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InvisibleTheHateCamel
Research &Development -DBK
Registered: 01/31/03
Posts: 15,738
What's the temperature of outer space and why?
    #3912345 - 03/13/05 04:36 PM (19 years, 10 days ago)

I'm curious about this.

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Invisiblegdman
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Re: What's the temperature of outer space and why? [Re: TheHateCamel]
    #3912364 - 03/13/05 04:40 PM (19 years, 10 days ago)

It will vary, in extreams. Depending on how close to the sun (or other star) you are. Or if there is a large object (a planet, moon, etc.) directly between you and said star. In the shadow of an object or just far away from a star, it will be very, very cold. Nearer a star it becomes quite hot.


--------------------


Got a question about a substance?  Erowid might already have your answer! Have questions about the  mushroom experience? The  Tripper's FAQ may have your answer or someone else might have had your question before.
         
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  - Theodor Seuss Geisel Dr. Suess

"I didn't come here to be easily understood" - Steve

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Invisiblezerozero
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Re: What's the temperature of outer space and why? [Re: TheHateCamel]
    #3912369 - 03/13/05 04:42 PM (19 years, 10 days ago)

cold, real cold. except next to our sun.
cause it's a vacuum.
short answer too lazy to.....

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InvisibleTheHateCamel
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Registered: 01/31/03
Posts: 15,738
Re: What's the temperature of outer space and why? [Re: gdman]
    #3912373 - 03/13/05 04:43 PM (19 years, 10 days ago)

Hmm, what about in the huge spaces between everything?

Marijuana makes me think there has to be some common temperature in space.

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Invisibledblaney
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Re: What's the temperature of outer space and why? [Re: TheHateCamel]
    #3912378 - 03/13/05 04:43 PM (19 years, 10 days ago)

Depends on where. Clearly the vast majority of outer space is vacuum. In a vacuum, there is no such thing as temperature. Temperature is a measure of kinetic molecular energy, but in a vacuum, there are no molecules, and since there aren't any molecules, there cannot be a temperature. However, planetary and celestial bodies aside, there are gases in outer space, and they can range in temperature from 2K to millions of degrees K.

An interesting question would be what temperature is a black hole.


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln

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InvisibleMushie_Man
Fuck Up

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Posts: 889
Loc: UK
Re: What's the temperature of outer space and why? [Re: zerozero]
    #3912379 - 03/13/05 04:44 PM (19 years, 10 days ago)

Only smarties have the answer  :shrug:


--------------------
Ecstacy got me standing next to you
Getting sentimental as fuck spillin' guts to you
We just met
But I think I'm in love with you
But you're on it too
So you tell me you love me too
Wake up in the morning like "yo, what the fuck we do?"

Edited by Mushie_Man (03/13/05 04:58 PM)

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Offlineshallow
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Re: What's the temperature of outer space and why? [Re: TheHateCamel]
    #3912402 - 03/13/05 04:48 PM (19 years, 10 days ago)


Ok, I think I undestand you question but I dont have an answer. Umm, check the Kelvin scale. There is an exact temp for complete lack of energy using the Kelvin scale. Complete lack energy meaning no motion, no radiation, pretty much a nothingless, motionless state.

Im not a scientist and thats pretty much the extent of my scientific knowledge concerning the subject.

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InvisibleTheHateCamel
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Re: What's the temperature of outer space and why? [Re: dblaney]
    #3912404 - 03/13/05 04:49 PM (19 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

dblaney18 said:
Depends on where. Clearly the vast majority of outer space is vacuum. In a vacuum, there is no such thing as temperature. Temperature is a measure of kinetic molecular energy, but in a vacuum, there are no molecules, and since there aren't any molecules, there cannot be a temperature. However, planetary and celestial bodies aside, there are gases in outer space, and they can range in temperature from 2K to millions of degrees K.

An interesting question would be what temperature is a black hole.




I knew there was an answer.

So, there is no temperature in a vacuum? How does that work?

How can you even travel in a vacuum?

P.S. The temperature of a black hole is fucking hot.

