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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Climate Change Skeptics Have a Field Day...
    #18083490 -

Climate change skeptics are doing a bit of gloating following a series of mainstream media reports that acknowledge what those skeptics have long held -- the earth is not warming, at least not in the last 10 years.

"The idea that CO2 is the tail that wags the dog is no longer scientifically tenable," said Marc Morano of ClimateDepot.com, a website devoted to countering the prevailing acceptance of man-made global warming.

In recent weeks, Der Spiegel, the Telegraph and the Economist have reported the unexpected stabilizing of global surface temperatures. Even former NASA scientist and outspoken climate change activist James Hansen has acknowledged the 10-year lull.

Morano said: "In the peer-reviewed literature we're finding hundreds of factors influence global temperature, everything from ocean cycles to the tilt of the earth's axis to water vapor, methane, cloud feedback, volcanic dust, all of these factors are coming together. They're now realizing it wasn't the simple story we've been told of your SUV is creating a dangerously warm planet."

Many climate scientists and environmentalists agree with Morano's description of climate complexity, but reject his denials of global warming as a problem.

"This is a highly complex calculation to make in the first place. The short period of time, only 10 years in which the increasing temperature has leveled, really doesn't tell us very much other than the fact that temperatures may still be rising but just not as fast as they were before," said Elgie Holstein, the senior director for strategic planning at the Environmental Defense Fund and a former assistant secretary at the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration.

"What's compelling about the climate science," Holstein said, "is that we have literally thousands of the world's leading scientists around the country pretty much saying the same thing about where we're headed, and it's not reassuring."

But the surface temperature stabilization suggests that computer models which predict harsh consequences of global warming may need reassessing.

As The Economist put it on March 30, "It may be that the climate is responding to higher concentrations of carbon dioxide in ways that had not been properly understood before. This possibility, if true, could have profound significance both for climate science and for environmental and social policy."

Indeed, no one disputes that levels of carbon dioxide are increasing globally, but CO2's impact has not been as great as many scientists had predicted.

"In the peer-reviewed literature, they've tried to explain away this lull," said Morano. "In the proceedings of the National Academy of Science a year or two ago they had a study blaming Chinese coal use for the lack of global warming. So, in an ironic twist, global warming proponents are now claiming that that coal use is saving us from dangerous global warming."

Holstein believes the temperature lull is not entirely unexpected or unpredicted.

"We're within ranges of these climate models that are saying we're still on track to some pretty troublesome impacts if we don't do something about it," he said.

A Gallup survey conducted March 7-10 found 58 percent of Americans say they worry a great deal or fair amount about global warming.

That was up from 51 percent in 2011 -- but still below the 62-72 percent levels seen between 1999 and 2001.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/04/09/climate-change-skeptics-seize-on-reports-showing-temperatures-leveling/#ixzz2Q0znSouw
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

They are just saying what everyone already knows; global warming is a liberal scam that has fallen apart and now there are people's reputations in tatters and poor little mush minds are cast into doubt.

The best part is that one of the leading climate scientists said that, "global warming doesn't mean the planet has to get warm".

You just can't make this shit up.

:popcorn:


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There is no truer calling for mankind than that of true conservatism.

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Re: Climate Change Skeptics Have a Field Day... [Re: mpd]
    #18083534 -

Now if they'd only back down as strongly as they rang the bells of doom.

In the meantime... :rofl2:

Blunders of the decade...
Global Warming
Sequester Doom


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: Climate Change Skeptics Have a Field Day... [Re: mpd] * 3
    #18083543 -

This is why the title of your post is "climate change" and not global warming.

Whether we're causing the climate to warm is uncertain, but we're certainly causing it to change rapidly.

"Big picture" conclusions on weather can't be gathered from 10 years of observation.

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Re: Climate Change Skeptics Have a Field Day... [Re: Bikerfool] * 2
    #18083556 -

Good info MPD.


Bikerfool said:
"Big picture" conclusions on weather can't be gathered from 10 years of observation.


Agreed,
To believe that we've done no harm is.. :facepalm:


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¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Re: Climate Change Skeptics Have a Field Day... [Re: Bikerfool]
    #18083559 -

Bikerfool said:
but we're certainly causing it to change rapidly.


