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Re: Proof Of US Hate Crime Rise Since Trump [Re: akira_akuma] * 2
    #24702541 -

I don't think it's useless, whether I've changed anyone else's opinions or beliefs over the course of this debate I don't know, but others have at least changed some of mine and some of my other opinions have expanded. Normally when a discussion turns into a circle jerk, either of agreeance or dispute, is when I stop participating, that has happened here too.

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Re: Proof Of US Hate Crime Rise Since Trump [Re: krypto2000]
    #24702547 -

sorry i'm not sure that you have. but maybe! so you shouldn't be discouraged!

but i'm just being cynical. you want to hear my thoughts on the subject?
no? too bad.

if logic is a drain, which it is, than conversation is the faucet.

it's such a bore. honestly. but i really don't think anyone's mind has been changed, let alone expanded- not by much- because you spread yourself (and we all spread ourselves) too thin. but that's just my opinion- sometimes my mood gets very dour, maybe this explains my intuition.

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Re: Proof Of US Hate Crime Rise Since Trump [Re: Stonehenge] * 2
    #24702576 -

Stonehenge said:
Lol, an opinion piece from an obscure site using carefully cherry picked numbers is "empirical evidence"? A meta study is just that, they didn't do any actual work they picked and chose what to look at.


No, they didn't "pick and choose".  That's the beauty of the study - they looked at data from ALL US minimum wage increases.  More data is always better than cherry picked data.  :cookiemonster:

And if you read the study, you'd realize it wasn't "opinion".  The methodology was carefully explained.  It was a very scientific study.

Stonehenge said:
I have already destroyed your little claims with my own chart as you may recall. But you have selective amnesia on things like that. My chart clearly showed a correlation between min wage and unemployment particularly for the young. If you want to deny it I can post it again.


Yes, I realize there's a brief very small increase in unemployment that predominantly impacts young low wage workers, and I've acknowledged that in previous posts.  But it's only a VERY small impact, it only effects young low wage workers, and most importantly, it's only temporary.

It's interesting that you now say we should look at your cherry picked data rather than the big picture.  :shrug:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

Edited by Falcon91Wolvrn03 (10/11/17 03:03 PM)

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Re: Proof Of US Hate Crime Rise Since Trump [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #24702587 -

>very small increase in unemployment that predominantly impacts young low wage workers,

Take another look, a big impact and its over a period of years.

> they looked at data from ALL US minimum wage increases

They did not look at all analyses, I bet mine was not included. You wouldn't have posted it if it was not a leftie kook site.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755

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Re: Proof Of US Hate Crime Rise Since Trump [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #24702593 -

Hate crime is a bullshit statistic.  I thought left wingers were supposed to be smart?  They're the educated ones, right?


--------------------
I'm a Lightweight.  I like to eat like two caps at a time.

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Re: Proof Of US Hate Crime Rise Since Trump [Re: Stonehenge]
    #24702599 -

Stonehenge said:
You wouldn't have posted it if it was not a leftie kook site.


:hahthatsrich:

give us some criteria for evidence that you will accept.

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Re: Proof Of US Hate Crime Rise Since Trump [Re: Stonehenge]
    #24702627 -

Stonehenge said:
>very small increase in unemployment that predominantly impacts young low wage workers,

Take another look, a big impact and its over a period of years.


The data I looked showed a very small impact over a period of less than a year.  Can you post the data showing a "big impact" "over a period of years"???

Stonehenge said:
They did not look at all analyses, I bet mine was not included.


If you've done a peer reviewed study on this, please share it!


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Proof Of US Hate Crime Rise Since Trump [Re: ballsalsa]
    #24702633 -

ballsalsa said:
Stonehenge said:
You wouldn't have posted it if it was not a leftie kook site.


give us some criteria for evidence that you will accept.


I accept his criteria that the study shouldn't be from "a leftie kook site".  It wasn't though; he's make believing again.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Proof Of US Hate Crime Rise Since Trump [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 2
    #24702734 -

y'all are still replying to the stonebot?

it says the same thing over and over while using childlike terms such as obummer and hitlery.  it will never agree with anything you post, no matter how fairly sourced and cited, unless your SN is qman or akira or unless you're the Type of poster That Randomly capitalizes Words that aren't Someone's name or Proper Nouns.

[BBW]be a part of something bigger[/BBW]

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Re: Proof Of US Hate Crime Rise Since Trump [Re: relic] * 1
    #24702754 -

reality is made up from consensus. if the consensus is "left-leaning" in the scientific community, this "consensus" will drown out any naysayers.

this is the world we live in, plain and simple.

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Re: Proof Of US Hate Crime Rise Since Trump [Re: akira_akuma] * 1
    #24702804 -

Very true, akira

OK fal, your selective amnesia has kicked in again so you need another lesson. Here is the link once again, it goes from 1955 to 2016, a long enough period for you?

https://www.crystalbull.com/Minimum-Wage-Unemployment-study/

>The data I looked showed a very small impact over a period of less than a year.  Can you post the data showing a "big impact" "over a period of years"???

Lol!


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755

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Re: Proof Of US Hate Crime Rise Since Trump [Re: relic] * 1
    #24702815 -

relic said:
y'all are still replying to the stonebot?

it says the same thing over and over while using childlike terms such as obummer and hitlery.  it will never agree with anything you post, no matter how fairly sourced and cited, unless your SN is qman or akira or unless you're the Type of poster That Randomly capitalizes Words that aren't Someone's name or Proper Nouns.

