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First mold on colonizing BRF cakes?
    #22611760 -

I've got five 1/2-pint jars colonizing. Everyone looks happy except this one:



Am I right that it's contaminated?

If so, am I right that I ought to move it from the others?

If so, am I right that I ought to trash it carefully rather than try fruiting somewhere else? (Outside is not an option, as winter is setting in.)

Thanks!

Edited by Groovy Hobbit (12/04/15 06:44 AM)

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Re: First mold on colonizing BRF cakes? [Re: Groovy Hobbit]
    #22612281 -

looks like bacteria:thumbup: you can try n fruit it but i wouldn't be hopefull


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Re: First mold on colonizing BRF cakes? [Re: cronicr]
    #22614491 -

Is the bacteria the yellowish areas, the slimy looking areas, or both?

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Re: First mold on colonizing BRF cakes? [Re: browny]
    #22614500 -

More or less just everything, gives the myc the melted ice cream look.


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It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn
I'm tired do me a favor

I'M A MEMBER FIRST, TC WHEN NEEDED AND MOD WHEN I HAVE TO BE !!!

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Re: First mold on colonizing BRF cakes? [Re: cronicr]
    #22614521 -

Yeah. I'll give it a shot in an out of the way place. And I won't expect anything.

Thanks for the feedback!

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Re: First mold on colonizing BRF cakes? [Re: Groovy Hobbit]
    #22614540 -

I wpuld fruit it right out of the jar.


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It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn
I'm tired do me a favor

I'M A MEMBER FIRST, TC WHEN NEEDED AND MOD WHEN I HAVE TO BE !!!

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Re: First mold on colonizing BRF cakes? [Re: cronicr]
    #22614553 -

I'll give that a try.

Is that a better strategy for times like these?

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Re: First mold on colonizing BRF cakes? [Re: Groovy Hobbit]
    #22614606 -

Would you fruit it straight out of the jar, now?

And without an overnight dunk?

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Re: First mold on colonizing BRF cakes? [Re: Groovy Hobbit]
    #22614623 -

I would still dunk and yep fruit it now.


--------------------
It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn
I'm tired do me a favor

I'M A MEMBER FIRST, TC WHEN NEEDED AND MOD WHEN I HAVE TO BE !!!

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Re: First mold on colonizing BRF cakes? [Re: cronicr]
    #22614779 -

There. It's dunking in the fridge.

I flaked at least some of the bacterial infection(?) off, down to what might be clean, colonized substrate. Fingers crossed.

And thanks, Shhhhh

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Re: First mold on colonizing BRF cakes? [Re: cronicr]
    #22615885 -

What I had looks like the picture of bacterial infection in a BRF cake jar from http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/17231150.

Is what I'm looking at in my mycelium bacterial?

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Re: First mold on colonizing BRF cakes? [Re: Groovy Hobbit]
    #22627703 -

I have ANOTHER jar from the same group that's just showing trouble, perhaps of the same kind. So I'd like to say something about my setup in case it helps diagnose.

I've got a dome over this 10" x 20" garden tray, with airstones in under the hydroton. I've got it on a heating mat. So the temp is 67 - 75F and the humidity is 60% - 70%.


The jars generally look good:


But I think it was 3 days ago that I removed the first infected jar. I birthed and scraped the grey gunk off this cake (the one that started this thread). I moved it downstairs, giving it its own humidity dome. Is the white fuzz  in these marco-photos cobweb mold? Different facets are visible in each enlarged image:



The rest of the mycelium isn't fuzzy:


-----------------
Now here's another wayward cake:


Is it bacteria? Or mold?

Should I remove this jar? And try birthing it somewhere else? Should I spray it down with H2O2?

Any ideas what's going on? This discoloration wasn't visible 2 days ago! What might cause that in a mostly-colonized cake?

Edited by Groovy Hobbit (12/08/15 05:54 AM)

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Re: First mold on colonizing BRF cakes? [Re: Groovy Hobbit]
    #22628843 -

everything your doing for colonization is wrong. Just let your jars sit on a shelf. They will do fine :thumbup: don't worry about temps or humidity (or anything really) for colonization. That comes later.


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Re: First mold on colonizing BRF cakes? [Re: PsilocyBen17]
    #22632992 -

So is there no need to be concerned with humidity outside the jars during colonization - even jars like mine, with a polyfil hole in the top for gas exchange? and even if the ambient humidity is around 30 - 40%? If these are non-issues, thanks; my concern was misplaced.

