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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Pedophilia
    #1933283 - 09/19/03 07:19 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Suppose an adult has a sexual relationship with a child, and it's entirely consensual. And suppose that new studies reveal that such a relationship causes no physical or psychological damage to the child. They both consent and both come away from it feeling loved, and positive. Would this be morally wrong? Explain.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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InvisibleZero7a1
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Re: Pedophilia [Re: silversoul7]
    #1933304 - 09/19/03 07:28 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

yes. You have to take into consideration the age difference, motives, experience. Would you want to have sex with a 40 year old man :oogle: :shake:? I didnt think so. Even if a kid thought they wanted to, their experience is so limited they might not have that knowledge to make a intelligable decision. A lot of people go through there lives thinking that the things they did in childhood with other people are okay, they think everything is fine, but i bet more than anything these people have some issues just crawling all over their subconcious. But then again i guess it wasnt too bad for 40 year old men to have sex and marry 15 year old girls. Seemed to be a pretty regular thing from what i understand. But to me people have gotten smarter, and so the age gaps have kind of recessed, and we can stay within our age realms. IT gives us a sense of group/peer identity. Maybe a core essential for the development of a new generation. Personally if i was 12 years old, or 13  years old i think it might have been cool to bang a milf. But in all honesty i think it would have been kind of gross, and given me weird ass vibes. Maybe even scarring.  Maybe thats why we have so many fucked up problems no adays, with people and sex. People are just FUCKED UP!!


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Pedophilia [Re: Zero7a1]
    #1933325 - 09/19/03 07:36 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Zero7a1 said:
yes. You have to take into consideration the age difference, motives, experience. Would you want to have sex with a 40 year old man :oogle: :shake:?



I wouldn't, but some people would, and what's wrong with that?

Quote:

Even if a kid thought they wanted to, their experience is so limited they might not have that knowledge to make a intelligable decision.



You mention experience, but everyone is inexperienced until they've experienced sex, so that doesn't really hold up.  A 30-year-old could likely take advantage of an 18-year-old virgin just as easily.

Quote:

A lot of people go through there lives thinking that the things they did in childhood with other people are okay, they think everything is fine, but i bet more than anything these people have some issues just crawling all over their subconcious.



Who doesn't have issues?  And more importantly, who's to say these issues don't have more to do with society's level of acceptance for such activities?

Quote:

But then again i guess it wasnt too bad for 40 year old men to have sex and marry 15 year old girls. Seemed to be a pretty regular thing from what i understand. But to me people have gotten smarter, and so the age gaps have kind of recessed, and we can stay within our age realms.



Why is it smarter.  Times have changed, but you assume there is a good reason for it.  That's classic ethnocentrism.  Show me why it's better the way we have it now.

Quote:

IT gives us a sense of group/peer identity. Maybe a core essential for the development of a new generation. Personally if i was 12 years old, or 13  years old i think it might have been cool to bang a milf. But in all honesty i think it would have been kind of gross, and given me weird ass vibes. Maybe even scarring.  Maybe thats why we have so many fucked up problems no adays, with people and sex. People are just FUCKED UP!! 



Again, how do you know that people having such problems doesn't have more to do with society's level of acceptance?


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OfflineGasoline15
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Re: Pedophilia [Re: silversoul7]
    #1933363 - 09/19/03 07:50 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Wow,thats a tought one...

IF such a case as you explained silversoul existed,it would have been a good thing,absolutly.
However,the extreme case of that,sex with a 4 year old,the 4 year old is not smart enought to make that decision,and I am against that.
There has to be an age limit somewhere,although I myself am a 15 year old,I have to say age is a pretty shitty way to judge maturity,but it's the quickest most precise way we can think of on a dime,so we accept it!
18 is entirely too far up there,I think about 16 or so,depending on the circumstances really.
Given the proper circumstances like you described,I would say 12 and older is an acceptable age.
Asfar as Societies acceptance of fetishes like pedophilia,we tend to over generalise,we immedietlly think it's rape,and it just might not be.
For instance,alot of people assume that BDSM 'folks are equivalent to rapists cause there fantasies are often very violent in nature,but a pretty fair ammount of the time it was a group decision.


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"Wanted it anyway,
Public display of affection,
burnt out on the sidewalk,
feelings in hindsight"
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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: Pedophilia [Re: Gasoline15]
    #1933569 - 09/19/03 09:34 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

tsk tsk..you can kiss your account good-bye now, mr 15 yr old...
now you know what NOT to say when you come back under another alias :wink:


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: Pedophilia [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #1933583 - 09/19/03 09:40 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

well, when I was 16, all the girls my age were going out with college age guys.