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Invisibledblaney
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Re: What's the temperature of outer space and why? [Re: shallow]
    #3912407 - 03/13/05 04:50 PM (19 years, 10 days ago)

What you're thinking of is absolute zero (0K). However that doesn't apply to most of outer space, because there are no molecules there in the first place.


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln

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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: What's the temperature of outer space and why? [Re: dblaney]
    #3912412 - 03/13/05 04:51 PM (19 years, 10 days ago)

Temperature is a measure of kinetic molecular energy, but in a vacuum, there are no molecules, and since there aren't any molecules, there cannot be a temperature.

So... if Nasa built a thermometer and tossed it into the vacuum of space... What exactly would the thermometer indicate?



--------------------
Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.

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InvisibleTheHateCamel
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Re: What's the temperature of outer space and why? [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #3912416 - 03/13/05 04:51 PM (19 years, 10 days ago)

That's what I want to know.

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InvisibleLe_Canard
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Re: What's the temperature of outer space and why? [Re: TheHateCamel]
    #3912424 - 03/13/05 04:52 PM (19 years, 10 days ago)

I've read an article about this very thing some years ago. I can't give you an exact figure, but I recall the average temperature in space is somewhere close to absolute zero (About -460 degrees fahrenheit) for the reasons listed above, that is, that most of the universe is simply space....

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Invisibledblaney
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Re: What's the temperature of outer space and why? [Re: TheHateCamel]
    #3912435 - 03/13/05 04:55 PM (19 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

TheHateCamel said:
So, there is no temperature in a vacuum? How does that work?

How can you even travel in a vacuum?

P.S. The temperature of a black hole is fucking hot.




A vacuum is a strange thing to comprehend. It is simply nothingness.

Rockets are able to travel in space, because the shells are able to withstand enormous amounts of pressure. Their engines are very powerful, and Newton's third law really goes into this more. Gases are expelled from the engines with enormous momentum; since there is a conservation of momentum, the rocket must move forward.

I wonder where black holes go, if anywhere?


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln

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Offlinephi1618
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Re: What's the temperature of outer space and why? [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #3912437 - 03/13/05 04:56 PM (19 years, 10 days ago)

If you put a thermometer in the blackness of space between the stars, where there's very little gas or light, the temperature shown would drop very low. This is because the thermometer would be emiting more energy through radiation than it would be absorbing. If the thermometer was wet, or if there was some way for molecules to escape from the surface of the thermometer, it would drop more quickly, because these molecules would take energy with them.

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Invisibledblaney
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Re: What's the temperature of outer space and why? [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #3912441 - 03/13/05 04:57 PM (19 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

SkorpivoMusterion said:
So... if Nasa built a thermometer and tossed it into the vacuum of space... What exactly would the thermometer indicate?





Nothing, it would probably implode or explode.


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln

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InvisibleLe_Canard
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Re: What's the temperature of outer space and why? [Re: dblaney]
    #3912443 - 03/13/05 04:57 PM (19 years, 10 days ago)

Yes, the laws of motion and inertia still apply in a vacuum....

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Offlinephi1618
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Re: What's the temperature of outer space and why? [Re: dblaney]
    #3912446 - 03/13/05 04:59 PM (19 years, 10 days ago)

If the thermometer was designed to withstand the rigors of space, it wouldn't necessarily explode.

The internal pressure would exceed the external pressure, but if the container was strong enough, the thermometer would still work.

It would read a very small number, because the thermometer would be emitting IR radiation, but getting very little energy in return.

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Invisiblezerozero
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Re: What's the temperature of outer space and why? [Re: TheHateCamel]
    #3912465 - 03/13/05 05:04 PM (19 years, 10 days ago)

this guy says+120degrees C to -100 degrees C. http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2002/MimiZheng.shtml
things like our space craft, when we had them, could travel through space because the were pressurized, one pin hole tare, and pressure death.
rocks and chunks of planets can be in a vacuum cause there is no splat-able organics.

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InvisibleTheHateCamel
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Re: What's the temperature of outer space and why? [Re: zerozero]
    #3912480 - 03/13/05 05:06 PM (19 years, 10 days ago)

Shouldn't there be ridiculous amounts of dust/tiny rocks flying through space?

