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Flawed Experiment
    #2119461 -

As soon as we have analyzed the results of these
measures and come to a final conclusion, we will
make a public announcement.

1. what ARE the measures?

aside from closing OTD and going bancrazy?

2. how do you measure the results of these measures?

what are the metrics?

how many fewer posts there are on the site?
how many more people get banned?
the percentage increase of posts in Romper Room?

what constitutes a success and what constitutes a
failures?

how does the community *win*?

what has to happen for OTD to return?

this all seems like a foregone conclusion. a complete
shutdown of OTD under the guise of political experiment.

you killed kenny, you bastards!


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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: afoaf]
    #2119469 -

1. How people react to the changes
2. Depends how people react to the changes.

These are just my take.


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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: Paid]
    #2119526 -

great, so basically the experiment and
the outcome of the experiment are not
judged objectively, they are judged
subjectively based on criteria that are
not even defined?

I forgot how easy it was to get things done
using tyranny.



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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: afoaf]
    #2119540 -

It seems to me that either:

A) The mods don't want the users to know what's being done.

or

B) The mods didn't even know what they're doing before they started doing it.

Either option does not sound good.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: afoaf]
    #2119555 -

It ain't like that at all. By measures, I am referring to the temporary closure of OTD and the deliberate encouragement for the staff to become more proactive in dealing with policy infractions. As far as the metrics are concerned, there are a number of contributing factors. For example, what you've written right here and what countless other community members have expressed over this matter.

Additionally and carrying greater weight are the staff discussions. I know people think that it's absurd we'd make these decisions behind closed doors, but if we didn't - no agreement could ever be made due to the relentless lack of compromise that some users exhibit. We are taking in events as they occur. As Paid said, the future of the OTD forum rests in large part upon the current and future actions of OTD regulars in response to a temporary closure of the forum. If people can maintain tact and respect (as you have in this thread), then we will be much more open to reinstating the forum with little to no changes than if many users behave recklessly and disrupt the boards as a result of the measures taken.

There are many on-going discussions of this project, both at the user, moderator, and administrative level. No decisions have been made, nor was this project implemented with the goal of closing down OTD. Our goal is merely to put the community in the midst of a test. Some will pass, some won't. I did make it clear that we are doing some house cleaning, so none of this should come as too big of a surprise.


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┼ ··∙   long live the shroomery  ∙·· ┼
...╬π╥ ╥π╬...

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: geokills]
    #2119686 -

"No decisions have been made, nor was this project implemented with the goal of closing down OTD."

Despite this, a decision has obviously been made to close down OTD (temporarily). If no decisions have been made, why are changes being made?

What changes are even being made?

Could you at least explain what you mean by "house cleaning"? Or failing that, explain to us why you can't give us an explanation?

I'm dying for even the slightest clue as to what's going on.

At this point all we've been told is that OTD is gone as part of an experiment and that changes are being made.

Why can't we know what the changes are?


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: Phluck]
    #2119718 -

I think what has been happening is a bit extreme. I thought you guys just added Marauderator to work with OTD. Why was that idea canned so fast?


--------------------
Hi how's it going, wanna kick Heroin basically painlessly on your own, in your own house, without any government "help" ,or the "help" of a crazy condescending, judgmental medical doctor? Read this:

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=42&Number=7342616&page=0&fpart=all


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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: Phluck]
    #2119894 -

Phluck, once again you are picking my words apart way too much and quite possibly could be willfully ignoring the overall message I am trying to convey. Yes, a decision was made to do something temporary. This is not a final decision and no final decision will be reached until we have completed our temporary experiment. We are observing and taking notes, so if you can hold onto your butt for a couple weeks - we will have some definite results to announce. As stated, there may be permanent changes made, and there may not be. In the midst of debate, how am I supposed to tell you what changes we may decide on in the future? I will try anyway
  • Possible reinstatement of the OTD forum without any change in guidelines
  • Possible permanent closure of the OTD forum
  • Possible reinstatement with modification of the OTD forum policy
  • Possible archiving of the OTD forum, with a clean slate replacement that will have more guidelines
  • Possible archiving of the OTD forum, with no replacement of the forum
  • Possible reinstatement of the OTD forum with post expiration in effect
  • ...
As I hope you can now see, there are nearly unlimited possibilities for change in the very near future. There is also a possibility of no permanent change. I suggest you just relax and focus your energy on encouraging a positive vibe on this website. That certainly is more constructive than making me take the time to answer your question multiple times which in turn takes me away from overseeing that this experiment runs smoothly and people do not feel like they are being given the short end of the stick. Bottom line is, many minds have agreed that something isn't right here, and this experiment should help accelerate debate on the matter and encourage proactive behavior to better the website.



Lightningfractal said:
I thought you guys just added Marauderator to work with OTD. Why was that idea canned so fast?

This idea wasn't meant to be a solve-all solution. Marauderator was created by and for our OTD mods such that they could deal with the preshow drama that was created as a result of bad timing and widespread rumour. In this way, they could enforce policy and prepare people to think about what is really important at The Shroomery without having to attract the negative attention of many emotionally charged and rightfully upset members. It is unfortunate that rumours were spread before we could implement this test, and Marauderator was a reactive measure to those rumours made in effort to protect our staff members who may not necessarily agree with actions taken.


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┼ ··∙   long live the shroomery  ∙·· ┼
...╬π╥ ╥π╬...

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: geokills]
    #2119897 -

I am referring to the temporary closure of OTD and the deliberate
encouragement for the staff to become more proactive in dealing with
policy infractions.

these two measures do not need to be mutually inclusive.

deliberate encouragement for the staff to enforce the perfectly
reasonable existing policies in OTD would have been a great place
to start.

historically this starts off strong and eventually wanes which leads
to another cycle of 'tougher enforcement'. let's stay consistent and
forego the feast and famine of policy enforcement in OTD.

Our goal is merely to put the community in the midst of a test.
Some will pass, some won't.

I think that's rather contrived and unfair. You've basically yanked
the carpet out from underneath people who's entire shroomery
existence is centered upon OTD. And, depending on their reactions
to this, you will decide whether they stay or go and, further, whether
or not their reaction reflects favorably upon the forum.

To me, this seems cruel, unusual and downright wierd.

I have a couple questions:

1. was the site financially self-sufficient before the closure?

2. was OTD seen as a detractor from gaining more ad revenue?

3. what is the ultimate goal of this experiment?


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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: afoaf]
    #2119953 -

This site is not a democratic government. It is owned by a few people who have to pay for server space and spend there own free time managing it. This makes it a buisness and a buisness can make whatever changes it feels nessacary to better its performance. Now I am an impartial person on this otd subject, didnt hate it but didnt love it. But from what i have seen the admins here have been very open about their intentions about this whole project. OTD is one out of 26 forums here at shroomery.org , if you are a memeber and cant post anything useful in any of these forums then maybe you should find another message board. otd is an extra forum, bottom line. And i see all these members acting like babies that got your candy tooken away. Grow up, otd will most likely be back if the majority of its posters can compose themselves for 2-3 weeks and not act like little kids. In the mean time there is plenty of other places to discuss various topics.


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When chemistry is outlawed.. Only outlaws have chemistry:rainbowdrink:

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: Infrared]
    #2120051 -

hey, thanks for answering my questions!

you've been a real big help!

but since your reading comprehension seems
to be lacking,.

I never said it was a democracy.

There has been zero openness about the intentions of
the OTD project.

You don't know me or my posting habits.

Did you know that OTD existed before most of the other
25 forums on the board?

keep towing the line, you're doing great!


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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: afoaf]
    #2120167 -

There's just one thing, that I thought I might bring up.
A lot of people have been saying, why not just enforce the policy, instead of closing the forum.
Well, as I'm sure you can attest, any attempt at enforcing policy was met with MULTITUDES of threads saying why did you lock my post and the mods are a bunch of nazis.. etc, etc, ad naseum.
I didn't think about it before too much, but now, I think that this will help them realize. Puts things into perspective you know.
A lot in OTD wanted no kind of enforcement of policy. The slightest attempt at cleaning things up just a little was met with massive resistance and immature behaviour.

So what's better.. OTD gone forever, or abide by a few very simple rules?
That's basically what it comes down to.


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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: afoaf]
    #2120169 -

afoaf said:
There has been zero openness about the intentions of
the OTD project

It was our intention for this project to get off the ground floor without the knowledge of the membership at large. It was our intention to yank the rug out from under users since previous attempts at beefing up enforcement in OTD had, as you stated, "start[ed] off strong and eventually wane[ed] which leads to another cycle of 'tougher enforcement'." We are attempting to find a way to break this cycle. Perhaps we won't find it, but it is worth a try. Without taking a risk one will never know.

> 1. was the site financially self-sufficient before the closure?
Yes

> 2. was OTD seen as a detractor from gaining more ad revenue?
Some see it this way yes. If left to take the path it has been on, it feasibly could have (and has) detered vendors from sponsoring our community because of the negative light it sheds on the serious aspects of this website.

> 3. what is the ultimate goal of this experiment?
To take a risk and see if it pays off.


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┼ ··∙   long live the shroomery  ∙·· ┼
...╬π╥ ╥π╬...

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: afoaf]
    #2120183 -

I remember when my favorite forum was taken offline in the name of "experiment" (Other-Drugs).

At first I was pissed off, too, I'll admit  :mad:

The forum came back, though it was changed. I realized my anger had been silly. As it turns out I gained from the situation. I found a few forums I had been neglecting in my time here. :smirk:

This isn't a one-forum BB, is what I learned :smile: 


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: trendal]
    #2120364 -

Absolutely, I've enjoyed your visits to PAL.

same with monamine.

geo, thanks for responding to my questions.

