supernovasky said:

Awesome video. I found it a little weak and annoying at parts, but with some good video editing and a little better vocal editing (such as the numerous slips), it really could be a masterpiece. What's awesome is that the entire last half of that video, I have also focused on a lot in my writing. In fact, some of the very things he said, I also said in a post I wrote after a long LSD trip. I'll copy and paste it here

Quote:

The first thought that I have, is that everyone in this world already has experienced what it means NOT to live. For most of our existence in this universe, we have not existed in the form that we are in today. You and I both contain traces of the first biological organisms ever to occupy this earth, their death leading to our fertility. We both come from the dirt and rocks and air itself, pounded into a giant rock we call Earth, and formed from the minerals within it as well as the minerals smashed onto its surface. The elements that make us who we are today were forged in the heart of a massive star that went supernova, sending a light to galaxies and intelligent life-forms billions of light years away, saying "Hey! Heavy elements are here!" We come from hydrogen, which arose from a sea of energy. We all come from the same singularity, we were all one in the same at one point... and every part of you is the same as every part of me in origin.

So it seems silly to feel so much sorrow when the temporary collection of elements that make us up today unravel. Remember that we've unraveled many times before... singularity unraveled into a sea of energy which unraveled into a sea of galaxies which unraveled into a sea of heavy elements which unraveled into a sea of minerals and chemicals which unraveled into... us!

I ask anyone feeling death anxiety or even worried about death anxiety, do you hold a funeral every time you loose a skin cell? Of course not, because the skin cell was just part of the collective of who you are. But you may be shocked to find out that the majority of elements in your body recycle, and the person you are today, physically, is quite different from the person you were when you were born. You've died, lived, and renewed your cells billions of times since "you" first appeared on this earth. We don't perceive this though because we don't see ourselves as the individual skin cells, but instead, we see ourselves as the collective.

I think this is where I part ways from many people in humanity and this is where I have escaped death anxiety. I take that same view and step it a step further. Although my purpose for living the way that I do is not to escape death anxiety, it has been a welcome side effect of my philosophical views on life and death. I do not identify my self as the smallest constituents of what I am... furthermore, I do not identify myself as my body and brain, but rather, as my mind and the collective series of my actions.

When you think about who you are and what makes you, "you," you often list things such as personality traits, a list of facts that you know, a propensity to react certain ways in certain situations, beliefs, values, thoughts. Face it, if we could lose everything else but preserve these things, death anxiety would be nonexistent. However, those things that I have just listed... they are not physical, static conceptions, but instead are actions. When you think a thought, it is not a physical object, but instead is the action of the physical objects in your body. Everything you are and everything you do is a sea of actions, a sea of cause and effect.

However, every action that you ever take is affected by actions that have taken place before you. You may think that you are choosing between one thing and another whenever you are forced to make a choice, but the act of choosing happens when your brain weighs all of the costs and benefits based on all of what you have witnessed and learned in life. Had your life circumstances been different, you would be a completely different person. Actions that originated outside of your own body wholly shape the person you are today and the choices you make today, and the thoughts that you think today and for all of the days to come.

Taken a step further, every action that you produce will cause changes in the life of other people. When you share information with another intelligent person, when you harm or help another person, and above all, when you take part in the creation of a whole other person, you have taken part in the determination of the very being of that other person. No man is an island, and in my own view, every man is a projection of every force and impact on his life for the entire history of his existence.

Taking all of this into account, I want you to once again ask the question... who are you? The way I answer the question is that I am the sea of actions that passes through my physical body, not my physical body itself. Because my actions are caused by every other action in this world and every other action that happens after me is at least ever so slightly affected by me, it seems silly to view myself as my small mind, as just my body, which will die. Instead, I see myself as inseparable from that which has led to me and that which will always emanate from me. The rays of light that bounce off of my body will travel for the rest of time... to someone 100 lightyears away, I am not even born yet. The things I say will travel around humanity, even if only tiny portions of the original intent are left. The waves of molecules that I create by moving and shifting in my seat will reach you, physically, one day. We will share breaths of air, and every so often, you breathe the same atom of oxygen that Socrates breathed so long ago. I think it is pointless to see self as coming from merely our own body and brain. It is dependent on all forcing in this universe, of which our body and brain are but a tiny part.

I always refer to this as being the water, not the locks. Your body is like a lock that all of the water, all of the actions that happen in this universe, pass through... some in tiny, insignificant ways, and others in far more significant ways. The actions that you create will live on far after you die, and the thoughts that you have will inspire the thoughts of others far after you die. I have faith that someone will have read some of what I have said today, and think about it... and in that sense, I live on. However, what I say today is not just me, it is also you, because you are a part of the same sea of actions, the same water, with the same origin. It is also those who have come before me, affecting the very urge that I had to write such a long response to this question of death.

I believe a great deal of the misunderstandings, greed, harm, and pain in this would could be spared by realizing the interconnectedness of all beings. I think a large portion of harm comes from ignorance of self, and from people seeing themselves as the locks, not the water. If people realized that we were all part of the same sea of actions, none independent of any other action, and every action sharing a common origin somewhere deep in history, going all the way back to the big bang, then it would seem pointless and masochistic to inflict suffering on someone else to advance small mind, because once we identify with big mind, there is no NEED to advance small mind.

