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Re: Proof Of US Hate Crime Rise Since Trump [Re: Stonehenge] * 1
    #24703243 -

your graph shows real wages in a more or less steady decline since '69 while youth unemployment is all over the map

I feel like i addressed the shit out of this graph previously.  maybe it was a different one.

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Re: Proof Of US Hate Crime Rise Since Trump [Re: Stonehenge]
    #24703297 -

Stonehenge said:
"If we chose an earlier (or later) start date, the graph would look relatively flat.

So you want to do the cherry picking, it all comes out now. The graph shows the last 60 years and that is a long enough time


I'm saying the graph is up and down but relatively flat long term (as balls confirmed).  You can make it look like it's going up or down depending on the start and end dates you pick.

The important point is that unemployment went DOWN 9 out of 19 times minimum wage was raised, meaning it doesn't appear to have much effect at all on unemployment.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Proof Of US Hate Crime Rise Since Trump [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 2
    #24703350 -

It's ironic that he said you are cherry picking data because you want to show more of it. The definition of cherry picking is when you show only a subset of the data that fits your view.

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Re: Proof Of US Hate Crime Rise Since Trump [Re: krypto2000] * 2
    #24703392 -

Krypto, I haven't seen you around here for very long, and I don't know if you've participated much in this subforum.

One thing you need to understand, is that Stonehenge does not give a flying fuck about what is really true or not true. He see's this as a competition, and he wants to win. He will run you in circles for days, til you end up leaving the forum, or pulling your hair out.

My suggestion: Don't bother trying to reason with the unreasonable.

Akira is similar, but he doesn't even seem to have a purpose.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"No my dog won't bite you, tho it had the right to. You ought to give him credit, cuz he knows I woulda let him" - Modest Mouse (And Wooof!)
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns


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Re: Proof Of US Hate Crime Rise Since Trump [Re: Bigbadwooof] * 2
    #24703536 -

Yah, that's actually why I haven't been on in awhile, internet debates and news, especially politics, was affecting my mood lol. Sometimes you just have to take a break. They need to make some troll repellent.

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Re: Proof Of US Hate Crime Rise Since Trump [Re: krypto2000]
    #24703587 -

whatever, you said that i convinced you of somethings, didn't i? well, what? no follow-through? what does Bigbadwolf even have to SAY in this forum, about policy? rarely stays on point, always talks about people in the most outrageous way, and then makes near no mention of any political point. all i've seen him mention is German Workers Councils. that's it.

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Re: Proof Of US Hate Crime Rise Since Trump [Re: akira_akuma] * 1
    #24703631 -

Pretty much nobody discusses actual policy in this sub, thats why ball had to create shroomery think tank in order to have serious political discussions.

I create a thread here about single payer, and its just 20 pages of "oh wow i guess we should let the government control every aspect of our lives!"


--------------------

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Re: Proof Of US Hate Crime Rise Since Trump [Re: krypto2000]
    #24703648 -

krypto2000 said:
Yah, that's actually why I haven't been on in awhile, internet debates and news, especially politics, was affecting my mood lol. Sometimes you just have to take a break. They need to make some troll repellent.


Well, honestly, I have been advocating just blocking the trolls on this forum, but it seems that most conservatives are trolls (though I will give Qman credit, I don't count him among them. Not entirely at least, and I have not advocated blocking him either). That's probably mostly true on this website, because you have to be a special kind of retard to endorse conservative policies, and also be a regular on a mushroom/ethnobotanical website lol! How can you simultaneously not give a fuck about the environment, and have a desire to grow plants in your home?


"They — we'll be fine with the environment," Trump replied. "We can leave a little bit, but you can't destroy businesses." - Donald J(erkoff) Trump

I ventured onto Reddit/Political Discussion, and they have rules over there, that pretty much ensure that the discussion doesn't devolve into a shit-fest. In fact, some SJW cunt started ripping on white people, and the whole sub-thread was removed entirely. It was great!

I want to post more on the think tank sub, but I don't have the patience right now to contribute on the level I think balls would like over there yet.