I really appreciate that.

but that doesn't change the fact that you stole
MY FUCKING BUBBLER!!!! how do you expect me
to ever trust you again!?!?!?!?111 :wink:

Shroomism, much love, but for the record, I never
once posted a 'why did you lock my shit' thread, nor
have I ever complained about thread lockings. If I
had my drothers lots more would have been locked
and any threads questioning the lock would have
been locked...ad nauseum.

but that's neither here nor there...

I guess my secondary point in mentioning the 'feast
and famine' of OTD enforcement was meant to illustrate
that OTD has operated peacefully during phases of
strong enforcement, even excelled. But this moderation
is not maintained for extended periods of times which
allows for some slippage in the forum.

Should resourced be drained trying to throw more man-power
at the problem?

No. It detracts from the site's mission and doesn't really address
the core problem.

OTD is a shithole, but that's only because it's been allowed to
become one.

I believe it can become great again.
 


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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: afoaf]
    #2120448 -

As do I


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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: Paid]
    #2120560 -

Quote:
This site is not a democratic government. It is owned by a few people who have to pay for server space and spend there own free time managing it.



Translation: The shroomery is a business, not a community.

Quote:
if you are a memeber and cant post anything useful in any of these forums then maybe you should find another message board.
Quote:
Yes, and they should take their money with them. Apparently if you can take it then it was yours, right?


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https://www.gofundme.com/f/support-for-renee-goods-wife-and-son

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: Shroomism]
    #2120567 -

> So what's better.. OTD gone forever, or abide by a few very simple rules?

I rarely post in OTD, but I like the people there and I think it's part of the Shroomery. Why do we need to choose between gone forever or simple rules? What's wrong with some ironic flames and nice pr0n? I just don't get it.... What's the whole point?

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: Annom]
    #2120614 -

Ironic flames and nice prOn is not the issue.
It is members who could not restrain themselves from constantly barraging OTD with flames against other members and turning OTD into a cesspool of negativity, and when any attempt is made to slow down their spreading of hatred, they react in a selfish manner by flooding the forum with crap and creating a disturbance in the zen of the shroomery.
I like the people there and think it is a part of the shroomery too. But that does not mean we can allow a few selfish members to hijack the board in a self-righteous manner.


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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: Shroomism]
    #2120677 -

ok, thanks! That's all I wanted to know....

Edit: I never noticed the cesspool of negativity, but that's just me.....

Edited by Annom (11/18/03 05:43 PM)

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: Annom]
    #2120721 -

Well I like to think we controlled it to an extent, by locking and dumping the crap threads as soon as they happened, but it became overwhelming at times.


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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2121011 -

>Translation: The shroomery is a business, not a community.


More like nonprofit organization. It would be a business if we charged access, but we don't. Even nonprofit organizations have to have some source of income to keep things running, everyone knows that.

I think a lot of people take American rights for granted, thing's aren't they way that you and I are used to all over the world.
No where in the definition of community do I see the word democratic. All internet sites are dictatorships, that's just how it works. There is no bill of rights for the internet. Whatever form of "government" the owners of the site chose is fair game, and they can change their minds whenever they want.

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: Shroomism]
    #2121018 -

It is members who could not restrain themselves from
constantly barraging OTD with flames against other members
and turning OTD into a cesspool of negativity, and when
any attempt is made to slow down their spreading of hatred,
they react in a selfish manner by flooding the forum with crap
and creating a disturbance in the zen of the shroomery

who?
what?
when?
where?
why?

maybe I don't come here often enough, but who or what
specifically was such a disturbance in the forum as to warrant
these drastic measures?

admittedly the content has been lacking lately and inanity
reigning supreme but does that alone beckon such response?


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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: Gumby]
    #2121021 -

Why would someone want to be part of a community where they were disrespected by some people who had seized controll of the neighborhood?


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https://www.gofundme.com/f/support-for-renee-goods-wife-and-son

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2121023 -

Baby_Hitler said:
Yes, and they should  take their money with them. Apparently if you can take it then it was yours, right? 

Not entirely sure what you're getting at here BH, but sure people can up and leave and take their money with them.  I'm not about to track down all the troublemakers and shank them for their wallets :wink:




..and to afoaf, damnit it wasn't intentional I swear -
it was only an experiment to see if you'd notice :grin:

Really though, I tried to make it up over the weekend but as things would have it - I was too wasted and ended up driving brian up to the south bay on Monday morning.  Fear not - I will compensate you for your glass... at cost  :tongue2:
 


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┼ ··∙   long live the shroomery  ∙·· ┼
...╬π╥ ╥π╬...

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: Gumby]
    #2121032 -

big ups to my dawgs in the dirty south.

good to see you, GD.

in an effort to put this 'democracy' fallacy to rest...

1. I never *invoked* the democracy argument.

2. I don't believe the democracy argument.

The admins have the final say.

(Though, moderator elections do seem intriguing)


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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: geokills]
    #2121065 -

It's just an attempt at helping people comprehend their own worth, and value of themselves and other members of this website. Members deserve all the representation/controll that they can manage to get.

That's not democracy, that's life.

In a power struggle like this, any amount of control you can seize must have been rightfully yours to take, or you would not have been able to take it.


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https://www.gofundme.com/f/support-for-renee-goods-wife-and-son

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: geokills]
    #2121085 -

geokills said:
[some of you] you are picking my words apart way too much and quite possibly could be willfully ignoring the overall message I am trying to convey.


Hmm, food for thought...


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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: geokills]
    #2121094 -

- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: ]
    #2121413 -

I'm here for the OTD thank God it led me to the mushrooms! :razz:


--------------------
Hi how's it going, wanna kick Heroin basically painlessly on your own, in your own house, without any government "help" ,or the "help" of a crazy condescending, judgmental medical doctor? Read this:

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=42&Number=7342616&page=0&fpart=all


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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: Lightningfractal]
    #2121504 -

- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: ]
    #2121565 -

I was just being good-heartedly sarcastic. My point being that regardless of how someone got here, the OTD was a cool bonus to the overall experience. It's all too easy to claim that the focus is mushrooms so OTD don't matter that much.

But this is a community. Besides OTD we also have a philosophy, Spirituality, Political, other drugs, a bar and grill(pub), gardening, and even a recepie forum, to name a few. What do these forums have to do with mushrooms? Why is this point even being included in discussing this, if these other forums are not under the microscope as well?

My view is that while I am here for mushrooms,(see my copes I found in the hunting forum?), I am here for the community spirit as well.

Um, if that's ok of course.

I get the idea, the Pub for off topic discussion that is highly respectful, and the OTD for those who prefer a basically uncensored environment to post off topic in. Hey, great plan. So what was wrong with that?

I have read all the arguments for and against. I personally believe the OTD has been recommended to friends time and time again, bringing in new members who then venture to the cultivation and hunting forums to learn about mushrooms. It's a brave and highly popular part of the shroomery.

The fact that it eats up 40% of the shroomery's resources attests to it's brilliance. Add more bandwidth if nescessary and keep the site the success it has been. Eliminating OTD, or changing it beyond recognition will hurt the site. This is the "risk" that that negro in Geo's sig is referring to, and one that i personally hope does not happen.

Nice talking to ya father shrooms.


--------------------
Hi how's it going, wanna kick Heroin basically painlessly on your own, in your own house, without any government "help" ,or the "help" of a crazy condescending, judgmental medical doctor? Read this:

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=42&Number=7342616&page=0&fpart=all


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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: Lightningfractal]
    #2121652 -

I say kill OTD. There are plenty of other places to chat (i.e. TDUB)

Quote:
Deepblue42 said:OTD is one out of 26 forums here at shroomery.org , if you are a memeber and cant post anything useful in any of these forums then maybe you should find another message board. otd is an extra forum, bottom line. And i see all these members acting like babies that got your candy tooken away. Grow up, otd will most likely be back if the majority of its posters can compose themselves for 2-3 weeks and not act like little kids. In the mean time there is plenty of other places to discuss various topics.



Agreed.


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As we know, there are known knowns. There are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns. That is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns, the ones we don't know we don't know.

-Donald Rumsfeld 2/2/02 Pentagon

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: Lightningfractal]
    #2121654 -

- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: Xochitl]
    #2121658 -

BAN BAN BAN BAN BAN BAN BAN  :lol:


--------------------
Hi how's it going, wanna kick Heroin basically painlessly on your own, in your own house, without any government "help" ,or the "help" of a crazy condescending, judgmental medical doctor? Read this:

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=42&Number=7342616&page=0&fpart=all


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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: ]
    #2121660 -

good points Mr Mushrooms :thumbup: 


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As we know, there are known knowns. There are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns. That is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns, the ones we don't know we don't know.

-Donald Rumsfeld 2/2/02 Pentagon

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: Xochitl]
    #2121663 -

- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: Xochitl]
    #2121682 -

I appreciate what you are saying Mr Mushrooms. I just hope that there will be an OTD without a feeling of big brother watching, and yet still will accomplish the goals of getting rid of these things you speak of.

edit: To Mr Mushrooms


--------------------
Hi how's it going, wanna kick Heroin basically painlessly on your own, in your own house, without any government "help" ,or the "help" of a crazy condescending, judgmental medical doctor? Read this:

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=42&Number=7342616&page=0&fpart=all


Edited by Lightningfractal (11/19/03 02:02 AM)

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: Lightningfractal]
    #2121690 -

there is such a place: http://thedarkunderbelly.com/phpbb/
go there.



--------------------
As we know, there are known knowns. There are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns. That is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns, the ones we don't know we don't know.

-Donald Rumsfeld 2/2/02 Pentagon

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: Lightningfractal]
    #2121706 -

Quote:
I appreciate what you are saying


I don't...

