physical world is the most fundamental part of the fight or flight response system within human beings.

Quote:
People rely on the Bible because it speaks to them. Have you tried studying the Bible while tripping on mushrooms? It might make more sense then. The mythological stories in the Bible are allegories and metaphors about life. They were written by spiritually conscious people and contain valuable lessons when properly understood.


I haven't heard many people recommend psychedelics to interpret or understand the bible but you do you.
I get that there can be valuable lessons in some of the bibles many metaphors but I contend that they remain purely as metaphors.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.


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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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