Why wouldn't they rip right through a spacecraft?

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Invisiblezerozero
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Re: What's the temperature of outer space and why? [Re: TheHateCamel] * 1
    #3912499 - 03/13/05 05:11 PM (19 years, 10 days ago)

they do.
yet another reason space exploration is really further down the road than one would like.
one little uncharted rock could wreck something.

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OfflineRandolph_Carter
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Re: What's the temperature of outer space and why? [Re: TheHateCamel]
    #3912563 - 03/13/05 05:28 PM (19 years, 10 days ago)

For some reason an average number of 2.3 K comes to mind.


--------------------
"..all those molecules thrashing their kinky little tails, hot for destiny and the street."  Gibson


Nuke baby seals for Jesus!

(This has been a +1 production.)

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InvisibleTYL3R
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Re: What's the temperature of outer space and why? [Re: dblaney]
    #3912608 - 03/13/05 05:44 PM (19 years, 10 days ago)

A black hole is a collapsed dead star that has so much gravity it acts like a huge vacuum cleaner, sucking everything into it. Such as light, interstellar dust, and time.

There can be no temperature. Even if there were molecules to generate temperature, they would be sucked into it.

I would fly into one, if it was possible....even if it meant my demise.

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OfflineAnjaba
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Re: What's the temperature of outer space and why? [Re: Randolph_Carter]
    #3912614 - 03/13/05 05:46 PM (19 years, 10 days ago)

Would the thermometer really be indicating the temperature of space, or would the reading on the thermometer actually be the temperature of the thermometer itself. The radiation from the sun would travel through space and not excite any molecules, therefore temperature would be non-existent. When you put a thermometer in the path of the radiation the molecules in the thermometer are what's getting excited, there still is no kinetic energy outside of the thermometer.


--------------------



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InvisibleTYL3R
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Re: What's the temperature of outer space and why? [Re: Anjaba]
    #3912713 - 03/13/05 06:07 PM (19 years, 10 days ago)

I don't think a mercury thermometer would work in space. I think the mercury would freeze....

I'm not a scientist though...

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Invisibleivi
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Re: What's the temperature of outer space and why? [Re: dblaney]
    #3912751 - 03/13/05 06:20 PM (19 years, 10 days ago)

Still, if you put a thermometer in space with no light or heat source around and absolutely no background radiation, you'd get the temperature reading of 2.7279K (0K =absolute zero=-273C) - the temperature of the space if you please. It was determined by the NASA COBE satellite in 1992. This is, however, not the temperature of space itself, but that of the primordial cosmic background radiation left over from the Big Bang. No matter where you go, you cannot escape it.


--------------------

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InvisibleTheHateCamel
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Re: What's the temperature of outer space and why? [Re: ivi]
    #3912780 - 03/13/05 06:27 PM (19 years, 10 days ago)

I :heart: Earths atmosphere.

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Invisiblezerozero
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Re: What's the temperature of outer space and why? [Re: ivi]
    #3912799 - 03/13/05 06:30 PM (19 years, 10 days ago)

sounds like a movie trailer ," primordial cosmic background radiation left over from the Big Bang. No matter where you go, you cannot escape it. "
:tongue: :tongue2:

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OfflineRandolph_Carter
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Re: What's the temperature of outer space and why? [Re: ivi]
    #3912866 - 03/13/05 06:42 PM (19 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

ivi said:
Still, if you put a thermometer in space with no light or heat source around and absolutely no background radiation, you'd get the temperature reading of 2.7279K (0K =absolute zero=-273C) - the temperature of the space if you please. It was determined by the NASA COBE satellite in 1992. This is, however, not the temperature of space itself, but that of the primordial cosmic background radiation left over from the Big Bang. No matter where you go, you cannot escape it.



Correct.

Anjaba: Temperature is just energy. So being in space would have you absorbing energy in the form of photons and collisions with particles, such as those generated by solar wind.
The temperature of the thermometer would vary according to how much energy was imparted upon it by said sources.

Believe it or not, cooling systems are required on spacecraft due to the abosrbtion of solar radiation/particles, otherwise they'd fry.