I found that whole "kill OTD" comment to reek of the very same negativity that OTD was apparently being put on trial for. There are many other much more tactful ways that such an opinion could be expressed...and I find Xochitl's lack of tact to not only be in bad taste, but also disrespectful of those of us that held OTD in higher regards. If there truely is going to be any real changes made, then it has to begin with everyone - and not just the people that seem to be at the root of the problems (e.g. all of us so called immature negativity-spewing OTD regulars that caused all the problems in the first place)


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:craven:  Ravings of a Madman  :craven:

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: Xochitl]
    #2121725 -

OTD is not an extra forum, in the beginning, there were maybe 5 forums, and OTD was one of them. It was the most popular even then. There were only a handful of us posting then, and it had a wild and aggressive spirit to it even then.

Those with complaints about OTD aren't even the people who enjoy the place.

"Those OTD kids are a bunch of childish jerks. Let's prove how much more mature we are by taking their favourite place away from them, and then telling them the more they try to voice their opinion and let the administration know how they feel, the less likely they are to get it back."

Is the Shroomery honestly in financial trouble? I had heard that the advertising profits were able to cover the costs. Perhaps I was misinformed.



--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: Muppet]
    #2121757 -

My post was not a flame as it was not directed toward any individual. Nor was it particularly negative man. Perhaps you mistook what was essentially a concise statement for something else. My post possessed no qualities that have lead to the closure of OTD (namely flames, post-whoring, off-topic chatting). There are no rules against concise statements of opinion.


--------------------
As we know, there are known knowns. There are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns. That is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns, the ones we don't know we don't know.

-Donald Rumsfeld 2/2/02 Pentagon

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: Xochitl]
    #2121758 -

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I appreciate what you are saying


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I don't...

I found that whole "kill OTD" comment to reek of the very same negativity that OTD was apparently being put on trial for. There are many other much more tactful ways that such an opinion could be expressed...and I find Xochitl's lack of tact to not only be in bad taste, but also disrespectful of those of us that held OTD in higher regards. If there truely is going to be any real changes made, then it has to begin with everyone - and not just the people that seem to be at the root of the problems (e.g. all of us so called immature negativity-spewing OTD regulars that caused all the problems in the first place)





I was talking to Mr Mushrooms, damn that quick reply.

Quote:
there is such a place: http://thedarkunderbelly.com/phpbb/
go there.



I am there but I also am here. Are you saying I should only post there? That's a pretty bad attitude if you ask me. After all, I am not even one of the ones who ever posted anything in OTD that is considered by some to be in bad taste. I don't have to be shepherded off to another website, I am a Shroomery member, and quite proud of it thank you very much for your concern though.


--------------------
Hi how's it going, wanna kick Heroin basically painlessly on your own, in your own house, without any government "help" ,or the "help" of a crazy condescending, judgmental medical doctor? Read this:

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=42&Number=7342616&page=0&fpart=all


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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: Lightningfractal]
    #2121768 -

you dont have to only post there. just only post your flaming-hello.jpg-racist-negative-jibberjabber-bickering there. did i dwell on that too much, forgive. otherwise post as much as you please in any of the forums here.


--------------------
When chemistry is outlawed.. Only outlaws have chemistry:rainbowdrink:

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: Lightningfractal]
    #2121780 -

Quote:
Are you saying I should only post there?



No, I only suggested posting there (if you want the type of discussion that OTD once offered). Please do not put words in my mouth. I am glad you have found a home at the Shroomery and I hope you continue to post here :thumbup:


--------------------
As we know, there are known knowns. There are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns. That is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns, the ones we don't know we don't know.

-Donald Rumsfeld 2/2/02 Pentagon

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: Infrared]
    #2121796 -

Most of the people who are in power now seem to be pretty out of touch with the spirit of the original Shroomery.

A long, long time ago, it used to be the Shroomery vs. alt.drugs.mushrooms.

The Shroomery was the fun loving, wacky, adventurous crowd, and a.d.m was the uptight, easily offended, more-enlightened-than-thou crowd. Eventually newsgroups became obsolete, and the uptight folks all moved into the Shroomery.

The two sides seemed to live together in harmony until recently. The uptight people ended up being the ones in power. They decided it was time to get rid of the wild and rowdy kids once and for all.

So here we are.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: Phluck]
    #2121805 -

Quote:
OTD is not an extra forum, in the beginning, there were maybe 5 forums, and OTD was one of them. It was the most popular even then. There were only a handful of us posting then, and it had a wild and aggressive spirit to it even then.



Yes, I remember - I have been freqenting the Shroomery since 1998. However, we are talking about today. If you remember, extra forums were created to help spread out the discussion, rendering the OTD we are all familiar with.

Quote:
"Those OTD kids are a bunch of childish jerks. Let's prove how much more mature we are by taking their favourite place away from them, and then telling them the more they try to voice their opinion and let the administration know how they feel, the less likely they are to get it back."



Who said that? Not me, not deepblue, not mr mushrooms.


--------------------
As we know, there are known knowns. There are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns. That is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns, the ones we don't know we don't know.

-Donald Rumsfeld 2/2/02 Pentagon

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: Xochitl]
    #2121808 -

That was meant to be satirical.

I was pointing out the hypocrisy of the "if the OTD kids behave themselves they can get it back" statement someone made.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: Infrared]
    #2121816 -

Quote:
just only post your flaming-hello.jpg-racist-negative-jibberjabber-bickering there



What? I don't support those things per se. I support a forum where you can post how you feel like posting without feeling like big brother is watching with his finger on the ban button. OTD seemed to come closer to that than any other forums I have seen. I don't post any of that type of stuff myself. But I like to enjoy freedom in posting. Some people may like to celebrate freedom in posting by posting things like that, but not I. Nevertheless, do not remove the freedom just because there exists morons in the world. mmkay?


--------------------
Hi how's it going, wanna kick Heroin basically painlessly on your own, in your own house, without any government "help" ,or the "help" of a crazy condescending, judgmental medical doctor? Read this:

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=42&Number=7342616&page=0&fpart=all


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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: Phluck]
    #2121817 -

exactly where are we?? i dont feel geo or papaver is uptight in the least bit. my personal oppinion is that there were some annoying kids in otd. i can tell when i am talking to some 14 yr old knowitall, and i have met a few in otd. there are a lot of members of otd that are perfectly fine, you seem to be one of them. this isnt the end of the world, otd will be back in some way,shape, or form soon enough.


--------------------
When chemistry is outlawed.. Only outlaws have chemistry:rainbowdrink:

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: Lightningfractal]
    #2121821 -

I'm sorry you feel that the "big brother" is keeping you down. dont know what to tell you, but i never had a problem speaking my mind as long as i didnt do it in an obscene obnoxious way. and i was making a genral statement about what goes on in otd. i wasnt saying it was all you that posts such stuff


--------------------
When chemistry is outlawed.. Only outlaws have chemistry:rainbowdrink:

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: Lightningfractal]
    #2121823 -

Freedom of speech is wonderful and essential in the real world, but this is a privately-owned website whose owners are footing the bill for such continuous posting. Emotional attachment aside, this is not a public space.


--------------------
As we know, there are known knowns. There are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns. That is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns, the ones we don't know we don't know.

-Donald Rumsfeld 2/2/02 Pentagon

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: Infrared]
    #2121834 -

"my personal oppinion is that there were some annoying kids in otd. i can tell when i am talking to some 14 yr old knowitall, and i have met a few in otd."

Don't talk to them then. There's even an "Ignore User" feature. I don't see how not liking some of the users is justification for ruining their playspace.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: Xochitl]
    #2121838 -

"Freedom of speech is wonderful and essential in the real world, but this is a privately-owned website whose owners are footing the bill for such continuous posting. Emotional attachment aside, this is not a public space. "

I'm sure you wouldn't be saying that if they were considering turning the Shroomery into a beastiality site.

Obviously OTD was not your favorite forum. Nobody was forcing you to post there, or read the threads.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: Infrared]
    #2121849 -

There are specific rules in most forums. I like having a forum where I can speak my mind, get loose, say "fuck you" (with love) to a mod or an admin if I feel the situation requires it etc. etc. Just like if in real life you might drink my last beer and I might say "fuck you dude you're runnin' for beer now FoO! Shit like that flies at the OTD, just like in real life.

Most forums have rules that make it impossible to communicate as you normally would. That's ok, but if one were to just speak their mind any kind of way in those forums they would be eventually banned.
We NEED one good forum where we can be ourselves.

I didn't mean to compare the mods to big brother, I have never had a big problem with any of the mods here. I just feel that they start to seem like big brother when I can't have a place to post freely. And post freely HERE, the place I love.....

The Shroomery

That is all.


--------------------
Hi how's it going, wanna kick Heroin basically painlessly on your own, in your own house, without any government "help" ,or the "help" of a crazy condescending, judgmental medical doctor? Read this:

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=42&Number=7342616&page=0&fpart=all


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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: Phluck]
    #2121852 -

haha, i didnt ruin their playspace. like i have mentioned before, i had absolutely zero to do with this project. i posted in otd from time to time, but i didnt campaigned against it. but after talking to the admins about the plan, i stand behind them. besides watching everyone throw a fit the other day didnt make me want to help them any. all i can say is change is good, trust me or not youll find out soon enough


--------------------
When chemistry is outlawed.. Only outlaws have chemistry:rainbowdrink:

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: Lightningfractal]
    #2121869 -

Lightningfractal said:
I like having a forum where I can speak my mind, get loose, say "fuck you"


We're working on it... :smirk:

I think we have a workable solution, and you will probably stumble across it within 48 hours or less... :wink:


--------------------

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: Phluck]
    #2121872 -

Quote:
I'm sure you wouldn't be saying that if they were considering turning the Shroomery into a beastiality site.


Yes I would. Please do not make assumptions.

Quote:
Obviously OTD was not your favorite forum. Nobody was forcing you to post there, or read the threads.