As to temp., though, I've read on these forums that "80-83F is optimal growth incubation temperature" (e.g., here, attributed to RogerRabbit). In winter, without a heating mat, my colonizing temps go down to the 60s, perhaps on cold nights into the low 60s (or even upper 50s?). Is that okay? (I suspect it will significantly slow incubation.)

I appreciate this feedback very much.

-------

I've got practical and theoretical questions remaining.

Practical. It looks like yet another of my jars might have some darker material in it (possible mold) in the bottom. They look ready to birth and dunk.
  • should I dunk these all together - the good + the questionable - or separately?
  • are these growths the result of too high a humidity or heat during colonization?
  • can I fruit them all together? Or keep the moldy ones together in a second location, and the bacterial one in a third location?
  • should they be treated with H2O2?
  • should I cut or scrape contams off of cakes?


Theoretical. I wonder
  • whether the first jar infection above is bacterial,
  • whether the second jar infection above is mold.

in case there's any feedback about these questions out there.

Thanks!

Edited by Groovy Hobbit (12/09/15 07:12 AM)

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Re: First mold on colonizing BRF cakes? [Re: Groovy Hobbit]
    #22633392 -

Hey man, congrats on this grow, you are doing fine despite some minor misdirection. You are correct in saying that RH (relative humidity) is not a factor during colonization.

As for colonizing temps room temperature is great. Myc will flourish in these conditions. Some people like to build fancy incubators but they don't realize that molds like trichoderma as well as bacteria flourish at slightly than higher room temp. Warmth as well as a closed enviroment with little circulation (most people use coolers or totes as incubators) creates an optimal environment for contams. IMO it has never been worth the trouble, expense, and increased risk of contams just to shave a few days off colonizing times. I simply find the warmest spot in my house and keep them there. Just be patient :thumbup: thats the most useful skill to develop in this hobby.

I will stress however that this hobby is yours to explore and everyone likes to do things differently. If you want to use an incubator, all the power to you, just dont use a heating mat. direct heat will dry out your cakes. I imagine thats whats happened to your cake with a dark spot. Most people who build incubators use an aquarium heater submersed in a pail of water so their cakes dont dry out, but I will remind you that moisture and warmth are bacteria's best friend!

To answer your other questions:

Yes, dunk together.

Impossible to tell if the growth is a result of heat or humidity, but based on what I wrote above and your setup with the heat mat and the geolite I would say there is a high chance.

Fruit them together, toss the jar with bacteria or any other cakes that look suspect.

Dont treat with H202, myc hates that stuff.

If you spot contams before or after birthing toss the cake. Contams can be cut out if they are spotted in a monotub or a cake while they are still small, IMO this often isnt worth the trouble as you are simply spreading mold spores around.

Hope this helps you. Good luck and stay motivated! You will have :mushroom2: soon.


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Edited by PsilocyBen17 (12/09/15 09:34 AM)

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Re: First mold on colonizing BRF cakes? [Re: PsilocyBen17]
    #22635618 -

Thanks, PsilocyBen17. I'm afraid there's now only one jar not showing discoloration on the bottom. Here's the look of the cakes still in the jar:



Is it possible it's bruised mycelium? (I know: I'm grasping ;-/) But if that's a bruise, I can fruit these all together.

The earlier one - isolated - is doomed, I think: Is that white mold all over it?





If so, that can't be good to breathe.

Thanks for the help, man!

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Re: First mold on colonizing BRF cakes? [Re: Groovy Hobbit]
    #22636011 -

the one you have fruiting looks like trich to me, trich starts white before it turns green, but it could just be knotting. Wait and see. Do you have that geolite enclosed in anything?


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Re: First mold on colonizing BRF cakes? [Re: PsilocyBen17]
    #22636282 -

I have the geolite under a dome, which I lift and wave periodically during the day.

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Re: First mold on colonizing BRF cakes? [Re: Groovy Hobbit]
    #22636330 -

Cool. Post harvest pics soon dude.


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Re: First mold on colonizing BRF cakes? [Re: PsilocyBen17]
    #22636351 -

I'm encouraged that you presume there will be a harvest!

I'll dunk the cakes with blue on them with the clean one. Then, if the blue looks like bruising, I'll fruit these all together. If it looks like mold, maybe I'll try fruiting those elsewhere.

Thanks!

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Re: First mold on colonizing BRF cakes? [Re: Groovy Hobbit]
    #22636383 -

the blue is prob mold but hard to say without being there.


