Another report, taken from: https://mycotopia.net/topic/4131-gummihuasca-experiment-black-currant-juice-lemon-juice/page-2#entry122071
This was conducted last night.
Species: P. cubensis (unknown strain)
Quantity: 1/3 gram (bone dry unopened 'bullet')
Last meal: burrito 4 hours before
Last trip: .5 dry gram in honey-Ginkgo mix 11 days before
Preparation: Took 1 lemon and 1/2 lime (both fresh) juiced at room temp. 1/3 gram mushroom chopped in coffee grinder until medium-fine flaky powder. Soaked ground mushroom in 3/4 OZ of juice mix for 18 minutes at room temp.
Ingestion: Held juice in mouth for two full minutes to test theory about quicker sublingual absorption. Good thing mouth wasn't full as juice stimulated salivary glands; by 2 minutes mouth was full and had to swallow. See "Problems and Concerns" below.
First Alert: (all times listed are from moment introduced to mouth, including 2 minute soak) +5min 30 sec. At this time I noticed the usual spine-tingle of impending trip, although I suspect a placebo effect.
+7min: body waves felt (subtle but distinct), pupils dilated 1mm diameter from baseline. I think this might be the actual first alert. +7 to +18min: no perceptible change from +7 +18min: body feels slightly separate from mind +23min: very body-conscious +24min: tingly feeling all over +28min: stomach gurgling +30min: intensification steadily rising +33min: smoked bowl of Jack Herer (2 bong hits) and started watching a movie
+57min: WHOA! RAPID step-up of effects to new level. Wavy visuals, excellent color rendering, introspective moments of extreme clarity and hilarity. Would NOT consider answering the phone, dealing with an emergency would be difficult. This is a THIRD of a gram?!?
+2hr 0min: Rapid step-down of effects as startling as the upswing at +57. Distinctly felt a 'let go' of peak effects, although colors are still soft-edged and vivid. This was noticed at EXACTLY 2 hours on the dot. Massive munchy attack, after which stomach felt great.
+3hr 22min: Quick energy drop, suddenly very tired like the comedown from an adrenaline rush. It is now 10:40pm and I'm finished. I could easily fall asleep if I desire. Incredible.
+4hr 6min: Completely back to baseline.
I couldn't believe I was writing a trip report like this off a THIRD of a gram. I normally dose low most of the time (the .5 to 1 gram amounts mixed with Ginkgo biloba in honey), but mine are grown on BRF, wheat grain, and cracked corn (all mixed in one substrate) and are considered by many to be quite strong. This is a functional level for me (eat and go cycling, for example). Twice a year I eat 5+ grams for the mental steam-cleaning. One impression I was left with was that the lemon mix cannot be compared to straight dry. There is a qualitative difference in the experience, probably due to the rapidity. 1/3 gram in lemon is NOT equivalent to .6 or 1 dry gram; it's more vivid than 1/3 straight dry but not the same as some other higher dry dose.
PROBLEMS and CONCERNS:
Grinding that small a quantity was difficult, had to scrape pieces off walls of grinder. Would prefer to have ground the mushroom to a finer powder, some no doubt was lost as unrecoverable dust stuck to the grinder.
After swallowing the juice held for 2 min., I brushed my teeth. OUCH!! My gumline was extremely sensitive. My teeth were whiter. Some sensitivity was still noticed following morning. Did some research, this is what I found:
"Tooth Enamel: What is it? The outside surface of our teeth, the enamel, is composed of an inorganic matrix predominately filled with calcium salts. Inside our teeth is another layer called the dentin. It is composed of approximately 28%organic matter and 72% inorganic (calcium).
Citric Acid Bath So what happens when we bathe our teeth in an acid bath, such as citric acid from lemons or carbonic acid from soda? The inorganic calcium salts are dissolved. The tooth becomes decalcified leaving a soft organic matrix that can be easily abraded away or invaded by bacteria and hence decayed. A typical individual who has habitually been sucking on lemons will have lost the enamel on the front of their teeth and perhaps even display acid erosion on the biting surfaces of their back teeth. Drinking large quantities of soda will also cause a generalized decalcification of the teeth."
And, "Instructions: I would just like to say that Vitamin C will damage teeth quicker than anything else. So brushing with Lemon juice is BAD. It makes your teeth whiter at first because it breaks down the composition of your teeth...first the stained layer, then the regular layers of enamel until you are getting them pulled. I would suggest only using lemon juice when brushing for a short time, and very sparingly!
The reason that lemon juice "works" is that it causes the teeth to lose calcium (which gives teeth some of their off-white color). Calcium is a major component of healthy teeth, and once it is lost, your teeth become very susceptible to decay. DO NOT use lemon juice for whitening. If you choose to brush with strawberries, be sure to brush your teeth IMMEDIATELY afterwards with fluoride toothpaste and also FLOSS. The sugar and acid in the strawberry will harm your teeth more than it will help if you don't immediately brush your teeth with regular toothpaste. Also be cautious of brushing too vigorously as the strawberry seeds could damage the gums (or even the teeth)."
