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Re: I'm fucked up [Re: ]
    #2242860 -

Mr Mushrooms: Another favorite quote of mine is, "If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away." Bottom line: I don't give a shit.

Mostly, I don't give a shit. Let me rephrase that. I have a one-track mind that can only focus on one thing at a time. So there's enough going on in my life, that is positive, that I don't often think about my family.

But there is stuff that has happened recently that has brought my family to my attention, and I admit I am feeling bad, even though I shouldn't. What a bunch of hypocrites.

It's easy to be judgmental when you, yourself, are a fraud.

Mr Mushrooms: I do not have enough information to process in order to give an opinion on whether or not something is wrong with you in reference to this. You need a modicum of attire, transportation, etc in order to play the game you are playing. I have had thousand dollar suits but I chose to look at them as if they were uniforms or costumes. It took the emotional sting out of buying/owning them.

Yes! It's funny when I wear court attire. And I used to have a jag until recently. You have to play the game, but it annoys me, somehow. I look at my suits as costumes. I always change the first chance I get.

In the past, when I have shared offices with other attorneys, they used to hate it when I changed into shorts, and ran around the office bare-footed. I am soooooo unprofessional!

Mr Mushrooms: Fuck California and the status seeking mongrels that live there. I'd rather be dead than have to live there.

I know. But California is my home. I've lived here 45 years. So I'll play the game and wear suits to court, but the rest of the time, I will wear what I want, and go barefoot.

Conversely, my mother was a reader and I have a voracious appetite for books and especially knowledge. She had a private library and so do I.

Sigh. My private library is in storage right now, with the rest of my life.

Mr Mushrooms: Am I like them? Not to people that know them and myself well.

No. Based on what I know of you so far, I don't think you are like them at all.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard

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Re: I'm fucked up [Re: Frog]
    #2243074 -


Maybe your family thinks your a hypocrite. Just because you dont think you contradict your own values and beliefs, it may contradict their said perception of you and  their  beliefs.

all in all i wouldnt be too concerned about it. But i would consider the implications, and what kind of relationship you have with your family, maybe it will help push your ideas and uncover some undiscovered parts of yourself.
------

Families can have a big affect on you, whether they were there or not makes a big difference.

My dad was an alcoholic if there ever were an alcoholic on the planet before. His mother had her masters in english? But she couldnt drive a car. His father was a good guy fought in world war 2, worked for the civil service afterwards and worked on the Atlas Project. But he got cancer when my dad was a teenager, and his mother made him take care of everything. He had to drive her around, while his brother (*coassholemotherfuckugh*) went to a private school and curtsied his way around having to do anything. He was the older one :wink: .

My mom has just busted her ass since my dad's "illness" which kept him from functionaling like a normal social human being. aka divorce. Then he died. So disappear the father figure. Moms had shitty boyfriends, men with no back bone, frugal or mieserly men. She talks to me about that a lot, sometimes its annoying.

brother is a good guy, 5 years older, seen part of the family i never had the oppertunity to experience. Thats why i think were so different, but besides that, we are more close because of living together with my mom. Its just been the three of us, a tight, close nit group.

My family seems to have prided themselves on the differences they had between one another. As a result they have grown cold to one another, and often speak of one another when the others are not there. This family is not the worst of sorts, but they need to get their shit together. Me, well i can remember when i was in the car with my family when i was about 5 years old on Grapevine Highway they call it. I said to my gramah "when i grow up, im gonna be a psychologist, and fix our family".

Well so much for that. Just shows you how your hopes and aspirations at a young age are trampled on by lifes events. But i guess i havent abandoned that completely. Im still on my quest to uncover those unwanted parts of the human condition, expose them to scrutiny, and excorsize them!

Sometimes i just want a plain and simple life, no worries, nothing to think about. Thats all it was for me being a kid, thinking about my family, wondering what the fuck was going on in my life. I gues a lot of times i didnt think about having fun, i thought about how to make things better. I was always a dreamer though, insane imagination. Im glad thats one thing that hasnt faded since childhood. The innocence is gone, that purity and splendor are long gone though. Maybe one day they will return, i hope so.

Im sure my mom wouldnt be too happy with the ammount of drugs ive consumed given the history of the family, but ive had to learn a lot about myself. I wont deny the fact that i could be falling to the same ills as my father did, but i have to learn these things for myself. I havent given up though on persuing what i believe in, its just things have gotten harder to distinguish. Think im going blind.