So you missed the part where they said that despite the CO2 levels still rising, temps haven't.

After years of being told that CO2 was going to change life as we know it.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: Climate Change Skeptics Have a Field Day... [Re: luvdemshrooms] * 3
    #18083587 -

Climate isn't a as simple as temperature.
luvdemshrooms said:
Bikerfool said:
but we're certainly causing it to change rapidly.


So you missed the part where they said that despite the CO2 levels still rising, temps haven't.

After years of being told that CO2 was going to change life as we know it.



Like I said earlier, you can't make assumptions based on 10 years of data.

Trustworthy source too :rolleyes:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/04/09/climate-change-skeptics-seize-on-reports-showing-temperatures-leveling/#ixzz2Q0znSouw

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Re: Climate Change Skeptics Have a Field Day... [Re: luvdemshrooms] * 2
    #18083604 -

luvdemshrooms said:
Bikerfool said:
but we're certainly causing it to change rapidly.


So you missed the part where they said that despite the CO2 levels still rising, temps haven't.

After years of being told that CO2 was going to change life as we know it.


I'm having a hard time believing that that many experienced and intelligent scientists were absolutely wrong and everything is fine.  That just seams too idealistic that we can deplete massive amounts of a natural resource on this planet via combustion and not affect anything.  If anything, water purity is fucked in many places.  And the temps "not changing" doesn't explain the ice caps melting, does it?


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In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion.

[Carl Sagan, 1987 CSICOP keynote address]

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Re: Climate Change Skeptics Have a Field Day... [Re: Bikerfool]
    #18083617 -

Check out this article:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2013/jan/16/2012-10-warmest-years-on-record

"Nasa and NOAA scientists say 2012 global temperature records further consolidate a pattern of global warming

2012 was among the 10 warmest years on record, rising above the long-term average for the 36th year in a row, according to data released on Tuesday."

Hmmm, doesn't sound like the temperature is stabilizing to me..

Unless you trust FOX over NASA and NOAA.

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Re: Climate Change Skeptics Have a Field Day... [Re: mpd] * 1
    #18083625 -

So, even if this were true, which it's not, what would the point be? Would we just emit all the CO2 we want? Stop being concerned about the environment? Allow the polar ice caps to melt because "there's no such thing as humans causing global warming?"


How can anyone not see that the anti-climate change groups are lobbyists trying to make it so that corporate interests and profits are served? What is the negative impact of working on technologies and materials that reduce our CO2 emissions? :wtf:


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Sapere aude

"We cannot live for ourselves alone. Our lives are connected by a thousand invisible threads, and along these sympathetic fibers, our actions run as causes and return to us as results."


UBUNTU- I am because we are.


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Re: Climate Change Skeptics Have a Field Day... [Re: JoieDeVivre] * 1
    #18083852 -

JoieDeVivre said:
What is the negative impact of working on technologies and materials that reduce our CO2 emissions? :wtf:


Exactly. We only stand to benefit from reducing fossil fuel consumption,
regardless of whether global warming is real.

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Re: Climate Change Skeptics Have a Field Day... [Re: Bikerfool]
    #18083869 -

Bikerfool said:
Climate isn't a as simple as temperature.
luvdemshrooms said:
Bikerfool said:
but we're certainly causing it to change rapidly.


So you missed the part where they said that despite the CO2 levels still rising, temps haven't.

After years of being told that CO2 was going to change life as we know it.



Like I said earlier, you can't make assumptions based on 10 years of data.

Trustworthy source too :rolleyes:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/04/09/climate-change-skeptics-seize-on-reports-showing-temperatures-leveling/#ixzz2Q0znSouw


Of course.  The great thing about the climate scam is how easily it's adherents can be corrupted in order to still be True Believers (TBs).  And we all know there will always be room for you in Linus Van Pelt's pumpkin patch every Halloween where you can all join hands, sing "I'd Like To Teach The World To Sing" and maybe a rousing chorus of  "Give Peace A Chance" while you make up proper little manifestos - all the while ignoring the horrible odor in the air from all that concentrated hippydom.  Yes!  You are TBs!  It can still be true if you remain true to it!

