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InvisibleIcelander
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Is this sexual abuse?
    #4200072 - 05/20/05 04:42 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

When I was a child something happened between my parents that was never talked about, they never slept in the same room again.

After I reached puberty my father never touched me. He was a Deacon in the Baptist church. I was told that sex outside of marriage was a sin. I was told that masturbation was a sin. I was told that sexual thoughts were sinful and I was evil if I had them. He never once told me he loved me. Never told me I was a good boy or the feelings I had were healthy. Never even put his hand on my shoulder. I grew up afraid of all the sexual feelings I had, I felt all my physical/sexual feelings were evil. Sex scared me. I was always sure people would see that I was evil and unloveable. I was afraid of everyone and I had anxiety problems.

What do you all think?

I hated my father for many years. When I used psychedelics I was shown for the first time I was not evil and my sexual feelings were healthy. Still it's been some struggle to completely erase that early programming. I am not done yet. :heart: Do you know what it's like to hate your father? The one who brought you into this life and was supposed to care for you and love you?

I have finally forgiven my father. Psychedelics also showed me that, that hatred was killing me. Now I wish him well, healing, and love. He is eigthty six. I know he treated me the way he did because his father did the same to him. He did the best he could, but it wasn't good enough. :heart: :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlineegghead1
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Registered: 03/02/05
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Re: Is this sexual abuse? [Re: Icelander]
    #4200086 - 05/20/05 04:45 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

That is  in my humble opinion, neglect and abuse. Im sorry to hear about that man, much love to ya for overcomming that shit :frown: :heart:


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InvisibleVeritas
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Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,088
Re: Is this sexual abuse? [Re: Icelander]
    #4200126 - 05/20/05 04:51 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

The resilience of human beings never ceases to amaze and delight me.  :heartpump:


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Registered: 02/01/05
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Re: Is this sexual abuse? [Re: Icelander]
    #4200499 - 05/20/05 06:13 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
When I was a child something happened between my parents that was never talked about, they never slept in the same room again.

After I reached puberty my father never touched me. He was a Deacon in the Baptist church. I was told that sex outside of marriage was a sin. I was told that masturbation was a sin. I was told that sexual thoughts were sinful and I was evil if I had them. He never once told me he loved me. Never told me I was a good boy or the feelings I had were healthy. Never even put his hand on my shoulder. I grew up afraid of all the sexual feelings I had, I felt all my physical/sexual feelings were evil. Sex scared me. I was always sure people would see that I was evil and unloveable. I was afraid of everyone and I had anxiety problems.

What do you all think?

I hated my father for many years. When I used psychedelics I was shown for the first time I was not evil and my sexual feelings were healthy. Still it's been some struggle to completely erase that early programming. I am not done yet. :heart: Do you know what it's like to hate your father? The one who brought you into this life and was supposed to care for you and love you?

I have finally forgiven my father. Psychedelics also showed me that, that hatred was killing me. Now I wish him well, healing, and love. He is eigthty six. I know he treated me the way he did because his father did the same to him. He did the best he could, but it wasn't good enough. :heart: :mushroom2:




now I see why this forum is so against christianity, it's simple payback


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Is this sexual abuse? [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4200539 - 05/20/05 06:25 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

:rolleyes:

I wasn't raised as a Christian or a Jew, yet I still dislike the Judeo-Christian religions.

Nice straw-man argument though. Obviously, people don't dislike Christianity because of legitimate reasons illustrated both in the Bible and throughout history, but rather you'd argue it's because they've had bad encounters with Christians? Weak. I've had bad encounters with atheists, yet I still wholeheartedly support it.


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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OfflineAdviapacis
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Re: Is this sexual abuse? [Re: Icelander]
    #4200552 - 05/20/05 06:33 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

That's not sexual abuse by any stretch of the imagination. It's one hell of a fucked up way to raise a child though, more like neglect for the emotional development of a child. Simply, bad parenting.


--------------------
Respect my authority!


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Is this sexual abuse? [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4200567 - 05/20/05 06:35 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

If this forum is against Christanity, it's not all my fault. :grin:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Is this sexual abuse? [Re: Ravus]
    #4200571 - 05/20/05 06:36 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

And what is there in new testament that is to dislike exept the possibility that it is a lie?