--------------------
"..all those molecules thrashing their kinky little tails, hot for destiny and the street."  Gibson


Nuke baby seals for Jesus!

(This has been a +1 production.)

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OfflineBoneMan
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Re: What's the temperature of outer space and why? [Re: dblaney]
    #3913767 - 03/13/05 09:47 PM (19 years, 9 days ago)

Quote:

dblaney18 said:
..in a vacuum, there are no molecules, and since there aren't any molecules, there cannot be a temperature...




space is a vacuum in theory but there are definitely molecules, dust, gas (and mushroom spores heh) floating around out there

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Invisibledblaney
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Re: What's the temperature of outer space and why? [Re: BoneMan]
    #3913777 - 03/13/05 09:49 PM (19 years, 9 days ago)

Oh yeah, certainly, but I mean 'pure' outer space, the pollution and junk and gases floating around out there don't count :grin:


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln

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Offlinemca0824
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Re: What's the temperature of outer space and why? [Re: TheHateCamel]
    #24223669 - 04/06/17 07:11 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Well that's a good question.  The answer is not so simple.  Temperature is equal to a subjects vibration. like if water is rapidly vibrating it begins to boil and some of it is moving so quickly that some of it escapes as steam.  If water is vibrating very slowly it turns to ice.  So fast motion = hot  slow motion = cold.  In space their is no atmosphere to vibrate so no heat transfer.  If you are in view of the sun however you will be interacting with the suns rays and you will vibrate rapidly so you will get hot, very hot.  The further from the sun you are the less of the suns rays you will interact with so you would get cooler as you are further away.  If you are not in view of the sun then you would not have anything around moving so you would vibrate slower. So you would be cold.  very cold. Like minus 400 degrees f cold.  In short, it depends on your proximity to the nearest star, atmosphere, etc..

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Offlinekrypto2000
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Re: What's the temperature of outer space and why? [Re: mca0824]
    #24223769 - 04/06/17 07:48 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

I typed out a response and right as I was about to submit it I accidentally deleted the whole thing. It would be great if android could be updated to 1985 and incorporate an undo function.

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Offlineimachavel
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Re: What's the temperature of outer space and why? [Re: dblaney]
    #24223812 - 04/06/17 08:04 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

dblaney said:
Depends on where. Clearly the vast majority of outer space is vacuum. In a vacuum, there is no such thing as temperature. Temperature is a measure of kinetic molecular energy, but in a vacuum, there are no molecules, and since there aren't any molecules, there cannot be a temperature. However, planetary and celestial bodies aside, there are gases in outer space, and they can range in temperature from 2K to millions of degrees K.

An interesting question would be what temperature is a black hole.




Exactly. There is no temperature where there are no molecules. I think it's said though that the moon is a good example of how well temperature is conducted in a vacuum with no atmosphere. If I'm not mistaken the moon is a hundred or so above absolute zero at night and over the temperature that water boils at in the sun. That of course is relative to the sun's position.

If the moon was like the earth it might have an atmosphere that would regulate the heat and hold in temperature at night. If so in it's relative position to the sun it's very possible life would be found on it.

Maybe this is what OP was looking for though.

http://jdetrick.blogspot.com/2012/01/what-happens-to-atom-when-it-stops.html?m=1

The absolute coldest temperature. I wish that was an updated article.


--------------------
:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

:facepalm: I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk

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Offlineimachavel
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Re: What's the temperature of outer space and why? [Re: mca0824]
    #24223820 - 04/06/17 08:06 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

mca0824 said:
Well that's a good question.  The answer is not so simple.  Temperature is equal to a subjects vibration. like if water is rapidly vibrating it begins to boil and some of it is moving so quickly that some of it escapes as steam.  If water is vibrating very slowly it turns to ice.  So fast motion = hot  slow motion = cold.  In space their is no atmosphere to vibrate so no heat transfer.  If you are in view of the sun however you will be interacting with the suns rays and you will vibrate rapidly so you will get hot, very hot.  The further from the sun you are the less of the suns rays you will interact with so you would get cooler as you are further away.  If you are not in view of the sun then you would not have anything around moving so you would vibrate slower. So you would be cold.  very cold. Like minus 400 degrees f cold.  In short, it depends on your proximity to the nearest star, atmosphere, etc..