Never said there was any sort of coercion involved. I stand by the administration because they are the ones paying the bills and doing plenty of hardwork behind the scenes, and have every right as property owners to make changes to the website as they see fit. If they were to make changes I would disagree with, I would simply move onto the next psychedelic culture messageboard.


--------------------
As we know, there are known knowns. There are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns. That is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns, the ones we don't know we don't know.

-Donald Rumsfeld 2/2/02 Pentagon

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: Papaver]
    #2122503 -

Excellent Papaver! Thanks!


--------------------
Hi how's it going, wanna kick Heroin basically painlessly on your own, in your own house, without any government "help" ,or the "help" of a crazy condescending, judgmental medical doctor? Read this:

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=42&Number=7342616&page=0&fpart=all


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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: Xochitl]
    #2122556 -

It's not like I don't think that the admins have the right to do what they want. I think I even stated that in the first post I ever made on this topic.

I just think that since they were chosen by the founders of the Shroomery to carry the torch years after the Shroomery had established itself as a community, they have a certain responsibility to maintain the spirit of the original site, and to cater to the users of the site.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: Phluck]
    #2122569 -

Yes, cater to ME! I wan't a pastrami on rye and a glass of ale, PRONTO! Papaver, you doing anything? Fill my order there buddy?


--------------------
Hi how's it going, wanna kick Heroin basically painlessly on your own, in your own house, without any government "help" ,or the "help" of a crazy condescending, judgmental medical doctor? Read this:

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=42&Number=7342616&page=0&fpart=all


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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: Papaver]
    #2122876 -

Papaver said:
I think we have a workable solution, and you will probably stumble across it within 48 hours or less... :wink: 

While we may have a workable solution - this will not be implemented in the time frame expressed.  It is never good to jump to conclusions, specifically when there is a significant amount of pressure to do so.  We are considering all viable options and will have implemented a decision no earlier than November 26th.
 


--------------------

--------------------
┼ ··∙   long live the shroomery  ∙·· ┼
...╬π╥ ╥π╬...

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: geokills]
    #2123017 -

Just in time for us to thank you on Thanksgiving. Take your time and get it right, I agree on that one.


--------------------
Hi how's it going, wanna kick Heroin basically painlessly on your own, in your own house, without any government "help" ,or the "help" of a crazy condescending, judgmental medical doctor? Read this:

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=42&Number=7342616&page=0&fpart=all


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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: Papaver]
    #2123188 -

- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: Phluck]
    #2123207 -

- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: ]
    #2123221 -

*Evolving for the sake of improvement.

Not, just, evolving.


--------------------
"Shmokin' weed, Shmokin' wizz, doin' coke, drinkin' beers.  Drinkin' beers beers beers, rollin' fatties, smokin' blunts.  Who smokes tha blunts?  We smoke the blunts" - Jay and Silent Bob strike Back

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: LiquidSmoke]
    #2123257 -

- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: ]
    #2123544 -

Quote:
I don't like it when you specifically contradict Geo and I think you are bowing to pressure that you need'nt if you only realize that you as an adminstrator are in charge with your other administrators.

With the two of you contradicting each other it can make people think you don't know what the hell you are doing. Please confer with the others before you make the Shroomery look bad, again.




Everyone makes mistakes Mr Mushrooms. This is the first time I have ever seen two admins conflict, and I doubt it was intentionally done although of corse there's no way I could know.


--------------------
Hi how's it going, wanna kick Heroin basically painlessly on your own, in your own house, without any government "help" ,or the "help" of a crazy condescending, judgmental medical doctor? Read this:

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=42&Number=7342616&page=0&fpart=all


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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: Lightningfractal]
    #2123649 -

Don't worry about it, papaver has received his beating and I doubt he will do anything like it again :lol:

It was a mistake, but we are only human.
 


--------------------

--------------------
┼ ··∙   long live the shroomery  ∙·· ┼
...╬π╥ ╥π╬...

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: geokills]
    #2124525 -

- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: ]
    #2124871 -

When dealing with drugs that often make people regress to a childlike state, maturity is not to be expected all the time.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: Phluck]
    #2125030 -

- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: afoaf]
    #2127339 -

Here's a post I made in the moderator's forum, I just wanted people to know where I stand on the issue and maybe give the mods an opportunity to see how the rest of the members feel about it.

I didn?t weight in on the initial discussion of OTD, so I felt it wasn?t really my place to get into it now that the experiment is already underway. However, geo messaged me asking for my opinion so I figured I?d share. I just finished a long-ass paper so I?m kind of burnt out on writing. Please bear with my rambling, I promise I do have a point.

First of all, let me say that I agree with the sentiment of the OTD reformers. I fondly remember the days when OTD was a place for light-hearted, good natured discussion. Most of the people who posted were regular contributors to the other forums who just wanted a break from mushroom talk. Today, many people visit the forums solely to post in OTD, and they may never visit the cultivation boards. I think it?s very telling that OTD has almost twice as many posts as the cultivation forums combined. At the same time, it?s obvious that the quality of the posts continue to decline as the quantity increases. Perhaps 1 out of every 50 posts in OTD is a ?keeper?, or something which I would subjectively say adds value to the community. Whether this actually reflects poorly on the site as a whole is open for discussion. I feel much of the criticism of the Shroomery comes from the apparently young age of our members and the ?let?s all get fucked up? attitude predominating the discussion in all the forums. However, for the purpose of this argument I?ll allow that OTD may be a blight on the community which causes some people to look down on the site or dismiss its potential for serious discussion. It also obviously places a greater load on the server, and necessitates more frequent upgrades in order to keep pace with the continually growing forums database.

It definitely took balls to suspend the OTD forums and I acknowledge the courage of the admins responsible. It?s never easy to make unpopular decisions and like I said, I agree with and respect the sentiment of those responsible. However, I feel the efforts may have been misguided and regardless, the reform was implemented in the wrong way. Let me explain.

First of all, I think it?s important to recognize and understand the nature of a community like our forums. Anybody can set up a bulletin board script, and many people do. The value of the board does not come from its availability. It isn?t popular because we reached the magic balance between forums or created the perfect color scheme. Regardless of how good or informative the rest of the site is, there?s no reason people will automatically use our forums when a million other BBs are just a click away. The value of the BB comes directly from the posts made by our members. For this reason, many of our members feel a sense of ownership of the BB, and rightly so. This is what makes or breaks a community like ours. People will continue to contribute as long as they feel they have a stake in the forums. If they don?t have this, there?s no reason they will stay here. Anything which undermines this sense of ownership is destructive to the community as a whole. This is why it?s important to act by consensus and in response to the will of the members. Our role should be to implement policy and features which are conductive to this sense of ownership, and avoid actions which undermine it. Of course, our members don?t always know what?s best for the forums or even have the interests of the site in mind. Don?t forget that often we don?t either. This is why we must make an effort to fully explain any actions we take, solicit feedback, discuss and reach a consensus within the community and strive to respect the wishes of our members to the greatest extent possible.

Closing OTD definitely does not respect the wishes of our members. I still haven?t seen a well thought out and articulate post explaining the reasoning behind this action. You could argue that we do not have to be concerned with the will of the OTD members, since those are the people we?re trying to get rid of anyway. I would argue against this. Even if people hate OTD and never read it, when they see the admins acting in a way which disregards the will of any large group of members, they lose confidence in our ability and desire to respect their ownership of the BB. Further, I?m not exactly sure whose interests we are trying to respect by closing the forum. I certainly didn?t see posts in any of the other forums calling for its removal or reform. People may complain about it, but they tolerate it because they know they aren?t forced to read or post in it. We have provided an alternative to OTD for people who don?t find the atmosphere of that forum pleasant. What exactly necessitated these drastic changes?

Do people look down on the BB? Maybe a few, but who cares? They think we?re vulgar, we think they?re elitist. Ultimately, we have one of the largest, most tightly-knit and most active communities among drug-related sites on the internet. The fact that we are dedicated to a relatively obscure entheogen makes this fact even more remarkable. Our community didn?t evolve out of a strict set of rules and controls on free speech. People gravitated to our BB because we let them have that ownership which is so important to a community. You could argue that this move is in the best long-term interest of the forums, but I would say the best thing we can do for our forums long-term is maintain an overriding sense of respect for our members and their wishes. If there was a public outcry against OTD, and the majority of our members really wanted it reformed, it would be very much worth consideration. However, that is clearly not the case. We have already alienated a large percentage of our members, and at best it seems that people are viewing the move with a sense of resignation. The will of our members is clearly to leave OTD intact. I think that carries a lot of weight.

Is OTD taking a toll on the server? Of course. So, we upgrade the server when it needs it. No big deal. I have confidence in technology?s ability to outpace the growth of OTD. We can get faster hard drives, CPUs and RAM once every two years and we should be fine. It?s certainly within the site?s budget. If people still feel it?s too slow, we can customize our search to optionally exclude community forums. That way people searching for mushroom information don?t have to wait while the script slogs through ? of a million posts. Worst case, we can expire threads which have been inactive for 6 months and cut the number of posts in OTD drastically. Removing or reforming OTD is not necessary.

Some people think we aren?t obligated to keep OTD because it doesn?t have anything to do with mushrooms. All I can do is point out that ? of our forums have nothing to do with mushrooms. Our BB should not be a joyless place where every thread without ?mushroom? in the title gets deleted. I understand the feelings of those who say we should place a priority on mushroom-related discussions ? of course, that?s the point of the page. However, it?s not like OTD is preventing any of the other forums from working properly. At worst it has a miniscule impact on the performance of the server. I don?t think it?s interfering with our mission statement or purpose.

What?s my recommendation? Open OTD again, now, before we piss of more people. If you don?t like the tone of that forum, then make positive posts and replies and lead by example. Remember that our members should dictate the BB?s policies and everything we do should be in their interest. If OTD is distressing to you, don?t read it.