Now that I am college age, I feel that high school girls are my right :smile:

Besides, young, pretty women's standards these days are so high that it probably wont be till I'm 40 that I can afford one :wink:


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Invisiblenofind_um
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Re: Pedophilia [Re: DoctorJ]
    #1933586 - 09/19/03 09:42 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

I would settle for a college freshman or even sophomore,,, oh hell give me a senior,,,


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OfflineSpokesman
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Re: Pedophilia [Re: nofind_um]
    #1933605 - 09/19/03 09:51 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

You have to consider that the adult is taking advantege of the child's ignorence. The child most likley doesent fully understand the concept of sex and all the risks involved. Belive me, sex at a very early age has a tremendous Psychological effect in the future and no Moral adult should take advantage of the young ones ignorence, JUST FIND SOMETHING YOUR AGE, Its not that hard and if it was theirs a million other things you can do better than consider taking a young one's offer for sex, even if you somehow think "love" is there. Blowup doll's seem to have entered the mainstreem these days, :lol:


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OfflineTao
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Re: Pedophilia [Re: Spokesman]
    #1933727 - 09/19/03 11:08 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Excellent question and a tough one. In a way, I think that a lot of our problem with that kind of sex just has to do with societal practices and acceptance. Obviously we don't have to go that far back (or in some cases, that far away) to find where the society seems to have no problem with age differences that our society would find abhorrent. In greek times, it was perfectly acceptable, in fact often the practice for the younger partner to learn from the older partner and the older received sex with a youth. It was a trade off and both parties felt the came out the better. Of course both partners were usually men, but thats a whole other issue...

yet i also see that our society often downplays the effects of sex, especially in popular culture. It can be argued that this really is due to the fact that sex sells, whether to pre-teens or middle aged people and youthful sex sells even better. You see it all over ads, story lines, music, etc. They make it seem as if meaningless, purely physical sex is almost the norm. Although I know they must exist, i have never that a sexual experience that did not have consequences for me or the other person in the future. Its not hard to see that younger people have a much harder time seeing consequences and effects of their actions. It is because of this that we have these laws for minors because they are not fully rational and so, in fear of the potential negative consequences which are much more than that implied by the media, we do away with it all.
I am sure that it is possible for a situation like yours to occur but the likelihood I believe is so small that it makes a lot more sense to have these statuatory limits laws.


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InvisibleLazerouth
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Re: Pedophilia [Re: Tao]
    #1933898 - 09/20/03 12:10 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

"if theirs grass on the field play ball."

err i wont rant or anythin but real younguns just arent emotionally equipped to handle that shit. even if its a mutual thing it makes no difference. i did alot of shit when i was little that seemed great but was stupid as fuck in retrospect. buuut i dont see any problem at all if she's 16


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Pedophilia [Re: silversoul7]
    #1933983 - 09/20/03 12:36 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Really, the answer is pretty simple; of course it would be okay.

The thing is, pedophilia is probably THE biggest taboo in society today, and there are some good reasons for that.

Because of the taboo, most people find it difficult to even conceive (or admit to conceiving) that there may be certain occasions when it is okay.

There was a thread in a different forum on a similar topic, where I stated that pedophiles shouldn't be treated as criminals, but as people suffering from a disease. Imagine only having an attraction to children; I can't think of a more isolating and crushing affliction. There were a few people who attacked me as if I was promoting the idea of sex with children, which just goes to show how unwilling people are to analyse their ideas on pedophilia.

A consensual and healthy sexual relationship with a child may be possible, but it's certainly a rare occurance. The vast majority are the result of an abuse of power.



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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Pedophilia [Re: Gasoline15]
    #1934111 - 09/20/03 01:55 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

I've been a crisis intervention counselor at the middle school level for 17 years now. You are wrong on every statement, and have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. I suggest you just listen and learn for the next 5-10 years before you pontificate. Since you are years away from having any sense of proportion, or responsibility or adult understanding, you also have zero clue as to the permanent developmental damage to child-adult sexual victimization. Notice how I don't say sexual relationship. I have worked with a 12 year old mother who planned her pregnancy and puked morning sickness into a zip-lock bag in middle school class every day. I have worked with a teacher who still works in a middle school - unbusted - who deflowered his emotionally needy 15 year old student in the back of a crappy car. I have taken sexual abuse reports from girls whose alleged perp was eventually busted for sleeping with his 13 year old student, turned down a plea bargain for a 5 year term for a jury trial, and received 35 years in prison. I used to be buds with this guy. I have lots of sad stories of ruined lives. Many promiscuous girls are rape or incest victims. The age of sexual consent is 16 in Florida, but not with caregivers like teachers, counselors, guardians, etc. Sex, before emotional maturity has developed simply colors sex wrongly - for life.