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What?

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Re: I'm fucked up [Re: Zero7a1]
    #2243093 -

Zero7a1 said:
Maybe your family thinks your a hypocrite. Just because you dont think you contradict your own values and beliefs, it may contradict their said perception of you and their beliefs.


With all due respect, Zero, uh, no shit.

Quote:
all in all i wouldnt be too concerned about it. But i would consider the implications, and what kind of relationship you have with your family, maybe it will help push your ideas and uncover some undiscovered parts of yourself.


Nope. Been there, done that. Best for me to just stay away from them, as I have been doing.
------

Quote:
Families can have a big affect on you, whether they were there or not makes a big difference.


This is true. Think about it. We spend at least the first 18 years of our lives with our families of origin. That's a lot of time, and no wonder we become so connected to them, even when they are fucked up.

Quote:
Sometimes i just want a plain and simple life, no worries, nothing to think about. Thats all it was for me being a kid, thinking about my family, wondering what the fuck was going on in my life. I gues a lot of times i didnt think about having fun, i thought about how to make things better. I was always a dreamer though, insane imagination. Im glad thats one thing that hasnt faded since childhood. The innocence is gone, that purity and splendor are long gone though. Maybe one day they will return, i hope so.


I've been re-creating what I lost by cultivating friendships and work relationships. When you remove one type of structure, it's good to build another type of structure in its place.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard

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Re: I'm fucked up [Re: Frog]
    #2243108 -

"I would like to know how people evolve the way they do, out of the same family of origin."

Well since no two brains can be recording the exact same data because they can't take up the same space, everybody's brain records different data their entire lives, ending with wildly different results


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE

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Re: I'm fucked up [Re: Strumpling]
    #2243114 -

Nice one, Strumpling! Good point! (I like this idea, so don't no one come here and refute it.)


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard

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Re: I'm fucked up [Re: Frog]
    #2243131 -

Quote:
With all due respect, Zero, uh, no shit. 



Heyyy now, i wasnt trying to make this complicated. No shittin here :wink:


I dont know your personal family life, and im not going to try to extract information that you dont want to talk about. This isnt a counselors chair or anything your sitting in, and im not a counselor. Only you can decide whats best for you. Im sure your aware of that. Just trying things out  :spliff: .

*slips finger around collar* *sweat drips down from forehead*

Ive spent a lot of time "away" from my family, doing my own thing, i witnessed with my own eyes the pain of a parted family. Maybe its my astrological sign, maybe its the gaping hole for a sense of compassion, but i think its important to stay with mine. Mr. Mushroom's family didnt sound all that great, i dont blame him for wanting to leave, nor the other friends of mine who left their parents because they were screwed up.

SOme lack of structures add and make a nice painting, we are all artists to our own lives. I like to make sculptures, and i like my guys. They are my children.


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What?

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Re: I'm fucked up [Re: Zero7a1]
    #2243153 -

I know you don't know enough about me to make a proper analysis, so I'm not going to sue you for being inaccurate.

Here's what brought this issue up for me recently...

Mommy dearest likes to tell stories about her daughters to the other daughters, and always in a negative light. She had been telling me that my oldest sister was a meth addict and major practicing alcoholic.

I finally got in touch with that sister, just to see WTF was going on. Supposedly, according to mother, in addition to being an addict and alcoholic, my sister had molested her youngest son, her grandson, gave another son up to his alcoholic father, and some other shit.

Turns out that my mother invented these stories, based on lies heard elsewhere, and my sister is devastated that my mother is spreading these lies, knowing that they are lies.

My mom was given up when she was young. She was raised by nuns, and no one liked her. I think she does these things to get attention.

My other three sisters, who are all judgmental Christians, called my sister, unbeknownst to me, and told her that they wouldn't help her, and that she needed to hit bottom. They didn't try to get to the "truth".

My mom is a dangerous person, in the sense that if you tell her something, she will twist it and make it sound bad. Then, the sisters who are judgmental, will predict your demise into hell, without even consulting you about it, first.

Yuck.

I'm glad I called my sister. She did, in fact, hit some hard times recently, because of having made a bad choice in a man, but she is not a meth addict or alcoholic. I'm going to get her back out here to where I live and turn her into my secretary.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard

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Re: I'm fucked up [Re: Frog]
    #2243329 -

Hey Frog. I don't have much to offer you but I'd just like to say a few things I guess... Perhaps for my own sake too?

