Auto-SummaryThe author argues that the mind and brain are interconnected, with the mind affecting the brain through practices like meditation, which in turn alters neurotransmitters, hormones, and brainwave frequencies. The author emphasizes that consciousness is a product of physical systems, not a separate entity that brings them to life. The author also clarifies that the "mind" and "consciousness" are not separate from the brain but are products of it. The author concludes that while the brain and mind are interconnected, they are not separate entities, and consciousness arises from the organization of matter.
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I don't think it's as simple as saying that minds are a product of brains and matter alone. The brain is often compared to being like a computer. A computer does not create the electricity which brings it to life. It receives electricity which it then uses to perform certain functions. All computers receive the same energy source (for the most part anyway), but the way that energy is expressed depends upon the design and the components of the computer. If if we talk in humans terms, then the mind is the product of both our hardware (the nervous system itself) and of the energy that powers it, which I would call consciousness.
I should have been clearer. When I use term 'stuff' and 'matter' I was including energy, light, gravity etc. I meant everything that is relevant when surveying physical systems.
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This is not true. It has been proven in various scientific studies that meditation has various physical effects, including altering the level of neurotransmitters and hormones in the brain/body, and changing the function of the brain. By definition, to reach a meditative state, the frequency of your brainwaves have to change from beta to alpha. Meditation is a mental process, you have to focus your mind in a particular way to reach a meditative state, and yet is has all of these effects.
Your 'disagreement' with me here is really just a semantic misunderstanding. As I said in a previous post, I am using the terms 'mind' and 'consciousness' synonymously. Yes meditation is a mental practice, by meditating you are affecting your mind, brain and body, I have no disagreement with you here. The misunderstanding is about the direction of causes. To say that the mind affects the brain, you would have to demonstrate a causal relationship in the direction of mind affecting brain. Thinking certain things, or performing certain practices (meditation for example) is an act of both brain and mind. The mind is a product of the brain; changing the brain necessitates changes to the mind also, but to conclude that changes to themind lead to changes in the brain you would require a way of measuring changes in the mind independent of the brain, which is both practically and theoretically impossible. How could you measure changes in the mind without doing so via the brain?
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If you want another example of this, just sit there and think about something happy for a while. Notice how you feel? All those extra endorphin flowing. Now sit and think about something stressful, or sad. Notice how you feel now, all of that cortisol and adrenaline being released. Now tell me that the mind has no effect on the body. Incidentally, high levels cortisol and adrenaline weaken the immune system. On the other hand, studies have been done which show that serotonin boosts the immune system through several different pathways.
Again, I think that our disagreement is superficial. You are mistaking the subjective nature of thoughts and feeling (consciousness, or the 'mind') for the physiological processes that give rise to them. Thinking happy thoughts and subsequently feeling happy feelings are both the subjective products of physical systems. Consciousness is not made of matter, or stuff, or any physically things.. rather, it is the product of such things. If you rearrange physically things into a certain structure, then consciousness simply arises. Remember, we are made of the same stuff as every other physical thing (stars, dirt, gasses etc.) The reason we are conscious, and dirt isn't, is simply because we have been arranged in such a way that produces consciousness, not the other way around. Consciousness can't jump into a physical system and 'bring it to life,' there is no logical defense of a ghost in the machine.
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The whole thing that sets humans apart from other animals is that we have conscious awareness and control of our minds! Whilst we might be driven by the subconscious a lot of the time, we also have a great deal of control.
This is our first real disagreement. We are just animals with a little bit more brain power than other animals, there is nothing special about our kind. We just do things a bit better than other animals. Chimpanzees, whales, dogs, elephants etc. like us, are conscious, there is no additional thing that we have that other animals do not, other than more brain power and opposable thumbs. You keep using phrases like "we have control of our minds." This is a deep misunderstanding: We are our minds! We are not separate entities that jump into our minds and play around with things, then leave to observe what happens. The 'mind,' 'consciousness,' the 'self' are all one and the same. These things are products of physical systems. Damage the physical systems, and our minds are damaged with them.
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If you think of something happy right now, it's not due to any change in your brain, it's because YOU decided to do that.
This is the pinnacle of ignorance of neuroscience and neurophysiology. What is this "YOU" that you are referring to? Clearly it is not consciousness you are talking about, clearly it is not the brain you are talking about; a soul perhaps? How can something that is not physical affect what is physical?
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I for one think this study is extremely interesting 
I do too, I really love this area, what could be more interesting than studying the very thing that is doing the studying?
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Maybe a few hundred years ago electricity could be observed in a rudimentary way. It certainly wasn't understood or quantified though. The same thing can be said for consciousness at the moment. We can observe it. We don't truly understand what it is and where it comes from though.
You're right, we don't really understand what consciousness is, it really is a deep mystery. We can observe consciousness, however, we can only observe our own consciousness, there is no way of directly observing someone else's consciousness, only their brain. Also, although we do not understand exactly how consciousness comes into being, it's a fairly logical conclusion that something about the organisation of matter causes consciousness to arise, the conception of a zygote and the growth and development of a fetus and the birth of a child are all the processes of the arrangement of matter, and something about this process causes the existence of consciousness.
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johnm214M said:
This isn't true and is a common problem of the popular view of science: that it requires fancy gadgetry. We could observe electricity easily a thousand years ago: look at lightening. Induce static charges and watch your hair repell, et cet.
Further, we can detect consciousness at the moment, and nurses do so every day as part of routine assesments. They ask the patient where they are, who they are, and what the day is. An unconcious person doesn't do well with these questions, someone with diminished consciousness may know who they are, but not the others, et cet.
Spot on, science doesn't require large groups of people in white lab coats under the banner 'official science,' rather it is just using your noggin and thinking properly about things.
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