I've been taking a break from politics too. It's all so very depressing these days. Cable news is like tabloid television... It corrodes my faith in humanity, and I find it utterly depressing.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"No my dog won't bite you, tho it had the right to. You ought to give him credit, cuz he knows I woulda let him" - Modest Mouse (And Wooof!)
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns


Edited by Bigbadwooof (10/11/17 10:30 PM)

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Re: Proof Of US Hate Crime Rise Since Trump [Re: akira_akuma] * 1
    #24704023 -

akira_akuma said:
sure just discount him because you don't like him. he's not "going with the flow", he's "going against the grain".

must ignore him.


is that what you really believe, akira? 

do you honestly think it has nothing to do with the stonebot ignoring questions and evidence it doesn't like while engaging in spin, extreme hyperbole, and childlike generalizations of the basest type while putting words in the mouths of other posters?

the manual ignore has zero to do with going against the flow.  i belong to a political forum populated by people who are both L and R of center.  about 40% are right of and 60% are left of center and the way the stonebot posts is not tolerated by anyone, no matter their views, because it isn't productive in the slightest.  in that forum one can discuss things like an adult or one can fuck off to other forums; a lot more gets accomplished that way.  people sometimes actually modify their views due to the discussions, as shocking as that might sound to some people.

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Re: Proof Of US Hate Crime Rise Since Trump [Re: relic] * 1
    #24704173 -

Well said relic.

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Re: Proof Of US Hate Crime Rise Since Trump [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #24704509 -

Quote:
I create a thread here about single payer, and its just 20 pages of "oh wow i guess we should let the government control every aspect of our lives!"


that's some people concerns. :shrug:
Quote:
is that what you really believe, akira?

do you honestly think it has nothing to do with the stonebot ignoring questions and evidence it doesn't like while engaging in spin, extreme hyperbole, and childlike generalizations of the basest type while putting words in the mouths of other posters?


all posters do the above ignoring of evidence they don't like while engaging in spin and hyperbole and childlike generalizations. how many times have i been called an "alt-right" for the fact that i don't think Donald Trump isn't the "big bad guy" of the year, and don't lump heaps and heaps of criticism on him?

this always happens here. don't ignore when people do this shit to me, or Stonehenge now. Stonehenge gets named-called, et al, all the same as anyone else. ignored, hyperbolic comments are made about him and his ideology. hell, alot of the times, from a particular user here, it's just "right-wingers are idiots that need to die" insults. pretty specific target, most of the time, if you'd ask me.

krypto2000 said:
Well said relic.


no, it wasn't. typical bandwagoning.

a year ago, 'making fun of right-wingers' (in general) was something i was getting heaps of praise for, too.

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Re: Proof Of US Hate Crime Rise Since Trump [Re: akira_akuma] * 1
    #24704804 -

I don't care what his political views are, those are welcome, whether I agree with them or not especially if I don't agree with them, otherwise I wouldn't be here. I'm not "making fun" of anyone, I'm complaining that he doesn't offer an.. here let me just quote it again for you Akuma:

krypto2000 said:
No, it's because he offers nothing but opinions, jokes, and insults to the debate. Not only does he not offer empirical evidence but he doesn't even offer reasons or theories to support his own views. You value him because he shares your opinion I assume and that's why you're defending him.


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Re: Proof Of US Hate Crime Rise Since Trump [Re: krypto2000]
    #24704814 -

stop misreading words. i never said anything about you. :facepalm: read my post again, is there reference to you?

this is why it's pointless to do this shit. i said something, and you can't even appreciate or let alone apprehend what was said. not you...but OTHERS, like Big Bad Woolf and Falcon and Ecstatic, they simply berate him constantly, so he's sick of taking it on the chin everytime he tries to make a point, because he simply gets mocked, or have you missed the countless instances of this happening over the years? i haven't. so wtf are you talking about again? :shrug:

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Re: Proof Of US Hate Crime Rise Since Trump [Re: akira_akuma] * 1
    #24704819 -

akira_akuma said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said:  I create a thread here about single payer, and its just 20 pages of "oh wow i guess we should let the government control every aspect of our lives!"


that's some people concerns. :shrug:


it's fine for them to have concerns (spell them out and let's discuss!), but single payer healthcare is not, by any stretch of the imagination, letting the gov't control every aspect of their lives.  yes, Ecstatic was using hyperbole as a literary device and not everyone did that (or they didn't literally do that).  but a lot of people jump directly to that extreme booshit without even trying to discuss the issue and it contributes to the conversation not at all.  that's the problem or at least one of the problems; the inability to simply discuss things without twisting what someone is saying, all the while going off into a deep end that nobody suggested or stated.