Anyway I?m going to stop typing now. I welcome all comments, questions and feedback. Hopefully the mods and admins of this site will make the right decision.

Peace,

-Y

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: ]
    #2127400 -

Thank you Ythan!

Your post is very well thought out and again I thank you for taking the time to post this in the open where everyone can see it.


--------------------

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: ]
    #2127424 -

the creator has spoken! (very articulately, i might add) great points.

i love otd. otd is where i have placed the majority of my posts during the past 8 months. i would miss it if it were destroyed, but i wouldn't miss the annoying b.s. from otd (ex. posting the alphabet one letter at a time and such). if all of that b.s. is going to remain in otd, then i could handle missing otd.


--------------------
Anno cock? Is that some kind of Greek liquer? -Geo's all-knowing sex slave
Scat's way better than mud cause it's warm. -Ythan 4/23/07

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: ]
    #2127425 -

My god, why in blazing hell is this man the only one in the administration to see the truth?


--------------------
Hi how's it going, wanna kick Heroin basically painlessly on your own, in your own house, without any government "help" ,or the "help" of a crazy condescending, judgmental medical doctor? Read this:

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=42&Number=7342616&page=0&fpart=all


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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: Lightningfractal]
    #2127503 -

Cause Ythan created and started this site


--------------------
Motherfucker stop reading my sig goddamnit

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: ]
    #2127510 -

/claps hands

BRAVO BRAVO


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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: Lightningfractal]
    #2127566 -

Lightningfractal said:
My god, why in blazing hell is this man the only one in the administration to see the truth?

This is not about a universal truth. I can speak for myself when I say that I am not hiding behind any misconceptions and I am trying to gain a scope of all ranges from the public opinion. I empathize with Ythan's concern over the fate of a forum so important to this community - and this is primarily why OTD will likely have a place at this site for years to come. However, I am looking for a way to satisfy all parties involved - not just those who love OTD and the chat-style atmosphere, but those who also can't stand it and view it as a blight on the community, and at the opposite extreme those who are driven from the community because of it.

Hardcore OTDers and others will have a place in this community, it is only a question of how the different parties can coexist in peace. As I stated in the "Opening the Mod Forums" thread, we will be bringing this matter open to public discussion after we have narrowed down the options such that the discussion may actually be able to reach some concensus. Look for it Monday.


--------------------

--------------------
┼ ··∙   long live the shroomery  ∙·· ┼
...╬π╥ ╥π╬...

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: ]
    #2127622 -

Ythan has spoken, and he has spoken wisely.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: Phluck]
    #2127644 -

yes he has
I move for an immediate reinstation OTD
back the way it was,with all the posts that were there originally
when it was taken down!



--------------------
"A politician is like a baby's diaper, it should be changed often and for the same reason"-Coy Turner Sr.

"what is a weed, a plant whose virtues have not yet been discovered"--Ralph Waldo Emerson

"I'm sippin Hennessy, riding on my muthafucking enemies" -Meek Mill.


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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: geokills]
    #2127671 -

The creator of the website and the community has spoken yet you still don't listen. Talk about nazi leadership. I'd like to see you make a post as detailed as Ythan's explaining all of your standpoints on the situation. I think you can't because as we all know...only a select few want OTD changed. I used to think you were a really cool person but I've lost much respect for you. I hope you can find love in your heart once again.

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: BOBs]
    #2127679 -

used to think you were a really cool person but I've lost much respect for you



I think alot of people feel this way.

I like GEO but I think this "experiment" was a bunch of crap


--------------------
"A politician is like a baby's diaper, it should be changed often and for the same reason"-Coy Turner Sr.

"what is a weed, a plant whose virtues have not yet been discovered"--Ralph Waldo Emerson

"I'm sippin Hennessy, riding on my muthafucking enemies" -Meek Mill.


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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: BOBs]
    #2127705 -

BOBs, shit man - keep an open mind. I've spent countless hours keeping an eye on everything that has been said and is being discussed here. Just chill until Monday. I know Ythan is making his statements because he wants the same that I do - that is, keeping the most people happy. I am not blowing off what he is saying by any means, and I know he knows this. In fact, if you are considering the length of his statement as any measure of applicability - then I should win in that event because of the sheer number of opinions I have thrown up for discussion.

Simply because I am chosing to keep this matter amongst the staff for the time being does not mean that I am not being as objective as possible. I only wish to have a reasonable set of options before we involve the public or else it will continue on as an "Us Vs. Them" type argument as opposed to a rational presentation of many possibilities and trying to decide which one would suit the most people. My intentions are genuine and it is my belief that there are far more people who support this experiment that simply choose to stay out of it. The bottom line is the OTD crowd here is the most vocal so it's to be expected that these threads would primarily be fed with people fighting for their forum. For example, I've seen windex speak out against what OTD has become.. but he's not hammering it home by any means. Just because he made one comment about it and any given OTD frequent makes ten times as many doesn't mean that his opinion doesn't carry as much weight as the other.

Personally, I feel Ythan would support the move to take this discussion public this coming week instead of taking quick and rash action in order to see what the overall concensus really is. You should have learned from the hobby this site is dedicated to... patience is key.


--------------------

--------------------
┼ ··∙   long live the shroomery  ∙·· ┼
...╬π╥ ╥π╬...

Edited by geokills (11/21/03 03:05 PM)

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: BOBs]
    #2127709 -

/me kisses Bobs on da nose :P

Ythan, you diplomatic devil :smile:  Im glad what I heard were lies....  when are you gonna put us all out of our misery and get the server back from these "people"?

Im glad you finally spoke.  Im glad you cleared up that it wasnt about money or resources.  Im glad that you are still the you I thought you were. :smile:  Im glad somewhere, this place is still what I thought it was.  Too bad it has been killed for all intents and purposes.

That is all.

Good luck shroomery.



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Edited by PsiloKitten (11/21/03 03:14 PM)

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: ]
    #2127711 -

:smile: Bom and I were just wondering exactly how you felt on the whole ordeal, thank-you for speaking up, it somehow makes me feel better.  I know I've been feeling incredable displaced and almost homeless, OTD was a home away from home for me, it had been for years, I posted in the other forms too, but OTD was home.  Neither Bom nor I have said anything about all the new drama, because well its just drama and I'm personally afraid of being banned for voicing opinion at this point.


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~Earth is the Insane Asylum of the Universe~

A closed mind is a wonderful thing to lose.

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: Gillette]
    #2127719 -

Quote:
Gillette said:
I'm personally afraid of being banned for voicing opinion at this point. 

  :frown: I hate to see people feeling this way.  Our goal is not to outright censor the community.  You will never get banned for speaking your mind unless you choose to voice your opinion in an inappropriate matter by flooding on-topic forums or by some other means of protest that degrades or attempts to undermine the site.  Come Monday, I emplore you and everyone else with a say in the matter to make their voices heard in a final discussion thread.  Can't tell you where it's going to be yet, but rest assured the entire membership will be notified.

edit: rephrasing
   


--------------------

--------------------
┼ ··∙   long live the shroomery  ∙·· ┼
...╬π╥ ╥π╬...

Edited by geokills (11/21/03 03:13 PM)

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: geokills]
    #2127726 -

You are unbelieveable.

:razz:


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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: geokills]
    #2127739 -

Personally that's what you feel Ythan supports eh? I guess I must have completely misunderstood him when he said this.

Quote:
What?s my recommendation? Open OTD again, now, before we piss of more people. If you don?t like the tone of that forum, then make positive posts and replies and lead by example. Remember that our members should dictate the BB?s policies and everything we do should be in their interest. If OTD is distressing to you, don?t read it.



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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: joe666]
    #2127781 -

I just discovered this post and though I am relatively new to the community I would like to add my opinion.

First off, I do not spend most of my time in OTD. Rather, I am evenly split between many forums, OTD probably occupying the least amount of my time at the Shroomery.

If I have gotten all the information from this post correct it would seem that there are many different reasons for the hopefully temporary closing of OTD. One of them happens to be for those members who "can't stand it and view it as a blight on the community." If the statistics I have read about OTD are true (the one's that state OTD takes up %40 of the posts out of all of the forums) then it would seem that those who enjoy OTD vastly outnumber those who don't.

If people do not like OTD then they can simply choose to ignore it. They are not being forced to view any post there, and if people want to be stupid, childish and ignorant this is their right. Many people may not like it, but it is also those people's right to disagree.

And as for the Shroomery not being a democracy...of course it isn't. But whenever you make a place available to the public you have an obligation to cater to those you are offering it to.

And while those who frequent the Shroomery do not have to pay a fee (thus the main reason behind it not being a democracy) if the Shroomery is indeed making a profit from its ad revenue (which I remember reading, and I'm assuming is the main source of revenue for the site) then the sole reason behind this is because the Shroomery members are utilizing these companies enough to make them stay. So while they do not actually pay to use the site, it's obvious that without members the Shroomery would not be able to survive.

This seems to bring back memories of members of different factions trying to put their beliefs on others. If you do not like what is being said in OTD, then don't go there. People have a right to post just as you have the right to disagree. But who's to say who is right and who is wrong? The administrators? Maybe. But generally speaking I can see no adverse effects towards the Shroomery from OTD. Never once have I had a friend that I let know about the Shroomery say to me, "I liked the site but that OTD forum is just too messed up."

And for those who say the people who post in OTD are being immature (which I agree with, many posts are ridiculous), why aren't you mature enough to realize that OTD in no way affects you if you just don't go there?

I'm sorry, I realize this post is extremely long, but I am very steadfast believer in free speech. OTD is Off-Topic Discussion. To implement any rules governing it would defeat the entire purpose of having the forum in the first place.

And just for your information I'm only 18 years old. So please don't think that everyone in OTD is young and immature.

Thanks for reading.


--------------------
No question is so difficult to answer as that to which the answer is obvious.

Meow.