Anyway. From reading most (I can't read a whole page of text) of your posts I've come to think of you as a very nice person. It's unfair that your mother slander and your other sisters the way she has and that's not your fault. I guess all I mean to say is don't let it get to you... I know it hurts when people who are close to you say untrue things and badmouth you, but it seems to me as though your mother has personal issues that she can't deal with and they come out on you.

My mother was the same way... Don't get me wrong, I love my mother, she's a great lady. But at times she could be hurtful and she was really hard to deal with... As far back as I can remember it was this way.. Eventually she snapped, looking back on it she had always had problems mentally but I was too young to understand, and she spent six months in a mental hospital. She came back and she was wonderful, but the disorders came back and one day when I was out of town she finally slipped too far and now she's gone. I'll spare you the details but it crushed me....

I loved her, for all her faults I can't blame her, she couldn't help it. I wish I could have been more tollerant. I always wonder if in part my intollerance led to what happened.

I'm not sure. I'm sorry if it doesn't help at all. But I thought it might apply.

I wish you the very best of luck. Let them say what they'll say, we both know you're a wonderful person.


--------------------
You can't hold a man down without staying down with him.
-- Booker T. Washington

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Re: I'm fucked up [Re: Zero7a1]
    #2243547 -

- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -

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Re: I'm fucked up [Re: Frog]
    #2243871 -

Quote:
But I have to admit that even though I understand that it is ?their problem?, I feel a little sad, and can?t help think that if I just tried harder to be normal, I would fit in better. *shudder*


Last night, we talked about how if we were "wired" the same as everyone else we wouldn't have these problems of fitting in. Not that it would be worth trading in our interesting lives at this point, but if we were born "average" we'd never know what we were missing.

I was just sitting here watching my co-workers & it occurred to me that they're no happier than anyone else, they just have different problems. The annoying lady across the hall from me probably spends more time worrying about conforming than we do about being different.

Everyone's working too hard and racing around to buy all these material things that they think will make them happy...but they don't. Back to my parents for a sec - they're sure as soon as they win the Lotto, their lives will be perfect. Once we actually did win $25,000 and they're still miserable people with no friends. No amount of money can ever change that, but they'll keep chasing 'til they die.

There's been a lot of talk on the forum about defining success & happiness. I think us "outcasts" are still happier overall and more successful if you use a non-materialistic standard.

The worst we have to deal with is accepting being different & then we can go on with our fucked-up non-conformist lives. I'd prefer that to being a slave to the latest fashion or having to watch Survivor so I don't feel left out at the office water-cooler.

I can't help thinking "be careful what you wish for..."


--------------------
I'm just see-through faded, super jaded, and out of my mind. - R.I.P. Layne

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Re: I'm fucked up [Re: DocPsilocybin]
    #2243964 -

I'm sorry you lost your mother. It sounds like before she died that you reconciled yourself with her behaviors and were able to have a relationship with her in spite of them.

I just think it's interesting, reading everyone's stories that were posted, how we can grow up in messed up families, and some of us will come out okay and some of us will come out fucked up. I wonder what it is that causes the difference.

Mr Mushrooms, I agree with you that I need to stay away from my family and that I am better off without them. I was just saying that to someone.

I think I said on another thread a short time back that I was the black sheep of the family. I dropped out of high school, used drugs, got pregnant. It sort of makes sense that I would be a mess due to the way my family was.

But that was 25 years ago. Since then, I've raised most of my children to adults, and they're doing well. I became an attorney. I don't lie cheat or steal. Yet I found out that they still talk about me as if I am a problem or as if I'm fucked up, just because of doing something like that trip to Fresno on Valentine's Day.

Amazing. I don't need the kind of negativity in my life.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard

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Re: I'm fucked up [Re: Frog]
    #2244250 -

> Yet I found out that they still talk about me as if I am a problem or as if I'm fucked up, just because of doing something like that trip to Fresno on Valentine's Day.

Perhaps they are down talking you to help them feel better about their own problems. (I can belittle my own problems by exagerating yours!) Don't let them ruin your love, but don't let them use you either.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: I'm fucked up [Re: Frog]
    #2244709 -

I didn't reconcile with her before she died though...  I wanted to but I couldn't...  It was just too hard.  I wish I could now.  In a way it's taught me I suppose. 