:smilingpuppy:


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There is no truer calling for mankind than that of true conservatism.

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Re: Climate Change Skeptics Have a Field Day... [Re: mpd]
    #18083971 -

When you have Icons of Scientific Thought making points for you like Al Gore, you know your cause is credible:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=zMrxC-qEHb8

:rofl2:


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:smug: [/url][/url] 
:smirk: IF THE NEIGHBORS COMPLAIN BECAUSE THE MUSIC'S TOO LOUD, TURN IT UP SO YOU CAN'T HEAR THEM BITCH    :smirk:

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Re: Climate Change Skeptics Have a Field Day... [Re: starfire_xes]
    #18084008 -

starfire_xes said:
When you have Icons of Scientific Thought making points for you like Al Gore, you know your cause is credible:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=zMrxC-qEHb8

:rofl2:


QFT


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There is no truer calling for mankind than that of true conservatism.

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Re: Climate Change Skeptics Have a Field Day... [Re: starfire_xes]
    #18084022 -

We just went through the deepest solar minimum in a century. The sun's output does have an effect on earth's temperatures, as you can see in this chart:



There is almost always a slight decrease over a few years in every 11 year cycle, but the upswings are much more pronounced than what you are crowing about - which is a lack of warming. You can't even get the usual cooling that each cycle in the past has seen.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: Climate Change Skeptics Have a Field Day... [Re: Tmethyl] * 1
    #18084046 -

Tmethyl said:
Good info MPD.


Bikerfool said:
"Big picture" conclusions on weather can't be gathered from 10 years of observation.


Agreed,
To believe that we've done no harm is.. :facepalm:


This is pretty surprising news, but I'm no meteorologist.

It's funny they talk about coal use "saving us" from global warming-- the problem with coal is the soot it blows into the atmosphere and the oceans, which collect in glaciers; the glaciers absorb more light from the sun, become hotter, and melt. Coal use won't slow down the rising of the oceans.

Polluters have been crowing over the lack of real "global warming" for years, but the issue of climate change is far more complex than temperatures. Our pollution is causing serious damage to the ecosystem, a mass extinction event. The fixation on carbon is pretty retarded in the midst of such a staggering loss of biodiversity. Natural selection is going to make us all its bitch.


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Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


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Re: Climate Change Skeptics Have a Field Day... [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #18084076 -

BS


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There is no truer calling for mankind than that of true conservatism.

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Re: Climate Change Skeptics Have a Field Day... [Re: mpd]
    #18084087 -

It's not. :shrug:


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Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


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Re: Climate Change Skeptics Have a Field Day... [Re: koods]
    #18084110 -

Here's a list of days without visible sunspots by year. As you can see, a majority of days n 2009 were spotless and there were nearly twice as many days without sunspots in this solar minimum than the average.  It's surprising we didn't see strong cooling. The fact that temps only leveled off indicates warming is accelerating.

2013 total: 0 days (0%)
2012 total: 0 days (0%)
2011 total: 2 days (<1%)
2010 total: 51 days (14%)
2009 total: 260 days (71%)

Since 2004: 821 days

Typical Solar Min: 486 days


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: Climate Change Skeptics Have a Field Day... [Re: koods]
    #18084141 -

The great thing about being a True Believer Koods is that no tater what the weather is doing outside you can find some sucker who will believe it is due to global warming.  It's like hen liberals call someone a racist; we have to stop, wash off the tar and then get the job done despite the obvious bullshit that has been introduced into the situation.



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There is no truer calling for mankind than that of true conservatism.

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Re: Climate Change Skeptics Have a Field Day... [Re: mpd] * 1
    #18084215 -

mpd said:
The great thing about being a True Believer Koods is that no tater what the weather is doing outside you can find some sucker who will believe it is due to global warming.  It's like hen liberals call someone a racist; we have to stop, wash off the tar and then get the job done despite the obvious bullshit that has been introduced into the situation.




It was 90° today. It snowed two weeks ago. We are warming like crazy.

But seriously, look at the chart I posted. The trendline is flat, not declining and despite the claims that warming is bullshit, 2010 was the hottest year ever.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

Edited by koods (04/09/13 11:00 PM)

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