Speaking of water there is no "water" in space. "Water" is held together by the pressure of the atmosphere. In space it's ice at 32 F and boils at 33 F. It's one of my favorite molecules, and of course a very critical one to my life function.


--------------------
:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

:facepalm: I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk

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Offlinekrypto2000
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Re: What's the temperature of outer space and why? [Re: imachavel]
    #24223836 - 04/06/17 08:11 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

There's no such thing as a true vacuum though, it can't physically exist, so it makes no sense to ask what the temperature would be. On the quantum level space itself fluctuates with energy and matter popping into and out of existence so even if somehow you could create a complete vacuum it would not last. If something were at absolute zero it would also expand to fill all of space itself which is obviously impossible. Absolute zero is just the theoretical bottom.

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Offlinekrypto2000
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Re: What's the temperature of outer space and why? [Re: imachavel]
    #24223843 - 04/06/17 08:15 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

imachavel said:
Quote:

mca0824 said:
Well that's a good question.  The answer is not so simple.  Temperature is equal to a subjects vibration. like if water is rapidly vibrating it begins to boil and some of it is moving so quickly that some of it escapes as steam.  If water is vibrating very slowly it turns to ice.  So fast motion = hot  slow motion = cold.  In space their is no atmosphere to vibrate so no heat transfer.  If you are in view of the sun however you will be interacting with the suns rays and you will vibrate rapidly so you will get hot, very hot.  The further from the sun you are the less of the suns rays you will interact with so you would get cooler as you are further away.  If you are not in view of the sun then you would not have anything around moving so you would vibrate slower. So you would be cold.  very cold. Like minus 400 degrees f cold.  In short, it depends on your proximity to the nearest star, atmosphere, etc..




Speaking of water there is no "water" in space. "Water" is held together by the pressure of the atmosphere. In space it's ice at 32 F and boils at 33 F. It's one of my favorite molecules, and of course a very critical one to my life function.




Are you saying the molecular bonds would break and it would become hydrogen and oxygen or are you saying that when water freezes or evaporates that it's no longer water?

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Offlineimachavel
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Re: What's the temperature of outer space and why? [Re: krypto2000]
    #24223908 - 04/06/17 08:36 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

krypto2000 said:
Quote:

imachavel said:
Quote:

mca0824 said:
Well that's a good question.  The answer is not so simple.  Temperature is equal to a subjects vibration. like if water is rapidly vibrating it begins to boil and some of it is moving so quickly that some of it escapes as steam.  If water is vibrating very slowly it turns to ice.  So fast motion = hot  slow motion = cold.  In space their is no atmosphere to vibrate so no heat transfer.  If you are in view of the sun however you will be interacting with the suns rays and you will vibrate rapidly so you will get hot, very hot.  The further from the sun you are the less of the suns rays you will interact with so you would get cooler as you are further away.  If you are not in view of the sun then you would not have anything around moving so you would vibrate slower. So you would be cold.  very cold. Like minus 400 degrees f cold.  In short, it depends on your proximity to the nearest star, atmosphere, etc..




Speaking of water there is no "water" in space. "Water" is held together by the pressure of the atmosphere. In space it's ice at 32 F and boils at 33 F. It's one of my favorite molecules, and of course a very critical one to my life function.




Are you saying the molecular bonds would break and it would become hydrogen and oxygen or are you saying that when water freezes or evaporates that it's no longer water?




I don't know how to break those molecular bonds. I think radiation will destroy water but it's a pretty stable molecule as it based one two very simple atoms.

What I meant is water does not exist as a liquid in space, with no gravity to hold in air pressure whatever cannot exist. As a liquid. It boils at 212 F at sea level. As a gas or in ice form in a vaccum


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Offlineimachavel
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Re: What's the temperature of outer space and why? [Re: krypto2000]
    #24223922 - 04/06/17 08:40 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

krypto2000 said:
There's no such thing as a true vacuum though, it can't physically exist, so it makes no sense to ask what the temperature would be. On the quantum level space itself fluctuates with energy and matter popping into and out of existence so even if somehow you could create a complete vacuum it would not last. If something were at absolute zero it would also expand to fill all of space itself which is obviously impossible. Absolute zero is just the theoretical bottom.