Edited by MycoCat (11/21/03 03:48 PM)

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: geokills]
    #2127788 -

Quote:
Simply because I am chosing to keep this matter amongst the staff for the time being does not mean that I am not being as objective as possible. I only wish to have a reasonable set of options before we involve the public or else it will continue on as an "Us Vs. Them" type argument as opposed to a rational presentation of many possibilities and trying to decide which one would suit the most people.



Ok, so open OTD back up NOW, and we will participate in the discussion thread on Monday. What was the almighty URGENCY to suspend OTD while matters were discussed and a concensus reached?

edit: Try OUR little experiment. Open the OTD back up and allow everyone to ENJOY IT while all the discussions ABOUT IT proceed as planned?


--------------------
Hi how's it going, wanna kick Heroin basically painlessly on your own, in your own house, without any government "help" ,or the "help" of a crazy condescending, judgmental medical doctor? Read this:

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=42&Number=7342616&page=0&fpart=all


Edited by Lightningfractal (11/21/03 04:00 PM)

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: ]
    #2127819 -

Ythan-
thank you.
couldnt of put it better.
with that being said...
...you are the fucking man! :cool: 


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:pacman: - - - -  :pill: :mushroom2: :pill2: :mushroom2: :regularshroom: :mushroomgrow: :pill: :pill2: :mushroom2: :poison:

:sun::heart::sun:

tiny_rabid_birds said:
"your avatar is dirty."

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: PsiloKitten]
    #2127835 -

Ythan, you diplomatic devil .... when are you gonna put us all out of our misery and get the server back from these "people"?

Kind of like the feeling you got when they replaced your fave teacher with a substitute eh?  :grin:

I miss the old days too, but you know what they say..the more things change the more they stay the same. If nothing else, I respect these new admins for getting in and staying in the arena..lots of buffeting winds here at the ole Shroomery!

Ythan expressed very well the idea of "ownership". Any creative endeavor as successful as the Shroomery becomes a shared, alive thing. Take for example, a very popular song by the Rolling Stones or any great band. When they perform that song live, everyone is singing along. Now the band may take *some* liberties with the song, they hold the copyright afterall, but muck with it too much and they will soon learn a whole new meaning of the word,"ownership".

Another example that jumps to mind is when they changed classic Coke to New Coke.  :thumbdown:

The Shroomery is dead,
Long live the Shroomery..  :loveeyes:



--------------------
I am what Willis was talkin' bout.

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: ]
    #2127889 -

- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: geokills]
    #2127901 -

It?s interesting how most people obviously didn?t read the first part of Ythan?s post:

Quote:
First of all, let me say that I agree with the sentiment of the OTD reformers. I fondly remember the days when OTD was a place for light-hearted, good natured discussion. Most of the people who posted were regular contributors to the other forums who just wanted a break from mushroom talk. Today, many people visit the forums solely to post in OTD, and they may never visit the cultivation boards. I think it?s very telling that OTD has almost twice as many posts as the cultivation forums combined. At the same time, it?s obvious that the quality of the posts continue to decline as the quantity increases. Perhaps 1 out of every 50 posts in OTD is a ?keeper?, or something which I would subjectively say adds value to the community.



I agree wholeheartedly with this, and exactly that?s the reason why OTD as it has been in the past year sucks so much.


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Grow Mushrooms from Spores - PF-Tek for Simple Minds

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: BOBs]
    #2127902 -

this whole thing is just a load of crap. a bunch of damn strangers basically own the shroomery. i'm still kind of wondering why otd was shut down...not that it was a jewel of the shroomery, but still.


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Real botanists laugh at HPS systems, we do however use high pressure sodium in the parking lot. - artthug

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: felix]
    #2127918 -

Mr. Mushrooms, I disagree with you.

What is it about OTD that you dislike so much? Is anyone forcing you to examine the posts there? If people have vulgar opinions or are immature, why can't they post these opinions to a community of people they feel close to?

And who is to say that those who frequent OTD don't also contribute to the other 7 out of 26 forums that do have to do with mushrooms? You keep referring to those who post in OTD in a very general sense, but usually it is a small number who post ignorantly. But many posts in OTD are funny or are just conversation between individuals who like each other.

Why is there a need for it to go? Give me one specific example of how OTD has harmed the Shroomery in any real way.

But I do respect your opinion, and I appreciate the articulate way you put your ideas out there. I will admit I hate having to slog through bad grammar and spelling to get at what people are really saying.


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No question is so difficult to answer as that to which the answer is obvious.

Meow.

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: MycoCat]
    #2127932 -

> Give me one specific example of how OTD has harmed the
>Shroomery in any real way.

I can give you one.
A couple of months ago, a OTD clique began to harass members of another board ( teenhelp.com if I recall right) and the ultimate result of these actions was the closure of the other board.

Edit: and this doesn?t throw a good picture at the Shroomery, since the admins of the other board found out that the clique came from the Shroomery.....


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Grow Mushrooms from Spores - PF-Tek for Simple Minds

Edited by Anno (11/21/03 05:14 PM)

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: MycoCat]
    #2127935 -

And may I also say you are being a little melodramatic?

"[...]The Shroomery's "mission" is to cater to the lowest common denominator of the Internet, i.e. emotionally immature individuals who prey upon others."

It's just text. You can choose to ignore what ignorant comments people make. It's not like they honestly know you or are affecting you in the real world. If you are mature enough to realize what is being said is ignorant then you should also be mature enough to realize it doesn't really matter.


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No question is so difficult to answer as that to which the answer is obvious.

Meow.

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: MycoCat]
    #2127940 -

So Anno, do you think if OTD didn't exist then that wouldn't have happened? It's not like people flock to the Shroomery just for OTD. If people are negative enough to do something like that then they will do it no matter where they post.

That's like saying you should shut down a local Boy's Club or YMCA because a few kids that met there began harassing others. You don't shut the entire operation down (thus ruining it for everyone), you ban the few who are actively doing something harmful.


--------------------
No question is so difficult to answer as that to which the answer is obvious.

Meow.

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: MycoCat]
    #2127942 -

>So Anno, do you think if OTD didn't exist then that wouldn't have happened?

I?m 100% sure.


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Grow Mushrooms from Spores - PF-Tek for Simple Minds

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: Anno]
    #2127948 -

You don't think those individuals wouldn't have found somewhere else to post and spread their negativity?

If OTD didn't exist then they would have done the same thing somewhere else.


--------------------
No question is so difficult to answer as that to which the answer is obvious.

Meow.

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: MycoCat]
    #2127981 -

>You don't think those individuals wouldn't have found somewhere else
>to post and spread their negativity?

No, not at the other forums of the Shroomery.
This type of behavior is specific for the OTD forum due to the relatively loose rules.


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Grow Mushrooms from Spores - PF-Tek for Simple Minds

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: Anno]
    #2127992 -

I just read LiquidSmoke's post about OTD.

I would like to add that upon thinking about it I do thoroughly respect geokills for what he is trying to do. Though I do not agree with him I believe his intentions are nothing but good and it takes a lot for a person to go against a very outspoken majority.


--------------------
No question is so difficult to answer as that to which the answer is obvious.

Meow.

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: MycoCat]
    #2128062 -

- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: ]
    #2128095 -

"This thinking ignores the fact that the lower the common denominator, the lower class of people you attract. Ythan's post ignores this as well."

You speak in an extremely condescending manner. You seem like an elitist. Why are they lower class? Because they're vulgar? When I'm with people I'm comfortable with I say stupid things, I laugh and I have a good time. This does not make me a lower class person.

"I've heard the argument but it doesn't hold water. Software has been designed to show the number of posts each member has in each forum. There are many individuals who post nowhere but OTD."

If you've only got 7 out of 26 forums related to mushrooms than how can you expect the majority of the posts to be about mushrooms? One third of the forums are about mushroom related topics and apparently about one third of the posts are in mushroom related forums. That sort of makes sense, doesn't it?

"Not only is something wrong when immature people who have nothing to do with mushrooms take up most of the server space at a mushroom website but it waaaaaaaaay wrong when a forum like that becomes the focus of the staff's own forum."

Even if most of server space is taken up by OTD, if the Shroomery is still making a profit than what is there to worry about? If you could show that OTD members were harming the Shroomery in some financial (meaning it couldn't continue if OTD stayed) then it would make more sense.

"Not only did Anno give a real life example of how that forum has hurt the Shroomery's reputation but I think the real damage is done and there is evidence in something we don't see."

The Shroomery is one of the most well regarded drug related sites out there. And who are we out to impress? Why does the Shroomery need a reputation?


My thoughts are basically this. Removing OTD will not solve the problem (which I'm still not sure what exactly the problem is). Everyone keeps saying there are a multitude of reasons, but I haven't heard one concrete example of why OTD needs to removed. It seems that the only people who want OTD gone are the ones who do not frequent or utilize it.

And if you get rid of OTD you will just have that "lower class" element you dislike so much taking up space in other forums. Why not keep them all in one place where they can live in peace (or anger I guess you could say) with each other?






--------------------
No question is so difficult to answer as that to which the answer is obvious.

Meow.

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: MycoCat]
    #2128100 -

>Why does the Shroomery need a reputation?

You should check your perception of reality.


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Grow Mushrooms from Spores - PF-Tek for Simple Minds

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: Anno]
    #2128114 -

I don't understand why the place you post needs a reputation. The Shroomery is not a real business. It is a non-profit organization that was made to provide information about mushrooms to those who could not normally find it. So why do you need a reputation? What does it accomplish? Bragging rights?

I understand having a solid reputation would bring in more business, but I don't think that OTD really affects it that much. I never even knew people had problems with OTD until it was closed. So I'm sure the general public doesn't either. Nor the mushroom related public, because I've been browsing mushroom related sites for around four years and I've never heard anything but amazing things about the Shroomery anywhere.