Quote:
is that what you really believe, akira?

do you honestly think it has nothing to do with the stonebot ignoring questions and evidence it doesn't like while engaging in spin, extreme hyperbole, and childlike generalizations of the basest type while putting words in the mouths of other posters?


akira_akuma said:
all posters do the above ignoring of evidence they don't like while engaging in spin and hyperbole and childlike generalizations.


i don't see all posters doing that in this sub.

akira_akuma said:
how many times have i been called an "alt-right" for the fact that i don't think Donald Trump isn't the "big bad guy" of the year, and don't lump heaps and heaps of criticism on him?


you don't get called alt-right simply because you're not criticizing trump enough. 

akira_akuma said:
this always happens here. Stonehenge gets named-called, et al, all the same as anyone else. ignored, hyperbolic comments are made about him and his ideology.


re: stonehenge, people reciprocate with him.  about 99.873046% of the time he starts his comments--comments often made to people who are being sensible and genuine--with complete junk like the following: the loony left never deals with facts; the demoncrats never think critically; the LL always argues with emotions and always expect us reasonable conservatives to provide proof but they never do; etc. etc. etc.  i can get the direct quotes if you've forgotten how he does this, unprovoked.  out of over one hundred posts, i can count the number of serious posts he has made in this sub on one hand.  it is impossible to have a dialogue with, or even treat seriously, someone who does that, akira.

RE: you.  people misunderstand what you're trying to say most of the time.  i haven't yet read your response but i mentioned that yesterday...you spend a bunch of your time just reiterating what you said and correcting people because of the confusing posting style.

akira_akuma said:  hell, alot of the times, from a particular user here, it's just "right-wingers are idiots that need to die" insults. pretty specific target, most of the time, if you'd ask me.


if i know who you're talking about, i take about 95 out of 100 of his posts as satire.  maybe i should do that with the stonebot, too, but he seems like he's taking himself seriously so it's hard to do.

Quote:
krypto2000 said:
Well said relic.


akira_akuma said:
no, it wasn't. typical bandwagoning.


no bandwagoning here.  you're mistaken.

akira_akuma said:
a year ago, 'making fun of right-wingers' (in general) was something i was getting heaps of praise for, too.


is it at all surprising that people upvote posts with which they agree?  what relevance does upvoting a post have in this context, plz?

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Re: Proof Of US Hate Crime Rise Since Trump [Re: akira_akuma]
    #24704847 -

akira_akuma said:
stop misreading words. i never said anything about you. :facepalm: read my post again, is there reference to you?

this is why it's pointless to do this shit. i said something, and you can't even appreciate or let alone apprehend what was said. not you...but OTHERS, like Big Bad Woolf and Falcon and Ecstatic, they simply berate him constantly, so he's sick of taking it on the chin everytime he tries to make a point, because he simply gets mocked, or have you missed the countless instances of this happening over the years? i haven't. so wtf are you talking about again? :shrug:


Not only did you respond to me but you even quoted me, what are you talking about?

akira_akuma said:
krypto2000 said:
Well said relic.


no, it wasn't. typical bandwagoning.

a year ago, 'making fun of right-wingers' (in general) was something i was getting heaps of praise for, too.


^ THAT ^ Is what I was responding to. I didn't even read the read of your post because it wasn't to me.

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Re: Proof Of US Hate Crime Rise Since Trump [Re: relic] * 1
    #24704858 -

Quote:
that's the problem or at least one of the problems; the inability to simply discuss things without twisting what someone is saying, all the while going off into a deep end that nobody suggested or stated.


simply hogwash. i'm sick of this line of reasoning, but i'll play along.

