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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Art and Transhumanism * 1
    #19217178 -

Can art be considered or taken as a transhumanist activity? In my opinion yes.

In music one has to work within fractions of a second with various elements, expressed through multiple means. Physical dexterity is required and must be trained for the sake of timbre, clarity, accuracy and speed - all this includes various ornaments such as glissando and murkti. Then again there are the rhythmic aspects which can become extremely sophisticated depending on the musical system one is learning (Thaal, Jazz or Classical rhythm being examples), more sophisticated rhythms exponentiate the difficult of performance. We have harmony in certain musical systems, just as vast and potentially complicating as rhythm, again exponentiating the difficulty. Tone leading and melodic rules. Scales and modes. Temperment. Counterpoint (which can extend to playing multiple instruments at once, often three or more).

With poetry we're forced to steep into the subtle moods expressed, the nuisance between one word and the next, as well as the overall context of the piece. From haiku to epics and lyrics, there are many angles to work on in the human psyche. It's been said (wish I could directly quote this) that language is at the center of the individual psyche, our entire perception being composed of the language that we use, from the way we define words to how we structure our sentences. Poetry then is working on our very perception.

Is art a transhumanist activity? Why or why not?

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Re: Art and Transhumanism [Re: Repertoire89]
    #19230209 -

I agree to an extent, although I think it's important to define what you mean by 'transhumanist' - which to me conjures a more technocentric and scientific definition. To me, art is more about an emotionally profound acknowledgement and appreciation of the beauty of perception - The original religion, without the hierarchies. The technical aspects of it certainly warrant a great deal of analysis and refinement, but given our long history of practicing 'art', I think it could be considered one of the defining characteristics of being 'human', rather than something beyond it (even if what we're trying to express is beyond us, we're still human while trying to express it).


What is interesting however, is art while on drugs. I'm sure all of us have had some truly magical journeys while listening to music or have had the essense of poetry revealed, under the influence of psychedelics. How certain chemicals augment the appreciation and awareness of art, and what the limit of that is, I'd consider more in the realm of 'transhumanism'.

Edited by presentusthefuture (12/05/13 07:52 AM)

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Re: Art and Transhumanism [Re: presentusthefuture]
    #19230440 -

Artistic symbolic expression is one of the most quintessentially human abilities that we have. In fact I'd argue it's actually part of what makes us human.  While I agree that the feat of creating art is very impressive, the word transhuman implies something more than an ordinary person is capable of.

Edit:  Transhuman art would use senses that people don't have yet, or frequencies we are unable to perceive naturally.

Edited by Mr Person (12/05/13 02:26 PM)

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Re: Art and Transhumanism [Re: Mr Person]
    #19231398 -

I sold 4 paintings off the internet today
One customer is picking up 3 tonight
and another is sending the money order from california today
woohee!!

that does not happen every day. but it cheers me up while I am back on the jobhunt.

I am kind of transcreative, i.e. software and drawings/paintings.
but only barely human according to icelander.
so I am not sure about the transhuman part in the art.


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Art and Transhumanism [Re: redgreenvines]
    #19231495 -

You got me all wrong there. You are very human. Totally commonly human, wormingly human.  I'm glad you sold something and can buy your woman that diamond tiara she's been needing.

Hey if you're ever out this way I have leaves that need raking. I'll pay you $20 an hour if you are a steady worker.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Art and Transhumanism [Re: Icelander]
    #19231829 -

ice, I don't rake, I trans-rake, or co-rake, so if we rake, we rake together you can keep the 20 million bucks.


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Art and Transhumanism [Re: presentusthefuture]
    #19231865 -

presentusthefuture said:
I agree to an extent, although I think it's important to define what you mean by 'transhumanist' - which to me conjures a more technocentric and scientific definition. To me, art is more about an emotionally profound acknowledgement and appreciation of the beauty of perception - The original religion, without the hierarchies. The technical aspects of it certainly warrant a great deal of analysis and refinement, but given our long history of practicing 'art', I think it could be considered one of the defining characteristics of being 'human', rather than something beyond it (even if what we're trying to express is beyond us, we're still human while trying to express it).