--------------------
No question is so difficult to answer as that to which the answer is obvious.

Meow.

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: MycoCat]
    #2128118 -

"Nor the mushroom related public, because I've been browsing mushroom related sites for around four years and I've never heard anything but amazing things about the Shroomery anywhere."

Though maybe that kills my argument because the reason I came here in the first place was because I heard the Shroomery was so great.

Grrr.


--------------------
No question is so difficult to answer as that to which the answer is obvious.

Meow.

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: MycoCat]
    #2128170 -

*I don't understand why the place you post needs a reputation.

Myco, allow me to step in momentarily. You know I think you're the greatest. And I know you contribute to the mycological aspects of this site. With this whole OTD situation, almost everybody wants the same thing. We want OTD back... but we understand there are some BAD things that happen because of OTD.

... that is the problem with Shroomerites. We look at both sides of a situation and like what both offer... Yin and Yang man...

The Shroomery needs a reputation because its PURPOSE is to STOP the spread of MISINFORMATION surrounding psychadelic mushrooms. In order to do this, The Shroomery MUST be reputable.

Often enough, if new people come for info, and then look at OTD, their whole attitude of the sight is lessened. Sure they chose wether to stay or go... but what if they were a briliant mycologist sent away by the OTD? This doesn't help The Shroomery. The Shroomery has to cater to mycologists if it wants mycologists.

I know I had to re-evaluate staying here as a member after my first experience in OTD. Fortunately, I'm internet savy enough to know this: The people who make up ANY OTD are different than the the people who frequent the site itself. Sure, some members go there, but OTD is as OTD does. This is the way of the internet... not just The Shroomery. That is why it is OFF TOPIC DISCUSSION... still, The Shroomery being what it is, it loses respectability the minute a mature mycologist views hello.jpg.

That said, I must not be very mature. I laugh at hello.jpg jokes.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: MycoCat]
    #2128182 -

- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: Rose]
    #2128195 -

I get what you're saying, but any mature person with some form of intelligence (hopefully the type of people the Shroomery is trying to attract) should realize that the Shroomery is not defined by one forum. Within seconds of looking at OTD you realize that it is just a place for those to shoot the proverbial shit.

And thanks Cervantes, I think I'm the greatest as well.  :wink:   


--------------------
No question is so difficult to answer as that to which the answer is obvious.

Meow.

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: Rose]
    #2128200 -

- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: MycoCat]
    #2128208 -

Mr. Mushroom, please don't take my arguments the wrong way. I'm not attacking you. I harbor no ill feeling towards any Shroomery member, especially someone who obviously cares so strongly about it.

But OTD is not just about people preying on others. It is a place for those to post whatever they are feeling, regardless of how vulgar it may seem to others.

I agree with you. I think that the Shroomery would benefit greatly from as many experienced mycologists (or those truly interested in mycology) as possible. But I do also think that everyone needs a place to vent or act like an idiot. And I do think those who try and ruin the Shroomery for others should be banned. I've only been registered a short while, but the Shroomery has been part of my life for almost two years. I honestly have its best interests at heart.

And I think you're right, everything that could be said, has been. So whatever happens, just know that I respect your commitment for the betterment of the Shroomery.



--------------------
No question is so difficult to answer as that to which the answer is obvious.

Meow.

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: MycoCat]
    #2128217 -

- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: ]
    #2128285 -

We are the priests, of the temples of Syrinx....

Forget about your silly (OTD) whim, IT DOESN'T FIT THE PLAN!!

-Rush


--------------------
Hi how's it going, wanna kick Heroin basically painlessly on your own, in your own house, without any government "help" ,or the "help" of a crazy condescending, judgmental medical doctor? Read this:

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=42&Number=7342616&page=0&fpart=all


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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: MycoCat]
    #2128361 -

Quote:
MycoCat said:
Mr. Mushroom, please don't take my arguments the wrong way. I'm not attacking you. I harbor no ill feeling towards any Shroomery member, especially someone who obviously cares so strongly about it.

But OTD is not just about people preying on others. It is a place for those to post whatever they are feeling, regardless of how vulgar it may seem to others.

I agree with you. I think that the Shroomery would benefit greatly from as many experienced mycologists (or those truly interested in mycology) as possible. But I do also think that everyone needs a place to vent or act like an idiot. And I do think those who try and ruin the Shroomery for others should be banned. I've only been registered a short while, but the Shroomery has been part of my life for almost two years. I honestly have its best interests at heart.

And I think you're right, everything that could be said, has been. So whatever happens, just know that I respect your commitment for the betterment of the Shroomery.





This is why I think OTD should stay as it was just add a disclaimer.

N00B'S BEWARE

or

ENTER AT YOUR OWN RISK
FREE SPEECH ISN'T ALWAYS FUN

Just to let the floods of new Shroomerites know what type of place OTD is.

I also, think drug talk should be discouraged in OTD and encouraged in the other forums.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: Rose]
    #2128386 -

Ok, let's say that maybe, just hypothetically speaking - we brought OTD back as an invisible forum. Thus, it wouldn't be publicly displayed on the indexes - but it would still operate under fairly loose guidelines to allow people to essentially post as much as they want and what they want (except of course continuous flames, things that would undermine the community like the teenhelp thing anno mentioned, etc). The trick is that threads would expire say, maybe sixty days after the last post was made.. so after two months of inactivity a thread would be deleted. Of course, realizing that some threads may want to be kept, there is an option for moderators to prevent a thread from expiring if it has spawned an interesting converstation that future generations may wish to view.

To me, and this is just me speaking here (though I know that many OTD regulars are not opposed to this idea) - I believe this plan will keep everyone happy. There will still be a forum open to people who wish to post chat-style, and obviously if it's just a chatty whore thread.. no one's going to go back and read it so let it expire after two months of inactivity. This will free up a lot of MySQL databse query time - even though we're not hurting yet, there is no reason to continuously update hardware to compensate for a forum that no one really references and which uses an incredibly disproportionate amount of resources. Allowing specified threads to be kept solves any problem of losing good topics and keeping the forum out of the public view solves the problem of turning away newcomers and users who are here to engage in some serious debate about the psychedelic experience - in specific, magic mushrooms.

There could also be different ways of doing this, one of which is to create a seperate user group for the forum - and anyone who requests access will be granted it. This will keep it off the radar for those of us who would decide to have nothing to do with such a forum. Additionally, new users will have the option to request access (ie. they'll know that it at least exists), but they will be warned heavily about it's relative rough and tumble nature in the welcome PM that is sent to new users. Ponder the possibilities for the greater good...


--------------------

--------------------
┼ ··∙   long live the shroomery  ∙·· ┼
...╬π╥ ╥π╬...

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: geokills]
    #2128389 -

I don't think that would be a bad idea at all.

Now suppose for a minute that you had not conducted the "experiment". Suppose you would have left OTD open, and discussed these things in the mod forum and come to this solution. Suppose you would have just posted this just now as a sticky in the OTD. Don't you think it would have been taken a lot better by the members? Why the big C.I.A. drama? Just wondering dude but damn, why did you do it like this?


--------------------
Hi how's it going, wanna kick Heroin basically painlessly on your own, in your own house, without any government "help" ,or the "help" of a crazy condescending, judgmental medical doctor? Read this:

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=42&Number=7342616&page=0&fpart=all


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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: Lightningfractal]
    #2128410 -

It was done this way because no one was sure what exactly should be done about OTD in addition to the desire to see if users could control themselves.  The experiment helped to present the problem to a greater audience and encouraged the active brainstorming of ideas and possible solutions to what could continue to become a big problem for the site in the future.  I'll admit that the implementation of the project went horribly and I feel that it was the negative beginning to all of this that sparked all the controversy and paranoia over an evil power trying to ruin the Shroomery. 

I mean shit my niggas, I love all you bitches - we just need to stop fucking fighting so much and take things with a bit more stride.  The temporary closure of a forum is no big deal.. sites go down all the time.  Overgrow shuts down for quite a long time when they do their server upgrades so it doesn't look like they are unorganized.  We on the other hand have tended to keep things up and running during any upgrades which results in any number of associated problems like people spending a long time on a post and then only finding out it can't be submitted and losing the text :lipsrsealed: .. lord knows that's happened to me enough :lol:

But really, taking a little break isn't going to kill anyone - I don't understand why so many people chose to overreact about it instead of just chillin' until the facts were out.  If you've seen many of the posts from myself or papaver, you should know that we're doing this because we want to keep the Shroomery in good standing and health for many years to come.  This includes taking a proactive stance at times in the face of adverse opinion.  It may hurt in the beginning, but in the long run it will make for a better site.

Anyways, we're family - it's expected we'd get unreasonably upset at each other at times :wink:
 


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┼ ··∙   long live the shroomery  ∙·· ┼
...╬π╥ ╥π╬...

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: geokills]
    #2128416 -

I don't know if it has been mentioned but I think it is important to point out that although a ot of users might only post in OTD, I'm sure that they occasionally read other forums. Some of the other forums can be intimidating in other ways. The know it alls and master-debaters ( :smile: )own PAL and the spiritual gurus and alien abductionists own S&P. But I think they read these other forums and eventually some will start to post there. Also, if OTD draws the big crowds than it is our most powerful tool in stopping the spread of misinformation. That after all is the expresses purpose of this site. This is your opportunity to reach out to the kids that just came for the party. Like the martial arts instructor that takes a kid who wants to learn how to fight and ends up teaching them a better way of living and a respect for themselves and their enemies.

The hitch is that this depends on the older members who have the experience, knowledge, and wisdom don't abandon the community because of the kids. They need to take a leadership role. A lot of these kids are looking for subtle guidance (IMO).


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Be all and you'll be to end all

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #2128463 -

In my opinion (anyone getting sick of it yet?) I don't think people were angry about OTD being taken down. Rather, they were angry that no one told them exactly why it was being taken down, and rather responded with "be patient."