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Re: First mold on colonizing BRF cakes? [Re: PsilocyBen17]
    #22636395 -

I'll post a pic here either way.

Thanks again for the help, PsilocyBen17!

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Re: First mold on colonizing BRF cakes? [Re: Groovy Hobbit] * 1
    #22636419 -

anytime man. I know how hard it can be to find good info when you are new.


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Re: First mold on colonizing BRF cakes? [Re: PsilocyBen17]
    #22637466 -

I've seen images of some jars that have a white fuzz over them, in which it's NOT mold but just "harmless metabolites." Is that, by chance, what I've got here (a whole cake-shot, followed by a close-up)?




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Re: First mold on colonizing BRF cakes? [Re: Groovy Hobbit]
    #22637622 -

Nope. Thats starting to look like a contam. The start of it is a very visible line, which makes me suspect. Google "hyphae" or "knotting" thats what you want to see, but its looking less and less like that. When you start over ditch your incubator and you will have better success IMO


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Re: First mold on colonizing BRF cakes? [Re: PsilocyBen17]
    #22637703 -

Thanks for helping calibrate my eyes. They'll get it!

I keep seeing pics of people's cakes fruiting with the white fuzz (it appears that way, at least). To test whether mine is an issue with humidity, maybe I'll re-dunk, roll (which I skipped last week), put more vents in the dome, and see what happens.

I also keep seeing pics of fruiting cakes with blue on them. I'm wondering whether the ones I'm concerned about are fine. Still, I don't want to accidentally contaminate the one jar that looks good, solid, and white.

Edited by Groovy Hobbit (12/10/15 09:40 AM)

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Re: First mold on colonizing BRF cakes? [Re: Groovy Hobbit]
    #22639605 -

What you are thinking of is something we refer "fuzzy feet". Fuzzy feet happens around the base of mushrooms when they aren't receiving enough fresh air. Fuzzy feet isnt a contam and is totally safe to eat. It goes away when more fresh air is introduced. Here is an example:



To be clear though this only happens during fruiting, not during colonization.

As I said before there is a good chance that the spot on your jars is blue from bruising. If so it will go away once dunked.


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Re: First mold on colonizing BRF cakes? [Re: PsilocyBen17]
    #22639614 -

And btw did you dunk and roll yet? your cake is looking dry so be sure to mist 3 or 4 times a day after dunking :thumbup:


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Re: First mold on colonizing BRF cakes? [Re: PsilocyBen17]
    #22640374 -

It's great to hear about fuzzy feet; is there fuzzy head? ;-)

I'm redunking that dry cake now, and will roll tomorrow.

I'll definitely follow up. Thanks, man, for sharing what you know!

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Re: First mold on colonizing BRF cakes? [Re: PsilocyBen17]
    #22640585 -

Oh, did I dunk and roll? Not the four other 1/2-pint cakes; they're only just about colonized. There is a very small patch of BRF not yet reached in each of two jars. Should I wait a week before birthing, to ensure thorough colonization?

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Re: First mold on colonizing BRF cakes? [Re: Groovy Hobbit]
    #22640772 -

nah. wait a couple days.


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Re: First mold on colonizing BRF cakes? [Re: PsilocyBen17]
    #22657711 -

I birthed the 1/2 pints, and their dunk will be finished later. They're looking good, and starting to pin.

I re-dunked and rolled the questionable cake. It's downstairs, but I'm getting concerned about cross-contamination.

Do these images confirm that the growth is white mold - and that this is not a cake to try to fruit?

I don't want to be too neurotic; but should I chuck this one, and disinfect?

Up-close:


Toward the bottom of the cake:




Cake-view:



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Re: First mold on colonizing BRF cakes? [Re: Groovy Hobbit]
    #22657900 -

I'm not seeing any pins here man. Or white mold.  Just knotting. Knotting appears before pins start to form.

Cut down your tinfoil squares into circles that just fit the cakes increase the humidity reaching your cakes and therefore yield. And, as I think I said before, toss that geolite thing and build a shotgun fruiting chamber to the proper specs.


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Re: First mold on colonizing BRF cakes? [Re: PsilocyBen17]
    #22663280 -

That cake with the knotting is the one I had segregated because I thought that might be white mold. And knots are better than mold!

I have perlite on the way for a real SGFC. But I do still like the aesthetic of the dome on geolite in the tray:


There can be a lot of condensation, though:


Not that condensation means anything good or bad about RH, but my crappy hygrometer usually says it's 80%RH in there. But I should probably toss that device:


Geolite isn't ideal for humidity; but does this look okay for at least a couple days? I've got two airstones in an inch of water under the geolite - it's bubbling moisture up:


About the others: They're birthed...