What is interesting however, is art while on drugs. I'm sure all of us have had some truly magical journeys while listening to music or have had the essense of poetry revealed, under the influence of psychedelics. How certain chemicals augment the appreciation and awareness of art, and what the limit of that is, I'd consider more in the realm of 'transhumanism'.


Well man I left the word undefined intentionally, figured for a topic like this it would have to be worked over.

Meant to include this in the OP, but the idea which was running through my head concerning art and transhumanism was the effects that the practice has on the individual. From preventing Alzheimers to general cognitive facilities. Personally I consider this to be outside of general human nature, few people by ratio practice an art regularly and so the benefits of being an artist are unique amongst the masses of our species.
Whatever is being expressed comes from a state of mind alien to the majority, they relate to it vicariously but do not embody it anymore than one can watch Bourne Identity and relate to the absurd violence (etc).

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Re: Art and Transhumanism [Re: Repertoire89]
    #19231986 -

I am a musician. The best kind of art (any art not just music) comes from that "place" (or state of mind as repertoire89 said) alien to many. That special place is alien to me sometimes, when i lose focus. Its funny because that focus, for me, is a trance kind of... Where im not thinking of anything just flowing. Same place i go when deep in a trip, or meditating, or even daydreaming.

The best art does come from that special place...is that transhumanist? Im not sure...my vocabulary sucks and i briefly looked up the definition which was a little confusing.

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Re: Art and Transhumanism [Re: Icelander]
    #19232000 -

I'll rake your yard for free iceman :cool:

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Re: Art and Transhumanism [Re: Repertoire89]
    #19232146 -

Repertoire89 said:
Meant to include this in the OP, but the idea which was running through my head concerning art and transhumanism was the effects that the practice has on the individual. From preventing Alzheimers to general cognitive facilities. Personally I consider this to be outside of general human nature, few people by ratio practice an art regularly and so the benefits of being an artist are unique amongst the masses of our species.
Whatever is being expressed comes from a state of mind alien to the majority, they relate to it vicariously but do not embody it anymore than one can watch Bourne Identity and relate to the absurd violence (etc).


Just because a minority of people are artists does not mean that it's outside of human nature. If you took any baby and trained it from birth to be an artist, it would be capable of making great art.

And which exact mental benefits of making art are unique to artists?  I would argue that any mentally stimulating activity that induces a flow state would lead to similar results.

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Re: Art and Transhumanism [Re: redgreenvines]
    #19232910 -

redgreenvines said:
ice, I don't rake, I trans-rake, or co-rake, so if we rake, we rake together you can keep the 20 million bucks.


I'm not even worth a million anymore. :sad:  I spend too much.  But I'm hoping to inherit more in a few years.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Art and Transhumanism [Re: Mr Person]
    #19232951 -

Mr Person said:
If you took any baby and trained it from birth to be an artist, it would be capable of making great art.


Source? Either way it doesn't matter, anyone could be made cybernetic and that pertains not at all to transhumanism.



Quote:
And which exact mental benefits of making art are unique to artists?  I would argue that any mentally stimulating activity that induces a flow state would lead to similar results.


There's an abundance of information on this online, and there are many more aspects to music than crochet, cooking or a thousand other activities which require concentration. As far as art in general I don't think there's much more to many arts than a mundane activity, outside of aesthetics. Poetry is emotional expression through language, through poetry one works with perception in a way unique unto itself.

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/258383.php

Attempts at equating mundane activity with art is one of the primary reasons for my misanthropy, sometimes I forget that. Thank you for reminding me.

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Re: Art and Transhumanism [Re: Icelander]
    #19232966 -

Quote:
But I'm hoping to inherit more in a few years.


You can only 'off' so many relatives until The Authorities become suspicious. Fair warning!


--------------------

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Re: Art and Transhumanism [Re: Universaleyeni]
    #19232977 -

Universaleyeni said:
I am a musician. The best kind of art (any art not just music) comes from that "place" (or state of mind as repertoire89 said) alien to many. That special place is alien to me sometimes, when i lose focus. Its funny because that focus, for me, is a trance kind of... Where im not thinking of anything just flowing. Same place i go when deep in a trip, or meditating, or even daydreaming.