So it appears that brushing after the lemon soak is BAD, due to softening of enamel. Better to basify mouth with tums or milk, but DON'T swallow base to prevent affecting stomach contents, THEN brush. Probably best to not soak at all.
Placebo effect: As set is so vital to the experience, a strong desire for this to work would likely manifest a placebo effect. I probably ALWAYS manifest a placebo effect because I am so looking forward to my forthcoming experience that as soon as I detect the slightest tingle I dive into it, 'reaching' with my mind into the experience with relish, anticipation, gusto, and zeal. I often report alerts well before others (but NEVER at 5 to 7 minutes on ANY dose, earliest was 11min with 5 grams). This led me to think I may be 'cancelling out' the placebo effect since it is always present and therefore it's effect is negligible within a comparison. For example, if I always 'placebo alert' at 12-20 minutes, then a 'placebo alert' at 5-7minutes might not be a placebo effect at all. My experience is based on at least 200 mushroom trips over the last 17 years (among other things).
Theoretical Musings: The acidic juice at room temp or above causes dephosphorylation of psilocybin to psilocin in vitro during soak, and also allows the psilocin to go into solutuion as a salt (this part is a given). Theory: as a salt, psilocin can be absorbed sublingually possibly accelerated by the body's active transport of Vitamin C into the blood. Once in the blood (which is alkaline) the salt likely changes again to a form that crosses the Blood-Brain Barrier. This change might take some time, accounting for the rapid step-up felt at about +60 minutes and also accounting for rapid step-down once metabolized since the entire dose was absorbed rapidly and would therefore depart rapidly (strangely enough, psilocin is excreted in urine unchanged chemically, so is it "metabolized" or simply flushed out??)
Supporting quotes: "After ingestion, psilocybine is dephosphorylated to psilocine, which then evokes psychotropic effects, and is subsequently excreted substantially unaltered in the urine." (several citations in Ott, 1996)
And "Psilocine by itself will produce identical effects and, lacking the inactive phosphoryl group of psilocybine, is about 1.4 times the potency- that is, it has equimolar potentcy." (Wolbach et.al. 1962B, Ott 1996)
The above quote is intriguing and lends support to a theory of potentiation as well as an increase in rapidity of ingestion using the lemon juice, which a large number of anecdotal reports opine. Chemically, you are boosting potency 1.4 times, add to that a placebo effect and the 2X-3X reports make sense.
Conclusions: This works, and is just the beginning of a series of 1000 tests I intend to conduct as soon as possible. It's almost a new drug experience. I will be tinkering with delivery methods (lollipops, lemon AID, DMSO, etc.) that might help with the tooth issue (a lollipop is better than a straight lemon soak I think, plus you might could keep a low-level buzz all night if you lick it slowly and you could take one anywhere!!). An impression I was left with after my experience plus reading numerous anecdotes from other sites is that there might be a logarithmic curve to effects at increasing dosages. A third of a gram made for a great time, and people reporting using this with 1,2,3, and up to 4 grams report stronger and stronger effects out of synch with the curve I'd expect if comparing straight dry doses. I HIGHLY RECOMMEND this experiment.
To the discoverer/poster of this discovery: and
TVC
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I'm going to take some truffles on Saturday. I've acquired several lemons but was not able to find black currant juice (I live in Spain, can't find it anywhere except for mixed with other fruits). Instead, I bought some extract at a health store, about 50 ml. Would mixing several drops, thirty or so, of this in water have a similar effect to drinking the juice? Any thoughts? Either way, I'll give it a try and report my results.
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- How experienced are you with psychedelics?: 300+ trips over 22 years. - Days since last trip on psychedelics: 21 days - Black Currant Juice brand: Ribena no sugar added - What reads the concentration on the label?: 35% - Juice Quantity: entire 25oz bottle - Mushrooms species: Psilocybe Cubensis - Mushrooms Quantity: 1.8 gr. dry amazonian aborts (very potent) - Did you know the potency of the mushrooms beforehand? (Y/N): No experience with this specific batch. - Hours since last meal: 20 hours - Did you put your mushrooms in a coffee grinder for a while until you got a fine powder? (Y/N): yes - Did you soak the mushrooms in lemon/lime or BC juice as in STEP 5? (Y/N): Yes, for 15 minutes in black currant juice - Description of effects compared vs. no juice: no noticeable change other than possibly longer to peak, and slightly longer trip - Description of effects compared vs. Lemon/Lime juice: No experience with just lemon/lime - Are you positively sure that there IS definitely an improvement in potency? (Y/N): No. Effect was exactly as I'd expect in strength from the mushrooms alone. - Estimated potency compared vs. no juice: no change - Estimated potency compared vs. Lemon/Lime juice: no experience - Estimated total potency: 1x - Time to "first alert" (aka, "whoa, something's definitely going to happen"): 40 mins. - Time to onset of visual disturbance: 60 mins. - Time to peak (rough estimate): 2 hours - Time to first sign of diminishing effects: 4 hours - Time to baseline (indiscernable effects): 8 hours - Further comments you might want to add to your experience: closed eye visuals were spectacular, but again, no change from what I'd expect from the mushrooms alone.
-------------------- You once ripped a man's jaw off...I seent it!
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