What about in a black hole? That kind of goes beyond our measure of understanding something beyond a theoretical concept though, as no one has proven a black hole actually exists.

Yes no one believe absolute zero could exists, as no motion = no energy and atoms are made up of energy. I suppose you could say a pure vacuum would equal absolute zero but then if a perfect vacuum can't exist then surely absolute zero can't exist.


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:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

:facepalm: I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk

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Re: What's the temperature of outer space and why? [Re: imachavel]
    #24223947 - 04/06/17 08:49 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

What do you mean no one has proven a black hole exists? We've observed them in space, there's one in the center of our galaxy as every other.

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Re: What's the temperature of outer space and why? [Re: krypto2000]
    #24223964 - 04/06/17 08:56 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

It's theory there is no proof. It's barely a proven theory. If inference is elimination of other outcomes and we know other things can fuck with optic measurements then how do we know they exist?

Certain equations based on using uncertain variables? It's impossible to turn the theory of a black hole into a proven scientific law. Impossible I tell you.


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:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

:facepalm: I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk

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Re: What's the temperature of outer space and why? [Re: krypto2000]
    #24223972 - 04/06/17 08:56 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

krypto2000 said:
What do you mean no one has proven a black hole exists? We've observed them in space, there's one in the center of our galaxy as every other.




Sorry but plausible and probable do not equal certain for sure


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:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

:facepalm: I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk

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Re: What's the temperature of outer space and why? [Re: imachavel]
    #24224009 - 04/06/17 09:10 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Something filling the description of a black hole definitely exists.  Maybe not the exact idea of a black hole with an "infinitely dense singularity" at the centre of it, as infinities and singularities are where our mathematics break down, but it's basically certain that a region of space that's so massive it bends space in such a way that light can never escape it exists.  There are just so many different observations we have to confirm them, including directly seeing the gravitational influence of the supermassive black hole at the centre of our galaxy, GIANT QUASARS blasting jets of matter billions of light years across space directly into our telescopes, and the gravitational wave detection at LIGO last year which detected the merging of two ~30 solar mass black holes.

This thread is really old, but the answer to the question of what temperature is space, is about 2.7o Kelvin.  All of space is infused with radiation from shortly after the big bang, and that radiation has now cooled to a temperature of 2.7K above absolute zero.  If this wasn't the case, as has already been said, 0 degrees kelvin is a temperature that makes little sense as nothing can happen and isn't really possible due to random quantum field fluctuations anyway.

Here's an AWESOME video about how black holes are thought to work.  It's kind of from a series of videos that led up to this one, but you can get the idea without knowing the whole background behind it.


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Re: What's the temperature of outer space and why? [Re: imachavel]
    #24224040 - 04/06/17 09:24 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

The fact that light can be bent by gravity is proof enough. If you have enough gravity then light cant escape.  Also what do you think is at the center of every galaxy?  Something with huge amounts of gravity are holding all those billions of stars in a spiral and can not be seen. Black holes are very real, and easily proven.

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Re: What's the temperature of outer space and why? [Re: Midnight_Toker]
    #24224045 - 04/06/17 09:27 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

The main parts of the black hole theories I don't like have to do with the parts involving infinite variables. Otherwise something bending light in space with extreme gravity certainly exists.

We have no proof though that an object with enough gravity could collapse in on itself. It can probably can. I just don't understand why something with enough gravity can't already suck up light without collapsing itself.

Although it's plausible and probable that something with that much gravity would not be stable if gravity is too dense for fusion and no larger particle could exist in a stable fusion reaction besides hydrogen then probably the object would collapse in on itself and probably a black hole exists.

As far as I know the infinite variables deal mainly with the center and outside of a black hole. What happens to trapped matter etc. We've also said a black hole has a finite life span so why would infinite variables exist within a non infinite portion of space and time? It doesn't make sense.

There's a lot of extra jargon out there. I understand the concept by itself isn't so simple. Still, whether a black hole does indeed exist does not mean a lot of extra bullshit written by people who want to sell books makes all theories proven relevant.