I think the difference in someone who grows in a fucked up family who turns out alright or not is how they learn to deal with the imput.  If you let the bad things get to you and you just blame yourself and wish to die then it'll be hard on you, I learned how to cope, how to look to the bright side of the worst issue, how to accept.  We don't have much really, we're just a bunch of water, a few thoughts, and a few material possessions.  Eventually we die anyway, all we have going for us is the ability to enjoy life. 

Learn to accept and look to the bright side and you'll do well for yourself.  Also talking about it to people is just about the best medicine!  It's helped me a lot.  And I'm not very social :wink:


--------------------
You can't hold a man down without staying down with him.
-- Booker T. Washington

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Re: I'm fucked up [Re: Frog]
    #2244881 -

- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -

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Re: I'm fucked up [Re: DocPsilocybin]
    #2244931 -

DocPsilocybin said:
I didn't reconcile with her before she died though...  I wanted to but I couldn't...  It was just too hard.  I wish I could now.  In a way it's taught me I suppose. 


I'm sorry that you didn't get to reconcile with her before she died.

Quote:
I think the difference in someone who grows in a fucked up family who turns out alright or not is how they learn to deal with the imput.  If you let the bad things get to you and you just blame yourself and wish to die then it'll be hard on you, I learned how to cope, how to look to the bright side of the worst issue, how to accept.  We don't have much really, we're just a bunch of water, a few thoughts, and a few material possessions.  Eventually we die anyway, all we have going for us is the ability to enjoy life. 


But I still think it's interesting, and I know I keep going back to this issue, but my sisters are still messed up because of the family in which we grew up.  Of course, they think they are okay and think that I am messed up.  And of course, it doesn't help that my mom spreads lies.

I think I resolved my issues created because of having grown up in that family.  Yes, I feel bad, or sad, from time to time because of how it all turned out, but I'm not trapped into thinking I have to live a certain way to be a good person, like they do, and I don't think that if everyone doesn't live like me, they are bad.

But this keeps coming back to my question, and I know people are trying to answer it...

Assuming I am now the most well-balanced person in the world ( :grin: ), how come my sisters are still messed up, just in a different way than I was?  My oldest sister is just now getting into counseling, finally, and I have been talking to her on a nightly basis for the last 2 weeks, while she deals with what happened in our family. 

Why are my other 3 sisters still living as if nothing happened?  What made me, at 26, get these issues straightened out instead of being like them and hiding behind religion, work and family? 

They're not "fine", I can tell you that.  What causes one, well, now two, people out of five to get counseling, and the others to not?  Does it all come down to how we each, individually, interpret events?  How we each, individually, process information?

Quote:
Learn to accept and look to the bright side and you'll do well for yourself.  Also talking about it to people is just about the best medicine!  It's helped me a lot.  And I'm not very social :wink:


I agree with this.  Because of being receptive to my sister, who is just now dealing with the pain caused to her during childhood, and listening to her talk, I am looking at old shit that I haven't looked at in a while. 

I don't mind, if it helps her to have someone to talk to, but it's brought all that shit back to the forefront, and made me think of new questions that I haven't thought of before. 

You guys are all cool for discussing this.  I see that I'm not the only one who had a bad family in which to grow up, and talking about these things can open wounds.  But I agree that it's good to talk about it rather than ignore it and have it fester inside.

I'm the type, when there's a problem, to run it up the flag pole and show it to everyone and then take a vote.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard

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Re: I'm fucked up [Re: Frog]
    #2245334 -

How old are the age gaps between you and your sisters?

What kind of events took place at their age and their life in relation to your family at those specific points in time?

Sounds to me like your mom is manipulative. Maybe your sisters that dont show that they are messed up were manipulated by your mom enough to not consider the problems that you find yourself observing.

People grow up very differenttly. Our braings are all different, body chemistry. A lot of this can do with pre disposed genetic traits that make your privy to certain attributes that your other sisters might have.

Genetics may not play a big role, but they do have an affect. After all thats one thing your looking for right?

Personality types: How do we form our personalities? Some people take a real depressed stance towards life, they dont do anything to try to forget about it.

Excited people will work constantly to not think about these things.

Why we have thosee predisposition i do not know.