The best art does come from that special place...is that transhumanist? Im not sure...my vocabulary sucks and i briefly looked up the definition which was a little confusing.


Transhumanism is to my understanding, evolving further through artificial means.

Not sure how I would describe the musical experience but its definitely not the same for me as tripping, meditating or daydreaming. Can't really comment further

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Re: Art and Transhumanism [Re: Icelander]
    #19233046 -

Icelander said:
redgreenvines said:
ice, I don't rake, I trans-rake, or co-rake, so if we rake, we rake together you can keep the 20 million bucks.


I'm not even worth a million anymore. :sad:  I spend too much.  But I'm hoping to inherit more in a few years.


ahh... you believe in free will - eventually


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Art and Transhumanism [Re: Repertoire89]
    #19233083 -

Quote:
Transhumanism is to my understanding, evolving further through artificial means.



In this case, i dont think art is transhumanist. Its not artificial imo :gd_icon:

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Re: Art and Transhumanism [Re: Universaleyeni]
    #19233280 -

Universaleyeni said:
Quote:
Transhumanism is to my understanding, evolving further through artificial means.



In this case, i dont think art is transhumanist. Its not artificial imo :gd_icon:


:hmm:

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Re: Art and Transhumanism [Re: Repertoire89]
    #19233393 -

Repertoire89 said:
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/258383.php


This says that listening to music has the same benefits as playing.  If consumers of art get the same benefits as producers, then I think the vast majority of the population would meet that definition of an "artist".

Quote:
Either way it doesn't matter, anyone could be made cybernetic and that pertains not at all to transhumanism.

Transhumanism is to my understanding, evolving further through artificial means.

There's an abundance of information on this online, and there are many more aspects to music than crochet, cooking or a thousand other activities which require concentration.



Now you are just throwing words around. Let's establish some baseline assumptions. Transhuman is simply a transitional state between human and posthuman; "a hypothetical future being 'whose basic capacities so radically exceed those of present humans as to be no longer unambiguously human by our current standards.'" It doesn't really have anything to do with poetry as we know it. 

Flow is not a synonym of "concentration".  It is concentration, yes, but there are also elements of joy and self-improvement.  "Flow experiences imply a growth principle. When one is in a flow state, he or she is working to master the activity at hand. To maintain that flow state, one must seek increasingly greater challenges. Attempting these new, difficult challenges stretches one's skills. One emerges from such a flow experience with a bit of personal growth and great feelings of competence and efficacy."  These are not mundane activities for people who attain flow states from doing them. It's rather arrogant to assume that only your chosen flow activities qualify as art.

Quote:
Attempts at equating mundane activity with art is one of the primary reasons for my misanthropy, sometimes I forget that. Thank you for reminding me.


Ouch!  Sorry for disagreeing with you.  I like you Rep, so that hurts.  Honestly it sounds like you are trying to elevate your own chosen activities into some special snowflake transcendent experience.  I think they can be but I don't agree that "transhuman" is the word you are looking for, sorry.

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Re: Art and Transhumanism [Re: Repertoire89]
    #19235266 -

cool thread Repertoire.. i take away from it that the idea of transhumansism and the fear or discomfort associated is nothing new and individuals have pushed themselves into much weirder territories than we can imagine..

i like the idea how being a human and aquiring a skill is something learnt and 'unnatural' and so to be human is to be inhuman :willynilly:

we are all freaks tbh


--------------------
dripping with fantasy

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Re: Art and Transhumanism [Re: Mr Person]
    #19238766 -

Mr Person said:
Quote:
Attempts at equating mundane activity with art is one of the primary reasons for my misanthropy, sometimes I forget that. Thank you for reminding me.


Ouch!  Sorry for disagreeing with you.  I like you Rep, so that hurts.  Honestly it sounds like you are trying to elevate your own chosen activities into some special snowflake transcendent experience.  I think they can be but I don't agree that "transhuman" is the word you are looking for, sorry.


That wasn't personal, more of something the conversation reminded me of as a side note.
As far as music goes its hard to explain from my position, I've studied classical, indian classical, jazz, blues, american folk, west african folk, romanian folk and rock. Music from my perspective is not what an untrained ear perceives

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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