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Is this sexual abuse? [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4200574 - 05/20/05 06:37 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

The handbook does not describe the practice.


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Is this sexual abuse? [Re: Veritas]
    #4200592 - 05/20/05 06:43 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

that is my argument..

the pure theory of christianity is words of Jesus, and only that, the practice of christianity is pedophilia and acceptance of old testament


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Is this sexual abuse? [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4200631 - 05/20/05 06:54 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Agreed!


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Offlinerecalcitrant
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Re: Is this sexual abuse? [Re: Icelander]
    #4201480 - 05/20/05 11:00 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I am discovering that I have a lot of resentment for how I was raised as well. \

My whole family is pretty fucking hardcore christian. My moms dad is a pastor, my dad taught at a bible college for a couple years, I was forced to go to church, etc.

My dad used a lot of subversive brainwashing techniques as part of his parenting style. My mom is a totally unpredictable lunatic. They are both completely self centered. I have recently given up all hopes of learning any life lessons from them. I am now trying to distance my identity from my parents, and hopefully I'll be able to be deprogrammed.

I have serious self image issues. I have personality issues that I have started exploring and hope to be able to disregard the bullshit beliefs with which I have been brainwashed and consider in opposition to how I want to be.

I wish my mind wasn't so cloudy. I wish I could really get into what I want to say about my childhood. Sometimes I want a professional to guide me through the minefield of childhood memories and help me to defuse parts of my psyche that are toxic to how I want to live now.

But all I have is you guys. A bunch of semi-anonymous electrical impulses with terrible spelling and worse grammar.

How sad.


--------------------

We have to answer our own prayers


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InvisibleVvellum
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Re: Is this sexual abuse? [Re: Icelander]
    #4201570 - 05/21/05 12:17 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

my father was the same way.

no affection
no friendliness
we never spoke.
he only offered criticism and mockery.

he was not christian - or anything
other than a capitalist. money and ownership and control
was all he desired.

he was emotional abusive - called us all names.

his father treated him the same way.

I believe I have broken the cycle - I do not fear sex or the body. I am not full of hatred. My heart is too warm for such negativity. I have learned to forgive him - we dont speak much, but I have no hatred. I dont like to be around him - if I were to ever have children, I would not introduce them to him - he would not deserve to be near their innocence and beauty.

I do wish he was a better human
but I cannot change him.


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OnlineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Is this sexual abuse? [Re: Icelander]
    #4201615 - 05/21/05 12:32 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Emotional abuse is difficult to prove, but that is really not the point. Your Father had serious emotional problems either as a result of unhealthy beliefs or becuause his emotional problems led him to a mistaken understanding of the ministry. You have apparently grown tremendously despite the damage done by your disturbed Father. I am sorry for your lack of healthy relationship with your Father as I am sorry about my own, and he died last August. Your case was more severe, given the guilt-fed religious dimension. Forgiveness is absolutely necessary for you to detach the bitterness, and you have discovered that already. Congratulations from the bottom of my heart! Your Father, like my own, was simply incapable of real intimacy - a tragedy to live an entire life that way - acting from a place of 'obligation,' of what is 'proper' or 'expected' or "the thing to do" (as my own brother has said, and he is a robotic lawyer). Detchment through Compassion: you have discerned the truth of the Buddhist as well as the Christian Way.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineQuantumMeltdown
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Re: Is this sexual abuse? *DELETED* [Re: Icelander]
    #4201779 - 05/21/05 01:19 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Post deleted by QuantumMeltdown

Reason for deletion: stupid flame



--------------------
-QuantumMeltdown

Total abstinence is so excellent a thing that it cannot be carried to too great an extent. In my passion for it I even carry it so far as to totally abstain from total abstinence itself.
  -Mark Twain

"The time has come the walrus said, little oysters  hide their heads, my Twain of thought is loosely bound I guess its time to Mark this down, Be good and you will be lonesome
Be lonesome and you will be free
Live a lie and you will live to regret it
That's what livin' is to me
That's what livin' is to me"
Jimmy Buffett


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Offlinecrunchytoast
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Re: Is this sexual abuse? [Re: QuantumMeltdown]
    #4201967 - 05/21/05 02:13 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

my parents are far from perfect
over the past year i hardly spoke with them, several months without,
the longest time ever between me and them
i felt empty. suffered without talking about it even with myself.
i imagine this must be what it's been like for icelander, but a longer period of time for him.. rough..

finally after drugs i let my isolation go
they're far from perfect but i love them. they have issues like, being really self-effacing. my mother especially on this one- and since women often treat their children as they treat themselves, well, you know..
(it didnt help things when i stopped going to church)
and i'm far from perfect myself because of stuff like that.

im aware of some of the effects of this sort of thing. i can change some of it. honestly drugs show me lots of things i hide from myself. or else just plain point me in the right direction without an explanation..

its an ongoing process though. there's tons im sure im not aware of.


