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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: What's the temperature of outer space and why? [Re: krypto2000]
    #24223972 -

krypto2000 said:
What do you mean no one has proven a black hole exists? We've observed them in space, there's one in the center of our galaxy as every other.


Sorry but plausible and probable do not equal certain for sure


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:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

:facepalm: I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk

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Re: What's the temperature of outer space and why? [Re: imachavel]
    #24224009 -

Something filling the description of a black hole definitely exists.  Maybe not the exact idea of a black hole with an "infinitely dense singularity" at the centre of it, as infinities and singularities are where our mathematics break down, but it's basically certain that a region of space that's so massive it bends space in such a way that light can never escape it exists.  There are just so many different observations we have to confirm them, including directly seeing the gravitational influence of the supermassive black hole at the centre of our galaxy, GIANT QUASARS blasting jets of matter billions of light years across space directly into our telescopes, and the gravitational wave detection at LIGO last year which detected the merging of two ~30 solar mass black holes.

This thread is really old, but the answer to the question of what temperature is space, is about 2.7o Kelvin.  All of space is infused with radiation from shortly after the big bang, and that radiation has now cooled to a temperature of 2.7K above absolute zero.  If this wasn't the case, as has already been said, 0 degrees kelvin is a temperature that makes little sense as nothing can happen and isn't really possible due to random quantum field fluctuations anyway.

Here's an AWESOME video about how black holes are thought to work.  It's kind of from a series of videos that led up to this one, but you can get the idea without knowing the whole background behind it.


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Re: What's the temperature of outer space and why? [Re: imachavel]
    #24224040 -

The fact that light can be bent by gravity is proof enough. If you have enough gravity then light cant escape.  Also what do you think is at the center of every galaxy?  Something with huge amounts of gravity are holding all those billions of stars in a spiral and can not be seen. Black holes are very real, and easily proven.

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Re: What's the temperature of outer space and why? [Re: Midnight_Toker]
    #24224045 -

The main parts of the black hole theories I don't like have to do with the parts involving infinite variables. Otherwise something bending light in space with extreme gravity certainly exists.

We have no proof though that an object with enough gravity could collapse in on itself. It can probably can. I just don't understand why something with enough gravity can't already suck up light without collapsing itself.

Although it's plausible and probable that something with that much gravity would not be stable if gravity is too dense for fusion and no larger particle could exist in a stable fusion reaction besides hydrogen then probably the object would collapse in on itself and probably a black hole exists.

As far as I know the infinite variables deal mainly with the center and outside of a black hole. What happens to trapped matter etc. We've also said a black hole has a finite life span so why would infinite variables exist within a non infinite portion of space and time? It doesn't make sense.

There's a lot of extra jargon out there. I understand the concept by itself isn't so simple. Still, whether a black hole does indeed exist does not mean a lot of extra bullshit written by people who want to sell books makes all theories proven relevant.

Sorry, I respect what you added to the discussion. I didn't want to get my personal feelings involved in a discussion about such an impersonal matter of science.


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:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

:facepalm: I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk

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Re: What's the temperature of outer space and why? [Re: mca0824]
    #24224049 -

mca0824 said:
The fact that light can be bent by gravity is proof enough. If you have enough gravity then light cant escape.  Also what do you think is at the center of every galaxy?  Something with huge amounts of gravity are holding all those billions of stars in a spiral and can not be seen. Black holes are very real, and proven but by about the same principles and explanations that prove quantum physics


:lol: I had to edit that for you


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:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

:facepalm: I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk

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Re: What's the temperature of outer space and why? [Re: imachavel]
    #24224079 -

No one thinks these infinities actually exist, that's just the best our mathematics show which says more about our maths than it does about black holes. Any physicist would say the same. Whether the inside of a black hole is a singularity or not doesn't change that black holes exist though it just changes our understanding of what they actually are.

Edit: Are you saying we haven't proven quantumn physics? We can directly observe qauntum physics, as we can black holes, there is no proof required. That's like saying we haven't proven the sky is blue. What needs proving is the theoretical physics which attempt to explain what we can't yet see, what gives rise to the quantum physics we do see. Quantum physics is an entire field of physics, the whole thing is not theoretical.

Edited by krypto2000 (04/06/17 10:03 PM)

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Re: What's the temperature of outer space and why? [Re: Anjaba]
    #24224123 -

Anjaba said:
Would the thermometer really be indicating the temperature of space, or would the reading on the thermometer actually be the temperature of the thermometer itself.


Once they are in thermal equilibrium the temperature of the thermometer equals the temperature of space.  This is how thermometers always work.  They read the temperature of themselves and are only accurate for determining the temperature of something else once they are in thermodynamic equilibrium.  This is why you have to wait a moment when taking your temperature, waiting for thermodynamic equilibrium.

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Re: What's the temperature of outer space and why? [Re: krypto2000]
    #24224128 -

We have directly observed black holes. It's called LIGO. We've detected the gravitational waves produced by two black holes slowly spiraling into one another and merging. We've done it twice (well, two confirmed events they've processed and released so far, there are likely more being analyzed) and the latest version of LIGO hasn't even been up and running two full years yet.