Personality types tied in with age gaps, various events in their life time in relationship with your mom and your family, + all the other things that we dont know about human nature, probably tie into making the difference you seek that lay between you and your sisters in reaction to the family life in which you had.


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What?

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Re: I'm fucked up [Re: Zero7a1]
    #2245350 -

Zero7a1 said:
How old are the age gaps between you and your sisters?


We are 46, 45, 44, 42, and 38.

Quote:
What kind of events took place at their age and their life in relation to your family at those specific points in time?


Okay, I was holding back on this, but here goes: Major sexual, physical and emotional abuse, by my parents.

Quote:
Sounds to me like your mom is manipulative. Maybe your sisters that dont show that they are messed up were manipulated by your mom enough to not consider the problems that you find yourself observing.


I think you're right, zero. Good thinking.

Quote:
People grow up very differenttly. Our braings are all different, body chemistry. A lot of this can do with pre disposed genetic traits that make your privy to certain attributes that your other sisters might have.


Maybe I'm just smarter than they are, or maybe they like denial.

Quote:
Genetics may not play a big role, but they do have an affect. After all thats one thing your looking for right?


The difference between me and them, although this might not be the reason, but it's an interesting difference, is that I'm ADHD and they're not.

Quote:
Personality types: How do we form our personalities? Some people take a real depressed stance towards life, they dont do anything to try to forget about it.


Even though we were all close in age, and supposedly the same things happened to all of us, it could come down to personality types. Then, would those personality types predispose to interpreting things differently?

Quote:
Personality types tied in with age gaps, various events in their life time in relationship with your mom and your family, + all the other things that we dont know about human nature, probably tie into making the difference you seek that lay between you and your sisters in reaction to the family life in which you had.


I know the abuse was more severe for my older sister and myself. It could be that the younger ones aren't able to relate.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard

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Re: I'm fucked up [Re: Frog]
    #2245380 -

The yonger ones would be the easiest to manipulate, i dont know what it is, but i think it probably has something to do with influence. Her manipulations probably seperated you and your older sister as "bad ones", so whenever you made a mistake she could put them on her side. The age gap probably only made it easier.

You seem to be lucky enough that you have faced it and dont ignore it. I think its more depressing to know that people walk their whole lives never facing the things that happened to them, for one reason or another they cannot seem to come to grips or ever find some sort of closure on the things that happened to them. They will walk with no observance to their past. Im very sorry to hear this happened to you, i cannot imagine what it would be like.

Personality traits would account for the expression of certain behaviors within the different siblings. How they react, etc. How they react would very much relate to how they interpret and observe things. Given the nature of your moms behavior, i wouldnt be surprised if these two things alone would account for the differences.

I have read a few medical journals and the like about sexual abuse of children. While i have not been abused by my family, i would not like to think about what it would be like. I remember hearing stories from my counselor about young children being brutally sexually and physically abused by their parents.

Im very sorry to hear that happened to you. I hope for you the best in finding the answers you seek  :heart: .


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What?

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Re: I'm fucked up [Re: Zero7a1]
    #2245394 -

Quote:
The yonger ones would be the easiest to manipulate, i dont know what it is, but i think it probably has something to do with influence. Her manipulations probably seperated you and your older sister as "bad ones", so whenever you made a mistake she could put them on her side. The age gap probably only made it easier.



Bingo, in non-psychological-speak. I think that's it. My sister and I have been talking about this a lot, why this happened, and in conjunction with my mom's insecurties, I think that's what it is.

Don't be sorry about what happened to me. I actually was in counseling for 6 years, from 26 to 32. I spent my teen-age years and early 20's "acting out" the abuse, and the pain finally became too much that I absolutely had to get counseling or die.

Since then, I am a completely different person. I went from using drugs and alcohol to blot out the pain to becoming a lawyer and a good mother.

I think God allows things to happen. If I hadn't gone through what I went through in my younger life, I would not be able to have empathy with my clients.

I practice family and criminal law, among other things. People who have marital difficulties or who are in trouble with the law are usually carrying out the problems from their childhoods into their marriages or general life.

Sometimes, I get clients who are embarassed to tell me things, and I can usually tell, so I open up a little and tell them (just a little) about me, and then they open up further about what's going on for them, and they don't feel like they're talking to this attorney who sits on a pedestal.

So it was actually a good thing, in retrospect.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard

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