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Registered: 01/14/03
Posts: 1,270
Loc: outta here
PBS documentary: Truth, War & Consequences
    #2000926 - 10/11/03 08:08 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

I thought some of you might be interested in this PBS documentary called Truth, war & consequences.




Did America rush into a war in Iraq for which it was unprepared? Could the current volatility in Iraq have been prevented? And was the White House's rationale for war based on faulty and exaggerated intelligence reports?

As the Bush administration faces continuing questions about its failure to secure peace in Iraq, FRONTLINE takes an in-depth, behind-the-scenes look at what some government officials say is the underlying cause of America's current problems in Iraq: the prewar political infighting among the Pentagon, State Department, and White House that hampered U.S. efforts to plan for an orderly postwar transition.

In "Truth, War and Consequences," FRONTLINE producer and correspondent Martin Smith examines why the U.S. went to war in Iraq, what went wrong in the planning for the postwar occupation, and what is at stake for both the U.S. and for Iraqis. In interviews with key players in Baghdad and Washington, Smith probes the fierce internal debate between the Pentagon and the State Department over the intelligence justifying the war and over the shape of post-Saddam Iraq. It was a debate, some officials and observers say, that bogged down America's prewar planning and distracted officials from the crucial business of preparing for postwar reconstruction.

You can watch this online using realplayer or windows media player. If you have a program like ASFrecorder then you can stream the files to your HDD (I can post direct links if needed).

The above is an extract from my fictional novel, "The random postings of Edame".

In the beginning was the word. And man could not handle the word, and the hearing of the word, and he asked God to take away his ears so that he might live in peace without having to hear words which might upset his equinamity or corrupt the unblemished purity of his conscience.

And God, hearing this desperate plea from His creation, wrinkled His mighty brow for a moment and then leaned down toward man, beckoning that he should come close so as to hear all that was about to be revealed to him.

"Fuck you," He whispered, and frowned upon the pathetic supplicant before retreating to His heavens.

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Registered: 09/25/00
Posts: 2,276
Re: PBS documentary: Truth, War & Consequences [Re: Edame]
    #2001029 - 10/11/03 09:11 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

from andrewsullivan.com:

FRONTLINE CONCEDES: Here's a fascinating encounter with the producer of the Frontline special on the war against Saddam, Martin Smith. It's from the Washington Post's online chat today:


Boston, Mass: Why did Martin Smith at least twice say while conducting an interview in the program that "Americans were sold this war as an imminent threat..." That is a bold face lie, an untruth from beginning to end. In President Bush's state of the union speech, he specifically countered that argument by in essence saying we cannot afford to wait until the threat from Iraq is imminent. For a program with Truth in it's title, that's a big slip up and I heard Mr. Smith say it at least twice.

Martin Smith: I'm glad you asked this question. I believe I may have used the term "imminent threat" more than twice. If you go back to the records you will see that while the president does not use the exact phrase, he talks about a "grave and gathering danger." He talks about Saddam's ability to launch chemical or biological weapons in 45 minutes.

No one that I spoke to in the administration who supported the war quibbled with the use of the term "imminent threat." It's simply not a quotation - it's a summary of the president's assessment.

Boston, Mass: No, Martin: it's a bold face lie, an untruth from beginning to end.

Good for you, Mr Boston. What we see here is that Smith has interpreted what the administration said before the war to be an "imminent threat." But the only time I know of that the exact phrase was used was in president Bush's critical State of the Union address before the war. And in that speech, this is what Bush said:

"Some have said we must not act until the threat is imminent. Since when have terrorists and tyrants announced their intentions, politely putting us on notice before they strike? If this threat is permitted to fully and suddenly emerge, all actions, all words, and all recriminations would come too late. Trusting in the sanity and restraint of Saddam Hussein is not a strategy, and it is not an option."

Yes, that is a "grave and gathering danger." But it is not "imminent." In fact, it specifically makes a distinction that Smith's propaganda elides. Think I'm as biased as Smith? Here's how the leading anti-war Democrat - yes, Howard Dean - described Bush's position on September 29, 2002: "The president has never said that Saddam has the capability of striking the United States with atomic or biological weapons any time in the immediate future." I would say that "any time in the immediate future" is as good a definition as any of the word "imminent." So was even Howard Dean spinning for Bush? Of course not. He was summing up the simple truth. Smith is distorting the historical record to make a fake case against the administration. Perhaps it was intentional; perhaps he was just so blinded by liberal bias he even believed his own untruths. But this time, he's been caught.