Only two colliding objects massive enough to be black holes could create the ripples of flexure in space that LIGO detected, and those waves would only be generated in a universe where space and time are linked due to a finite speed of light, and the presence of mass causes curvature in both (gravity).

Black holes are real, they are common throughout the universe, and we have directly observed them by measuring the gravitational radiation they produce as they inspiral and collide.

One of the coolest things in my life was watching the announcement streamed live. Fucking imagine that. Both black holes were around 30 solar masses, and they were whipping around each other as fast as nearly 0.6c. Fuck man. A 30 solar mass object moving at 2/3 the speed of light.

That should make you :ancientaliens:


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The biggest trip of my life was realizing all of the events and actions described in posts made by this account were never real and had never actually happened, but were instead the delusional ramblings of a severely mentally ill human being. I just had to move on for my own good. I love you all.

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Re: What's the temperature of outer space and why? [Re: amidogen]
    #24224162 -

for all that exposition they really just looked like two bubbles merging and going down the drain

those microscopic water badger things though can survive for really long periods of time because they can expel all of the water in their body and just go dormant when no  food is around
https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap170326.html


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http://bunkpolice.com/basic-test-kit/
Vienna Declaration
Salvia Divinorum The Docudrahma

Edited by Konyap (04/06/17 10:34 PM)

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Re: What's the temperature of outer space and why? [Re: Konyap]
    #24224320 -

I always thought a black hole would be a lot like going into cowboy neal's mind

Just a deep, dark, infinite chasm of nothingness...with maybe a few of these floating around

:smugjerry:

and oh yeah these too

:hamsterdance:


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:niffla:

ACADEMY AWARD WINNING ACTOR
WG32 KILLED HOFFA
PROFESSIONAL BALL BUFFERER
WORST NEIGHBORHOOD YARD OF 2026 WINNER
OTD’S FORMER PRODIGAL SON
TODAY IS BEER DAY

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Re: What's the temperature of outer space and why? [Re: shallow]
    #24224440 -

shallow said:
Ok, I think I undestand you question but I dont have an answer. Umm, check the Kelvin scale. There is an exact temp for complete lack of energy using the Kelvin scale. Complete lack energy meaning no motion, no radiation, pretty much a nothingless, motionless state.

Im not a scientist and thats pretty much the extent of my scientific knowledge concerning the subject.


Even at absolute zero, atoms are still moving. Electrons are still darting around and there is quantum uncertainty about position which means there is always some random movement.

There is background radiation that permeates all space and will impart kinetic motion in molecules.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: What's the temperature of outer space and why? [Re: koods]
    #24224494 -

“Do you know the old Klingon proverb that revenge is a dish best served cold? It is very cold — in space.”

:whatthetrek:


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Pull the blinds and change their minds....

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Re: What's the temperature of outer space and why? [Re: mca0824]
    #24224510 -

mca0824 said:
The fact that light can be bent by gravity is proof enough. If you have enough gravity then light cant escape.  Also what do you think is at the center of every galaxy?  Something with huge amounts of gravity are holding all those billions of stars in a spiral and can not be seen. Black holes are very real, and easily proven.


They have proven that black holes play a part in the formation of galaxies but dark matter is pretty much the main reason why we have galaxies and clusters. Black holes do not produce enough gravity to keep trillions of stars from dispersing through out space.
A singularity is just a term physicists use to say they dont know exactly what is in a black hole. It makes sense to have something small enough with enough mass to manipulate light.
They recently recorded data of two black holes colliding which is how they were able to detect gravitational waves.


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Re: What's the temperature of outer space and why? [Re: koods]
    #24224577 -

imachavel said:
mca0824 said:
The fact that light can be bent by gravity is proof enough. If you have enough gravity then light cant escape.  Also what do you think is at the center of every galaxy?  Something with huge amounts of gravity are holding all those billions of stars in a spiral and can not be seen. Black holes are very real, and proven but by about the same principles and explanations that prove quantum physics


:lol: I had to edit that for you


If we had a quantum theory of gravity we probably wouldn't be having this conversation.  Black holes as we think of them are a relativistic theory.
  People have been able to quantize every other fundamental force and be rid of the infinities within them, but gravity has yet to be figured out.  Many people think a theory beyond quantum mechanics is needed to fundamentally explain gravity at all scales.
koods said:
shallow said:
Ok, I think I undestand you question but I dont have an answer. Umm, check the Kelvin scale. There is an exact temp for complete lack of energy using the Kelvin scale. Complete lack energy meaning no motion, no radiation, pretty much a nothingless, motionless state.

Im not a scientist and thats pretty much the extent of my scientific knowledge concerning the subject.


Even at absolute zero, atoms are still moving. Electrons are still darting around and there is quantum uncertainty about position which means there is always some random movement.

There is background radiation that permeates all space and will impart kinetic motion in molecules.


And movement = temperature, so absolute 0 is unable to happen as long as quantum fields exist.  Even without any fundamental particles in the universe whatsoever, virtual particles would still appear and annihilate from quantum-uncertaincy causing a non-zero temp.

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Re: What's the temperature of outer space and why? [Re: imachavel]
    #24226041 -

I would just assume you leave my words alone and just state your own.  I agree that some of quantum physics is unknown, but that does not rule out black holes by any stretch.  If you do not believe in black holes then you may need to do more research.

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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