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Anonymous

Re: Pedophilia [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #1934118 - 09/20/03 01:58 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

tsk tsk..you can kiss your account good-bye now, mr 15 yr old...
now you know what NOT to say when you come back under another alias

Oops, there's an age limit on this forum?.....Oh..uh..oh..nevermind...


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Invisiblechunder
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Re: Pedophilia [Re: ]
    #1934310 - 09/20/03 03:03 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

If nature didn't mean for me to stare at that hot 13 year old, then nature wouldn't have made her hot to begin with!


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Offlinepurenergy
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Re: Pedophilia [Re: chunder]
    #1934328 - 09/20/03 03:17 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

13yrs? i dunno man, im 21 n sometimes look at 16 year olds...any younger than that...forget it. n even at 16 its VERY iffy depending on the maturity of the girl, n even then id think 2ce. simplt put:r u willing to go to jail for puss puss? im not


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one has lived from an endless past and will live into an endless future. at this very moment one partakes of Eternal Life-blissful, luminous, pure.


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OfflineTao
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Re: Pedophilia [Re: purenergy]
    #1934361 - 09/20/03 03:31 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

i dont think he's talking about actually acting on it. but in a way i think its stupid how if an 21 year old were to say a 13 year old girl was hot or good looking, someone (esp a peer girl) would lambast them for being 'sick and wrong.' why DO we have that inclination? why do we have these celebrities with 13-year old girl bodies (christina aguilera for example) and remember when 15 or 16 year old britney spears was the sex talk of the nation?

i of course accept what Markos said and agree you have to have laws against it, but there sometimes i think there's a chilling effect on the subject to too far a degree.


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Anonymous

Re: Pedophilia [Re: silversoul7]
    #1934510 - 09/20/03 04:23 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

suppose you have a child of your own. now, imagine an adult having sex with your child. my point is made.


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OfflineFunguy
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Re: Pedophilia [Re: DoseR]
    #1934994 - 09/20/03 08:55 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Look at out society though, we have 13 year old girls dressing and acting like they are 18. And many of them will lie about their age as well. So they could possibly get many guys in oodles of trouble. Our societies way of thinking has gotten preteen girls to grow up physically, but not emotionally. This is the biggest problem, the emotional stress.


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Anonymous

Re: Pedophilia [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #1935096 - 09/20/03 11:14 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
I've been a crisis intervention counselor at the middle school level for 17 years now. You are wrong on every statement, and have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. I suggest you just listen and learn for the next 5-10 years before you pontificate. Since you are years away from having any sense of proportion, or responsibility or adult understanding, you also have zero clue as to the permanent developmental damage to child-adult sexual victimization. Notice how I don't say sexual relationship. I have worked with a 12 year old mother who planned her pregnancy and puked morning sickness into a zip-lock bag in middle school class every day. I have worked with a teacher who still works in a middle school - unbusted - who deflowered his emotionally needy 15 year old student in the back of a crappy car. I have taken sexual abuse reports from girls whose alleged perp was eventually busted for sleeping with his 13 year old student, turned down a plea bargain for a 5 year term for a jury trial, and received 35 years in prison. I used to be buds with this guy. I have lots of sad stories of ruined lives. Many promiscuous girls are rape or incest victims. The age of sexual consent is 16 in Florida, but not with caregivers like teachers, counselors, guardians, etc. Sex, before emotional maturity has developed simply colors sex wrongly - for life.




Well said. Of course this break down in societal mores has been predicted for some time. The same man who fought to have homosexuality removed from the DSM has been fighting for the same thing for pedophilia. It just makes me sick.

I think the answer to this question has to do with the definition of "consensual".

These days there are 3 year olds with pubic hair.


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Anonymous

Re: Pedophilia [Re: silversoul7]
    #1935099 - 09/20/03 11:15 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
Suppose an adult has a sexual relationship with a child, and it's entirely consensual.  And suppose that new studies reveal that such a relationship causes no physical or psychological damage to the child.  They both consent and both come away from it feeling loved, and positive.  Would this be morally wrong?  Explain. 




And by the way, the new studies are flawed.

:thumbdown: 


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