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Minister to the Damned
Male Arcade Champion: Frogger

Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,744
Loc: space
Re: PBS documentary: Truth, War & Consequences [Re: wingnutx]
    #2001037 - 10/11/03 09:17 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

I saw this special. The stuff about INC was pretty interesting. I hadnt done a lot of research on that.

Deep in the heart of Central Texas
lurks a Doktor
SM tool
Native Dallas brick-chopper...

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Registered: 09/25/00
Posts: 2,276
Re: PBS documentary: Truth, War & Consequences [Re: Edame]
    #2001100 - 10/11/03 09:59 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Thanks for the link, btw :smile:

I'm not suprised that Martin Smith's guide Kanan Makia said that, "The enemies of a democracy in Iraq lay in the US State Department" and "the state department and the cia have consistently thwarted the president's genuine attempt to do something very dramatic in this country"

Anyone who follows the state department even casually could have told you that.

Edited by wingnutx (10/11/03 10:14 PM)

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Re: PBS documentary: Truth, War & Consequences [Re: Edame]
    #2001169 - 10/11/03 10:32 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

thanks for posting that.

Ahmad Chalabi seems like real shady dude.

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Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: PBS documentary: Truth, War & Consequences [Re: wingnutx]
    #2001770 - 10/12/03 03:40 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Good for you, Mr Boston. What we see here is that Smith has interpreted what the administration said before the war to be an "imminent threat."

Was the attack [9/11] then an imminent threat two, three, or six months before? When did the attack on September 11th become an imminent threat, when was it sufficiently dangerous? Now transport yourself forward... if Saddam Hussein were to take his weapons of mass destruction and transfer them, or use them himself, or transfer them to the al Qaeda, and some of the al Qaeda were to engage in an attack on the United States or on U.S. forces overseas with weapons of mass destruction, when is it such an immediate threat that you must do something?

- Donald Rumsfeld

"No terrorist state poses a greater and more immediate threat to the security of our people and the stability of the world than the regime of Saddam Hussein"

- Donald Rumsfield

?Some have argued that the nuclear threat from Iraq is not imminent -- that Saddam is at least 5-7 years away from having nuclear weapons,? Rumsfeld testified before the committee, a transcript of which can be found at http://www.useu.be/Categories/GlobalAffairs/Sept1802RumsfeldIraqDisarmament.html .

?I would not be so certain? He has, at this moment, stockpiles chemical and biological weapons, and is pursuing nuclear weapons.?

White House press briefing, May 7, 2003:

Q Well, we went to war, didn't we, to find these -- because we said that these weapons were a direct and imminent threat to the United States? Isn't that true?

MR. FLEISCHER: Absolutely. One of the reasons that we went to war was because of their possession of weapons of mass destruction. And nothing has changed on that front at all. We said what we said because we meant it. We had the intelligence to report it. Secretary Powell said it. And I may point out to you, as you may know, there is a news conference at Department of Defense today at 2:00 p.m. to discuss one element in this.
And so we have always had confidence, we continue to have confidence that WMD will be found. He's had a long period of time to hide what he has in a variety of different places, and there is a whole protocol of the search that is underway, that is being conducted in a very methodical fashion.

White House press briefing Oct. 17, 2002:

Q Ari, the President has been saying that the threat from Iraq is imminent, that we have to act now to disarm the country of its weapons of mass destruction, and that it has to allow the U.N. inspectors in, unfettered, no conditions, so forth.


Don't worry, B. Caapi

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Ganja Goddess

Registered: 02/13/99
Posts: 1,617
Re: PBS documentary: Truth, War & Consequences [Re: ]
    #2001795 - 10/12/03 03:50 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

You know who is even scarier then Chalabi?

Muqtada al-Sadr

I find it particularly chilling since the Shi'ites have just declared an Islamic state in Iraq.


Chalabi was just a liar, this guy is much more insidious.


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