... and rolled, and placed on foil circles:






I'm not sure how to spot early signs of dryness in the cakes. But their environment seems moist ...

You were right - I'll have shrooms soon!

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Re: First mold on colonizing BRF cakes? [Re: Groovy Hobbit]
    #22663643 -

PINS!!!! Alright buddy. Looking good. :thumbup:Things will speed up once you build your SGFC. 70% humidity is too low for cubes, your SGFC will give you the boost you need.

If your cakes are looking a little too dry you could mist them. When you say you "birthed" them you mean that you dunked them before rolling right?


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Re: First mold on colonizing BRF cakes? [Re: PsilocyBen17]
    #22664628 -

Yes, I dunked about 18 - 20 hours in the fridge.

I'm not going to be able to make the SGFC tomorrow. Should I use a different dome for better humidity? I have one with open/close swivel valve holes; so I can tweak my way to decent humidity/FAE levels, and fan periodically.

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Re: First mold on colonizing BRF cakes? [Re: Groovy Hobbit]
    #22665474 -

Itl be fine for a day or two. Just so you know "cold shocking" is bogus. Cubes dont need to be dunked in the fridge, they are a tropical species.

Let us know what happens man :thumbup: Keep the pics coming


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Re: First mold on colonizing BRF cakes? [Re: PsilocyBen17]
    #22671132 -

The growth is on!

Quick question: Is the "white fuzz" hyphal knotting? And definitely not a white mold?



Thanks!

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Re: First mold on colonizing BRF cakes? [Re: Groovy Hobbit]
    #22671264 -

yes thats correct.


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Re: First mold on colonizing BRF cakes? [Re: PsilocyBen17]
    #22671287 -

Well, damn! I isolated the other cake thinking its fuzz might be mold. It looks like it's been hyphal knotting all along. And that isolated cake is showing its first pin today.

Perhaps I should move it in with the others; their chamber is better.

Thanks, thanks for all the diagnostic assists!

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Re: First mold on colonizing BRF cakes? [Re: Groovy Hobbit]
    #22672785 -

No problemo


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Re: First mold on colonizing BRF cakes? [Re: PsilocyBen17]
    #22675837 -

I'm psyched!:



I'm misting/spraying mostly just on a little extra layer of vermiculate on top of the cakes, and trying to avoid too much direct spray on the shrooms themselves. Sound legit?

The shrooms seem to lean out for the light, growing in its direction. Perhaps I should put one overhead. Can I move the cakes with a spatula to space them better, and maybe rotate them around so the "back side" gets more light?

Also, this chamber seems to be working okay. I'll definitely put a larger SGFC into use for the next grow. But do you agree that this temp/humidity/FAE seems to be adequate for this one?

Explosive growth! (But it might be even better...)

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Re: First mold on colonizing BRF cakes? [Re: Groovy Hobbit]
    #22678686 -

Woot!!! Looking great man.

Shrooms usually grow long to search for air (not light) if anything I'd increase FAE and maybe mist a little more, but these guys look healthy.

Enjoy em!


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Re: First mold on colonizing BRF cakes? [Re: PsilocyBen17]
    #22712693 -

A quick update. The first flush for the 4 cakes that fruited together was about 9.4g dried. Close to expected yield? I've been misting and fanning more frequently.

Here's a shot of the second flush. I put the cakes in the FC again 6 days ago:



The middle one is that 5th cake, the late bloomer, still in its first flush.

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Re: First mold on colonizing BRF cakes? [Re: Groovy Hobbit]
    #22713684 -

Oh yea man, you'll yield will probably go up with a SGFC but that is a great yield for a first grow, congrats!


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Re: First mold on colonizing BRF cakes? [Re: PsilocyBen17]
    #22713694 -

Great to hear. I'm going to mix up some LC, and the next cakes will be in the SGFC...

I've appreciated your help so much. Thanks!

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Re: First mold on colonizing BRF cakes? [Re: Groovy Hobbit]
    #22713748 -

No problem man! great to see you succeed and be so interested in the hobby. Everyone appreciates a good rating if you find advice particularly helpful :thumbup:


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Re: First mold on colonizing BRF cakes? [Re: PsilocyBen17]
    #22713765 -

I'm either going to become a supporter for a month or meet the post-level so I can hi-5 you!

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