Ecstatic, at every opportunity, uses rhetorical banter to "twist" what people are saying. if you can't see that, then alright.

Quote:
i don't see all posters doing that in this sub.


alright.

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24701246#24701246
^ wow, sounds like Hostile. everyone is a "brainwashed righty" to this guy. any post that he feels like it, off he goes.

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24702788#24702788
Ecstatic, get him annoyed enough (with questioning)

and he'll instigate, and then everyone else who is online piles on.

it's all very typical to see. you're just putting your blinders on, or are simply unawares.

Quote:
re: stonehenge, people reciprocate with him.  about 99.873046% of the time he starts his comments--comments often made to people who are being sensible and genuine--with complete junk like the following: the loony left never deals with facts; the demoncrats never think critically; the LL always argues with emotions and always expect us reasonable conservatives to provide proof but they never do; etc. etc. etc.  i can get the direct quotes if you've forgotten how he does this, unprovoked.  out of over one hundred posts, i can count the number of serious posts he has made in this sub on one hand.  it is impossible to have a dialogue with, or even treat seriously, someone who does that, akira


i've already explained, he's had enough, so he just speaks in short form, instead of reiterating himself, over and over again. yeah, "loony left" whatever, i've spoken about that alot before. remember? it's annoying, but i get why he resorts to that line of reasoning. because the same tired arguments already always come up, and people around here just assume that some correlative data 'absolutely speaks', for them, 'the truth' (see what i did there?), and since it's hard correlative data, they presume it's much better evidence than deductive reasoning, using basic econ.
:shrug: any teacher would be able to whip them in shape, i'm sad that Stonehenge isn't a teacher. because no matter how you look at it, people acting like they know something, based on correlative data (meaning: not empirically proven, but ASSUMED to be, due to arrogance), acting as certain about what their own data says about their own methodologies precision and about what their own premise is for what is the proper direction for society- is pretty much like acting as certain as Stonehenge is about his deductive reasoning which is just as correlative.

people keep asking for evidence, and the empiricists, they provide correlations, just the same, as Stonehenge. :shrug: only they have "hard data", so this justifies their leap of faith to conclusions.

Quote:
RE: you.  people misunderstand what you're trying to say most of the time.  i haven't yet read your response but i mentioned that yesterday...you spend a bunch of your time just reiterating what you said and correcting people because of the confusing posting style.


i'll resort to hard logic if i have to-- my posts are constructed, like most of my writing of this sort, to be as logically water-tight as possible, while trying to get my point across, so as they can hardly be deconstructed without running down, let's just say, 'the logical faultline' of the opposing argument- so they must meet in air-tight-ness, so to speak.

simply means less room to circle the drain.

Quote:
if i know who you're talking about, i take about 95 out of 100 of his posts as satire.  maybe i should do that with the stonebot, too, but he seems like he's taking himself seriously so it's hard to do


it is satire. only he's not a satirist. Stonehenge says some satirical thing that is meant to be facetious, only it's taken as serious by some very sorry people because his deadpan delivery is unacceptable, because he gets away with it too easily, which is the whole point of satire. i'd say Big Bad Wolf also gets away with it too easily.

i never did.

Quote:
no bandwagoning here.  you're mistaken.


sure, if you say so. i might be misreading you. but certainly Ecstatic, Big Bad Wolf, and Fal, they are in a bandwagon, they ride it around this forum all day. which is fine, i'm inclined to believe it's quite natural. once i was given heaps of +1's, and it was all because i 'made satire'....now, how things have changed, because i stood up for right-wing advocates ONCE, i'm labelled an "alt-right", here. :shrug: you tell me if that's bandwagoning. maybe you're not in it, but it's surely there.

Quote:
is it at all surprising that people upvote posts with which they agree?  what relevance does upvoting a post have in this context, plz?


see above.

krypto2000, you are so confused.