[BBW]be a part of something bigger[/BBW]


Wise words. I know there's trolls and bots all over any forum on the internet and they are hard to distinguish since the technology has crossed that point where you can no longer be sure. It's a shitty situation for us real people to be in, you kind of have to treat them as human and give them the benefit of a doubt because sometimes they are, and even if they're not others will read their opinion and take it as fact, but in many ways it as fighting an uphill battle. What else can you do though but let the society fall into an ignorant propagandized dystopia? If you're being pulled in by the undertoe do you try to swim however futile it may seem or do you just give up and die?

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Re: Proof Of US Hate Crime Rise Since Trump [Re: krypto2000]
    #24702871 -

sure just discount him because you don't like him. he's not "going with the flow", he's "going against the grain".

must ignore him.

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Re: Proof Of US Hate Crime Rise Since Trump [Re: Stonehenge] * 2
    #24702961 -

Stonehenge said:
OK fal, your selective amnesia has kicked in again so you need another lesson. Here is the link once again, it goes from 1955 to 2016, a long enough period for you?

https://www.crystalbull.com/Minimum-Wage-Unemployment-study/


Thank you.  So let's look at each of the minimum wage increases in your chart and what happened to youth unemployment:

1956 - Up
1961 - Down
1963 - Up
1967 - Down
1968 - Down
1974 - Up
1975 - Down
1976 - Down
1978 - Down
1979 - Up
1980 - Up
1981 - Up
1990 - Up
1991 - Up
1996 - Down
1997 - Down
2007 - Up
2008 - Up
2009 - Down

So out of 19 minimum wage increases, the youth unemployment went up 10 times, and down 9 times.  You seriously think you have an argument here?  Seriously???


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Proof Of US Hate Crime Rise Since Trump [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #24703014 -

Lol, you will see what you want to see wont you? Its plain as day that the rate of unemployment went up from 55 to 77 then the min wage went up again and unemployment shot up hitting a peak in about 82. Then the min was flat and real min wage fell so unemployment went down as you might expect. Then in 06 the min went up and unemployment shot up once again.

Why is it others can see this but you can't? Maybe get a new set of glasses?


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755

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Re: Proof Of US Hate Crime Rise Since Trump [Re: Stonehenge]
    #24703090 -

Stonehenge said:
Its plain as day that the rate of unemployment went up from 55 to 77


Actually, it went up and down from 55 to 77.  The graph cherry picked a start date at the very lowest rate of unemployment to give the false impression that unemployment has gradually been going up.  If we chose an earlier (or later) start date, the graph would look relatively flat with spikes in unemployment occurring during the recessions.

Stonehenge said:
Why is it others can see this but you can't? Maybe get a new set of glasses?


The real question is why do you let conservative websites keep fooling you over and over and over again, and why do you continue to trust them?  :shrug:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Proof Of US Hate Crime Rise Since Trump [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #24703114 -

>Actually, it went up and down from 55 to 77

Yes but overall it went up. It went from less than 10% at the start up to almost 20% in '75 and you call that just going up and down? When the min went up again in 76, unemployment shot up to over 26% in '09

>The graph cherry picked a start date at the very lowest rate of unemployment to give the false impression that unemployment has gradually been going up.  If we chose an earlier (or later) start date, the graph would look relatively flat with spikes in unemployment occurring during the recessions.

Lol, now you say from 1955 to 2016 is too short a time period and they were cherry picking? Can you say that with a straight face? Maybe if you go back to the 1800's you can find a graph that agrees with you?


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755

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Re: Proof Of US Hate Crime Rise Since Trump [Re: Stonehenge] * 1
    #24703130 -

Stonehenge said:
Lol, now you say from 1955 to 2016 is too short a time period and they were cherry picking? Can you say that with a straight face? Maybe if you go back to the 1800's you can find a graph that agrees with you?


No, I'm not saying that.  I'm saying you got tricked because the chart cherry picked the lowest unemployment to start.  I said "If we chose an earlier (or later) start date, the graph would look relatively flat.

What was youth unemployment at the end of 1960, and what was it at the end of your chart?  Unemployment went DOWN during that time (see how that works?)  :smirk:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Proof Of US Hate Crime Rise Since Trump [Re: akira_akuma] * 2
    #24703146 -

akira_akuma said:
sure just discount him because you don't like him. he's not "going with the flow", he's "going against the grain".

must ignore him.


No, it's because he offers nothing but opinions, jokes, and insults to the debate. Not only does he not offer empirical evidence but he doesn't even offer reasons or theories to support his own views. You value him because he shares your opinion I assume and that's why you're defending him.

To me opposing opinions are neutral, as are those that agree with me, only new opinions have value because they provide me with new ideas. Reasons, theories, and data have value, more value if they oppose my view than support it because the more I change my views when built from sound reason or evidence the better and more valuable I am in turn.

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Re: Proof Of US Hate Crime Rise Since Trump [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #24703225 -

"If we chose an earlier (or later) start date, the graph would look relatively flat.

So you want to do the cherry picking, it all comes out now. The graph shows the last 60 years and that is a long enough time


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755

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