You want to know who you are? In my opinion, this is who I, you, and everyone else is:



The constant interaction of our thoughts, ideas, and forcings create a collective consciousness. This is not that hard to believe if you look at examples of collective consciousness in our everyday lives. The mind is a form of collective consciousness arising from the brain and its neurons, with individual neurons secreting neurotransmitters, a process that carries information from one neuron to another.  Likewise, ants to the same thing by secreting chemicals to one another when they bump into each other. These chemicals facilitate the transfer of information with the collective bits of information creating a "hive mind." The hive mind responds to changes in its environment by direct ants to do certain tasks, and the hive mind creates grand structures, air vents, nesting areas, and living spaces for its constituents.

Human beings are the same thing... but instead of chemicals, we secrete words to one another, creating the collective consciousness of humanity, society, cultures, and governments. Collective consciousness is being harnessed by us every day when we use social media sites, democracy, bittorrent, etc. Wikipedia is a great example of the power of a collective consciousness, where a sea of changes made by normal people creates an encyclopedia that is broader in scope and depth, and nearly as accurate as an encyclopedia written by an intelligent pannel of professors. I believe that galaxies, stars, and fields of cosmic dust do the same thing, secreting gravitational waves, forcing the matter to align itself into the most stable areas of existence, creating order from a sea of chaotic interactions.

Life is strange like that... it operates in a fashion that is against entropy. From a sea of chaotic changes, a road is created, bridges are created, the internet is created... all from the original primordial cosmic soup, all leading to what we experience today. Entropy weighs heavy on our shoulders, yet we still continue to try to fight against it. Who can say what will be more powerful when the universe is dying out... eons and eons of of the organization of intelligence and collective consciousness, or eons and eons of the breakdown and death of the universe...

But I know one this is for sure, I do not consider myself as primarily my individual mind. Rather, I see myself as American before I see myself as me, and I see myself as human before I see myself as American, and I see myself as a child of the universe before I see myself as human... and in that sense, these selves, these big minds will live far longer than my small mind. I am the water, not the locks, and even when my small mind is dead and gone, dying and leaving, I will not be sad, because I know that I will always live on as the sea of actions, regardless of where the current physical conglomeration of my elements ends up.

---

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/9891747#9891747

---

Quote:

In this theory, the universe is constantly developing towards higher levels of material complexity and consciousness, a theory of evolution that Teilhard called the Law of Complexity/Consciousness. For Teilhard, the universe can only move in the direction of more complexity and consciousness if it is being drawn by a supreme point of complexity and consciousness. Thus Teilhard postulates the Omega Point as the supreme point of complexity and consciousness, which is not only as the term of the evolutionary process, but is also the actual cause for the universe to grow in complexity and consciousness. In other words, the Omega Point exists as supremely complex and conscious, independent of the evolving universe. I.e., the Omega Point is transcendent. In interpreting the universe this way, Teilhard kept the Omega Point within the orthodox views of the Christian God, who is transcendent (independent) of his creation.

Teilhard argued that the Omega Point resembles the Christian Logos, namely Christ, who draws all things into himself, who in the words of the Nicene Creed, is "God from God", "Light from Light", "True God from true God," and "through him all things were made."

---

zzripz said:

dont you think that the sense of the sacred has been lost and hence right now earth, and web of life, is under terrible attack from this awful techno-mechanistic mindset?

IF say people dream of living longer, have they thought where food is going to come from, and food and habitats for all the other species whose home this planet is?

---

We reproduce less when we live longer.

zzripz said:

WHY is it that humans (who welcome 'trans' humanism) imagine that other species are just some kind of passe adjunct, as though there is no purpose or rights for them?

Where is responsibility?

---

Hakim0777 said:

What do you all think?


"Kurzweil projects that between now and 2050 technology will become so advanced that medical advances will allow people to radically extend their lifespans while preserving and even improving quality of life as they age. The aging process could at first be slowed, then halted, and then reversed as newer and better medical technologies became available. Kurzweil argues that much of this will be a fruit of advances in medical nanotechnology, which will allow microscopic machines to travel through one's body and repair all types of damage at the cellular level. But equally consequential developments will occur within the realm of computers as they become increasingly powerful, numerous and cheap between now and 2050. Kurzweil predicts that a computer will pass the Turing test by 2029, by demonstrating to have a mind (intelligence, self awareness, emotional richness) undistinguishable from a human's. He predicts that the first AI is built around a computer simulation of a human brain, which are made possible by previous, nanotech-guided brainscanning. An AI machine could handle the full range of human intellectual tasks and would be both emotional and self-aware. Kurzweil suggests that AI's will inevitably become far smarter and more powerful than un-enhanced humans. He suggests that AIs will exhibit moral thinking and will respect humans as their ancestors. According to his predictions, the line between humans and machines will blur as a natural part of technological evolution. Cybernetic implants will greatly enhance human cognitive and physical abilities, and allow direct interface between humans and machines."

---

I think it's a pipe dream with lots of death anxiety mixed in.

The problem is happiness not longevity.

Icelander said:

I think it's a pipe dream with lots of death anxiety mixed in.

The problem is happiness not longevity.

---

dummy said:

i'm not really trying to live passed 50. i don't really understand the infatuation with immortality people have. IMO your death is like your graduation from this life.

---