The members that make up the Shroomery have a right to know what's going on. But I do think that this probably have a really good outcome in the future. It at least showed who really cared about the Shroomery and who was just out to make other people miserable.


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No question is so difficult to answer as that to which the answer is obvious.

Meow.

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: MycoCat]
    #2128468 -

The mycology nazis and the easily offended could always go to mycotopia where there are no freedoms.


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Be all and you'll be to end all

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: geokills]
    #2128522 -

- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #2128533 -

- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: ]
    #2128548 -

Ythan for admin!

Eloquent shit man, it's always been about the ownership.

Hail Ythan the Great
Hail Ythan the Wise



--------------------
"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: ]
    #2128575 -

I know what you are saying. I actually found the shroomery through mycotopia. I originally came for the mycology info but now that I am not actively growing I stay for the fun. I do read all the forums even if I rarely or never post in them. And I agree that there are a lot of unsavory characters around OTD. ( I hope I'm not included in that group) But that is what I was saying about our opportunity to teach and impart some respect for all entheogens into them. Some will never get it though. But in order to protect my rights I need to protect the rights of everyone including those I don't like. Any free society must put up with a certain amount of BS in order to be free.

Except for a few slips I don't remember anyone ever getting banned for disagreeing with an admin and debating them on a point. But that is how it is at mycotopia. I wouldn't want the shroomery to be like that. The beauty of the shroomery is the same as the beauty of life, it is the good with the bad, the pure with the seedy. The shroomery is the yin/yang of fungi and the Internet.


BTW I have decided to copywrite "Mycology Nazi" You'll have to pay me to use it.



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Be all and you'll be to end all

Edited by mntlfngrs (11/22/03 12:37 AM)

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #2128589 -

Hell yes it is.  The fact that we are the yin/yang of fungi on the internet will probably never change - I'm only saying that we should do our best and it would be in the best interests of the Shroomery to keep our best foot forward.  I can personally assure you that someone will never be banned here for merely disagreeing with an administrator or staff member - and if they are, I will do everything in my power to get to the bottom of it and see that the user is unbanned if appropriate.  This of course doesn't mean that people who disagree with the administration are free to disrupt the board with thier distaste - but I'm sure you already knew that.  So long as people can be real about it, we have no problem.  It's when people lose their self control and act unrelenting for no other purpose than to stir up shit because they thing it will bring about changes (eg. PGF).

Anyways, think about the idea proposed as it really is the best of both worlds and will essentially put to rest all arguments that either side may have.  :spliff:
 


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┼ ··∙   long live the shroomery  ∙·· ┼
...╬π╥ ╥π╬...

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: geokills]
    #2128599 -

Your idea sounds good to me.


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Fiddlesticks.


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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: geokills]
    #2128615 -

I agree that people who disrupt for the purpose of disrupting should be warned and then banned if they can't find a more productive outlet.

I do like the idea of the unseen OTD or something along those lines.
I think the temp shutdown of OTD might even go a long way in shaking out the fluff.

Anyway I do thank all the admins and mods for their time, energy, and dedication to the Shroomery. All you work has raised the Shroomery to cult status. I always wanted to be in a cult! :smile:


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Be all and you'll be to end all

Edited by mntlfngrs (11/22/03 12:27 AM)

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: MycoCat]
    #2128735 -

Quote:
MycoCats Re: to Mr. Mushrooms:

You speak in an extremely condescending manner. You seem like an elitist. Why are they lower class?



http://www.shroomery.org/matts/rate/rati...p;vc=&main=


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:pacman: - - - -  :pill: :mushroom2: :pill2: :mushroom2: :regularshroom: :mushroomgrow: :pill: :pill2: :mushroom2: :poison:

:sun::heart::sun:

tiny_rabid_birds said:
"your avatar is dirty."

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: Rose]
    #2128775 -

Quote:
The Shroomery needs a reputation because its PURPOSE is to STOP the spread of MISINFORMATION surrounding psychadelic mushrooms. In order to do this, The Shroomery MUST be reputable.



Nicely said.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: 40oz]
    #2128777 -

Way to take a thread on a subject and turn it into a rant on a single member.    :thumbdown:


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2128781 -

MycoCat asked a question, i gave an answer.
save the melodrama for someone else.


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:pacman: - - - -  :pill: :mushroom2: :pill2: :mushroom2: :regularshroom: :mushroomgrow: :pill: :pill2: :mushroom2: :poison:

:sun::heart::sun:

tiny_rabid_birds said:
"your avatar is dirty."

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: 40oz]
    #2128788 -

And then you edit your post without marking it as having been edited.

Very disingenuous.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2128792 -

Allright, now you're both guity of hijackin' the topic :crazy2:
 


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┼ ··∙   long live the shroomery  ∙·· ┼
...╬π╥ ╥π╬...

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2128798 -

regardless of what i edited, its still the same common denominator.


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:pacman: - - - -  :pill: :mushroom2: :pill2: :mushroom2: :regularshroom: :mushroomgrow: :pill: :pill2: :mushroom2: :poison:

:sun::heart::sun:

tiny_rabid_birds said:
"your avatar is dirty."

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: 40oz]
    #2128846 -

- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: ]
    #2129295 -

i have no beef with you as well MM,
sometimes i just think you misspeak yourself.
just my opinion. no foul.

as far as OTD goes, i dont want to speculate on the matter.



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:pacman: - - - -  :pill: :mushroom2: :pill2: :mushroom2: :regularshroom: :mushroomgrow: :pill: :pill2: :mushroom2: :poison:

:sun::heart::sun:

tiny_rabid_birds said:
"your avatar is dirty."

Edited by fortyounces2freedom (11/22/03 03:24 PM)

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: 40oz]
    #2129419 -

- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: ]
    #2129481 -

"I don't understand why so many people chose to overreact about it instead of just chillin' until the facts were out.

You don't? It's called being impatient. Which is a sign of immaturity.

"Mommy, Daddy, Mommy, Daddy, I want it NOW, God Damn it! "

Being condescending and arrogant isn't exactly a sign of maturity etiher.

The reason that people weren't "just chillin'" was because they had no idea what was going on, and the mods didn't care enough to let them know. There were a lot of rumours going around about how OTD was going to be drastically censored, or deleted altogether, and there wasn't exactly a lot of evidence to the contrary. When OTD is taken away, and it's called "an experiment", that makes it sound a lot like they're experimenting with the idea of taking OTD away.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: Phluck]
    #2129512 -

- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: Phluck]
    #2129529 -

> experimenting with the idea of taking OTD away

Even if we were, I don't understand why people let rumours infect their thinking. The notice I left in OTD specifically stated our reasons and that nothing had been decided yet and of course we were experimenting with the idea of taking OTD away, but it's not like we are going to outright delete something under guise of an experiment. We wanted to gauge the affect it had on the community and if people could keep their cool. Of course, we also wanted to use the hiatus as a time to discuss viable options to keep this community in good shape for future generations to come. Board members need not concern themselves with rumour and at least give the administration enough confidence to allow them to try new things out before jumping to conclusions. It's not like we were going to jump into something irreversible without seeing where the community stands. In retrospect, things may not have gone precisely as planned and some people did a nice job at raising unwarranted concern and speculation across the community - but hell, every group has its ups and downs.. the true strength of a community comes from its ability to cope with disaster


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┼ ··∙   long live the shroomery  ∙·· ┼
...╬π╥ ╥π╬...

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: ]
    #2129624 -

Mr_Mushrooms said:
There are 26 some odd forums here at the Shroomery. Not one is so important that I would lose any sleep should it close.


Even Spirituality and Philsophy? *can't imagine*
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: geokills]
    #2129694 -

so you really had no idea what you were going to do.
you just shut down OTD and started "brain storming"


that HAS to be one the most IGNORANT things I have ever heard.


NO PLAN

Oh, that's good thinking.


--------------------
"A politician is like a baby's diaper, it should be changed often and for the same reason"-Coy Turner Sr.

"what is a weed, a plant whose virtues have not yet been discovered"--Ralph Waldo Emerson

"I'm sippin Hennessy, riding on my muthafucking enemies" -Meek Mill.


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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: ]
    #2129895 -

Mr_Mushrooms said:
Ok, that's too bad though. As one of the best members there I think your opinion carries a lot of weight.

Cheers,

MM


i believe, the more someone talks, the less people will listen.
as serious as this issue is to me,
ill save my opinions, for when it is indispensable.
i wont voice an opinion based on theoretics.






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:pacman: - - - -  :pill: :mushroom2: :pill2: :mushroom2: :regularshroom: :mushroomgrow: :pill: :pill2: :mushroom2: :poison:

:sun::heart::sun:

tiny_rabid_birds said:
"your avatar is dirty."

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: geokills]
    #2129937 -

All I'mna say is, thanks for taking down that stupid ass picture. :thumbup: 


--------------------
"Shmokin' weed, Shmokin' wizz, doin' coke, drinkin' beers.  Drinkin' beers beers beers, rollin' fatties, smokin' blunts.  Who smokes tha blunts?  We smoke the blunts" - Jay and Silent Bob strike Back

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: LiquidSmoke]
    #2129970 -

:razz:
 


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┼ ··∙   long live the shroomery  ∙·· ┼
...╬π╥ ╥π╬...

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: ]
    #2129998 -

damn...some of you guys get REAL into all this crap.  if you could just step back and see yourselves, it's all quite funny.

enough i say :laugh:


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Real botanists laugh at HPS systems, we do however use high pressure sodium in the parking lot. - artthug

Edited by felix (11/23/03 02:15 AM)

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: felix]
    #2130003 -

agreed


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┼ ··∙   long live the shroomery  ∙·· ┼
...╬π╥ ╥π╬...

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Re: Flawed Experiment [Re: 40oz]
    #2130221 -

- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -

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