--------------------
"consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger


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InvisibleTHE KRAT BARON
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Re: Is this sexual abuse? [Re: Icelander]
    #4202215 - 05/21/05 04:01 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

a


--------------------
m00nshine is currently vacationing in Maui. Rumor has it he got rolled by drunken natives and is currently prostituting himself in order to pay for airfare back to the mainland but he's having trouble juggling a hairon addiction. He won't be back for a long while.


Edited by matt (08/31/07 07:55 PM)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Is this sexual abuse? [Re: QuantumMeltdown]
    #4202781 - 05/21/05 10:53 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

QuantumMeltdown said:
Not a flame or anything but maybe this is why you made all those posts defending the right to fuck little boys?? Sometimes when one is not given the proper loving the needed they repress those feelings and have the need to act out on those feelings on those who are the same age that they didn't get that proper loving??




Quantum, Please read my posts in all my replys in the MAN/BOY thread and especially in the current Tolerance thread. You will see that I DO NOT advocate being a pedophile. Please also look up the definition of pedophile. I was talking about the fact that 18 years is an arbitrary age to say someone is adult. According to Hue a person who is 18 and having sex with a 17 year old is automatically a pedophile and child abuse. I didn't believe that was true. I wanted to explore that issue. If you read my posts you will see clearly that I never have advocated or defended anyone who abuses children. You just attacked me and never tried to understand where I was coming from. Thanks for not flaming.  :heart: :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Is this sexual abuse? [Re: Icelander]
    #4202864 - 05/21/05 11:45 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Your father was not sexually abusive by legal definition, but in reality was psychosexually abusive. Baptist minister, not sleeping with wife, lots of repression, anger and guilt. I can see why you hated your dad.

The lack of praise, encouragement, or intimacy was emotional abuse.

But, your father was typical of men of that era in being emotionally withdrawn. My father is the same way and only recently has opened up more. Growing up in the depression era of the 1930s when life was hard and then living through World War II reinforced that men need to be stoic, unemotional, tough, and never cry.

It is interesting that for even the worst kind of emotional abuse that parent's are virtually never prosecuted.

Physical abuse used to be the NORM in many families 50+ years ago and was virtually never prosecuted back then. Whippings to the point of bleeding with a "switch" were called discipline. Bare bottom spankings with a wooden paddle by the teacher in front of the class or back in the principal's office to really do it right.

Sexual abuse was also looked at differently and prosecuted less 50 years ago. People rarely believed the child in those days, mothers included. Or maybe the dad gave the girl a good bare bottom spanking for even bringing up such filthy lies about him (that were of course true). With mom calling her a liar as well, she then shut up and tolerated those late night visits from dad. The police weren't called or if they were they often sided with dad.


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


Edited by LunarEclipse (05/21/05 12:30 PM)


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OfflineQuantumMeltdown
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Re: Is this sexual abuse? [Re: Icelander]
    #4203043 - 05/21/05 01:01 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Sorry for hijacking you thread icelander I had no right to do so. I forgot that I wasn't in OTD. Im still just confused as to why you rated me 1 shroom telling me I needed a therapist after I attacked Ziddy's stance isn't that not advocating his position of the right to fuck little boys?


--------------------
-QuantumMeltdown

Total abstinence is so excellent a thing that it cannot be carried to too great an extent. In my passion for it I even carry it so far as to totally abstain from total abstinence itself.
  -Mark Twain

"The time has come the walrus said, little oysters  hide their heads, my Twain of thought is loosely bound I guess its time to Mark this down, Be good and you will be lonesome
Be lonesome and you will be free
Live a lie and you will live to regret it
That's what livin' is to me
That's what livin' is to me"
Jimmy Buffett


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