Quote:
I don't care what his political views are, those are welcome, whether I agree with them or not especially if I don't agree with them, otherwise I wouldn't be here. I'm not "making fun" of anyone, I'm complaining that he doesn't offer an..


who is talking about "you"?


Quote:
all posters do the above ignoring of evidence they don't like while engaging in spin and hyperbole and childlike generalizations. how many times have i been called an "alt-right" for the fact that i don't think Donald Trump isn't the "big bad guy" of the year, and don't lump heaps and heaps of criticism on him?

this always happens here. don't ignore when people do this shit to me, or Stonehenge now. Stonehenge gets named-called, et al, all the same as anyone else. ignored, hyperbolic comments are made about him and his ideology. hell, alot of the times, from a particular user here, it's just "right-wingers are idiots that need to die" insults. pretty specific target, most of the time, if you'd ask me.


in the bold, show me one mention of "you".

Quote:
Well said relic.


is relic "you"?

no. i don't think it is.


Quote:
Pretty much nobody discusses actual policy in this sub



no one agrees on policy. that's all. some people think we should roll back policy, and when people say something to that effect, people come back with absurd arguments about "what about the homeless" or  "what about wages" or "what about fairness" and people have plenty of disagreements, and these 'people' come back with notions of policy and legislation to commit to law to "help" these problems, all the while, the problems get shifted elsewhere, crime, poverty, greed, and violence, still persist, and yet, the people saying "roll it back", whom don't have any NEW policy to point to, but only criticisms of the OLD ONES, get told "look at our 'empirical data' to prove things we want to see, through correlations."

i think it see the fucking problem here.

Edited by akira_akuma (10/12/17 01:51 PM)

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Re: Proof Of US Hate Crime Rise Since Trump [Re: krypto2000] * 1
    #24704880 -

Are you purposefully not reading what I said? I was not responding to anything you just bolded, I didn't even READ that before making my response, I was responding to this:

akira_akuma said:
krypto2000 said:
Well said relic.


no, it wasn't. typical bandwagoning.

a year ago, 'making fun of right-wingers' (in general) was something i was getting heaps of praise for, too.


And this is is my response:

krypto2000 said:
I don't care what his political views are, those are welcome, whether I agree with them or not especially if I don't agree with them, otherwise I wouldn't be here. I'm not "making fun" of anyone, I'm complaining that he doesn't offer an.. here let me just quote it again for you Akuma:

krypto2000 said:
No, it's because he offers nothing but opinions, jokes, and insults to the debate. Not only does he not offer empirical evidence but he doesn't even offer reasons or theories to support his own views. You value him because he shares your opinion I assume and that's why you're defending him.



edit: Are you trying to say that you quoted me in order to respond to EVERYONE ELSE? If so how am I supposed to get that from your post? If someone is staring at me and talking they shouldn't get mad when I respond claiming they're talking to everyone but me, that is absurd.

Edited by krypto2000 (10/12/17 01:53 PM)

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Re: Proof Of US Hate Crime Rise Since Trump [Re: krypto2000]
    #24704882 -

ARE YOU RELIC, NO YOU AREN'T.

so i wasn't talking about you. was i? i wasn't specifically, because you are practically new around here. don't tempt me to ignore someone just because they simply can't read. it's not a new feature around here. but holy shit man....

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Re: Proof Of US Hate Crime Rise Since Trump [Re: akira_akuma] * 1
    #24704888 -

Are you trying to say that you quoted me in order to respond to EVERYONE ELSE? If so how am I supposed to get that from your post?

If someone is staring at me and talking they shouldn't get mad when I respond and claim they're talking to everyone but me, that is absurd. And Akuma, I've been a member for 11 years, at this point I'm one of the oldest people here probably, you've been a member for 9.

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Re: Proof Of US Hate Crime Rise Since Trump [Re: krypto2000]
    #24704895 -

great, and you rarely if ever post here. so i take it you haven't see or participating in most of the shitposting that goes about "right-wingers" being so "dumb". and it goes on and on.

and you know what, this is a discussion, this is not some man-to-man where i have to address you personally, all the time. infer FROM MY WORDS. the ones i type. not the ones i don't type.

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