Sorry, I respect what you added to the discussion. I didn't want to get my personal feelings involved in a discussion about such an impersonal matter of science.


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:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

:facepalm: I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk

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Re: What's the temperature of outer space and why? [Re: mca0824]
    #24224049 - 04/06/17 09:29 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

mca0824 said:
The fact that light can be bent by gravity is proof enough. If you have enough gravity then light cant escape.  Also what do you think is at the center of every galaxy?  Something with huge amounts of gravity are holding all those billions of stars in a spiral and can not be seen. Black holes are very real, and proven but by about the same principles and explanations that prove quantum physics




:lol: I had to edit that for you


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:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

:facepalm: I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk

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Re: What's the temperature of outer space and why? [Re: imachavel]
    #24224079 - 04/06/17 09:54 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

No one thinks these infinities actually exist, that's just the best our mathematics show which says more about our maths than it does about black holes. Any physicist would say the same. Whether the inside of a black hole is a singularity or not doesn't change that black holes exist though it just changes our understanding of what they actually are.

Edit: Are you saying we haven't proven quantumn physics? We can directly observe qauntum physics, as we can black holes, there is no proof required. That's like saying we haven't proven the sky is blue. What needs proving is the theoretical physics which attempt to explain what we can't yet see, what gives rise to the quantum physics we do see. Quantum physics is an entire field of physics, the whole thing is not theoretical.

Edited by krypto2000 (04/06/17 10:03 PM)

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Re: What's the temperature of outer space and why? [Re: Anjaba]
    #24224123 - 04/06/17 10:10 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Anjaba said:
Would the thermometer really be indicating the temperature of space, or would the reading on the thermometer actually be the temperature of the thermometer itself.




Once they are in thermal equilibrium the temperature of the thermometer equals the temperature of space.  This is how thermometers always work.  They read the temperature of themselves and are only accurate for determining the temperature of something else once they are in thermodynamic equilibrium.  This is why you have to wait a moment when taking your temperature, waiting for thermodynamic equilibrium.

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Re: What's the temperature of outer space and why? [Re: krypto2000]
    #24224128 - 04/06/17 10:12 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

We have directly observed black holes. It's called LIGO. We've detected the gravitational waves produced by two black holes slowly spiraling into one another and merging. We've done it twice (well, two confirmed events they've processed and released so far, there are likely more being analyzed) and the latest version of LIGO hasn't even been up and running two full years yet.

Only two colliding objects massive enough to be black holes could create the ripples of flexure in space that LIGO detected, and those waves would only be generated in a universe where space and time are linked due to a finite speed of light, and the presence of mass causes curvature in both (gravity).

Black holes are real, they are common throughout the universe, and we have directly observed them by measuring the gravitational radiation they produce as they inspiral and collide.

One of the coolest things in my life was watching the announcement streamed live. Fucking imagine that. Both black holes were around 30 solar masses, and they were whipping around each other as fast as nearly 0.6c. Fuck man. A 30 solar mass object moving at 2/3 the speed of light.

That should make you :ancientaliens:


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Re: What's the temperature of outer space and why? [Re: amidogen]
    #24224162 - 04/06/17 10:33 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

for all that exposition they really just looked like two bubbles merging and going down the drain

those microscopic water badger things though can survive for really long periods of time because they can expel all of the water in their body and just go dormant when no  food is around
https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap170326.html

Edited by Konyap (04/06/17 10:34 PM)

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Re: What's the temperature of outer space and why? [Re: Konyap]
    #24224320 - 04/07/17 12:07 AM (6 years, 11 months ago)

I always thought a black hole would be a lot like going into cowboy neal's mind

Just a deep, dark, infinite chasm of nothingness...with maybe a few of these floating around

:smugjerry:

and oh yeah these too

:hamsterdance:


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Re: What's the temperature of outer space and why? [Re: shallow]
    #24224440 - 04/07/17 01:08 AM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

shallow said:

Ok, I think I undestand you question but I dont have an answer. Umm, check the Kelvin scale. There is an exact temp for complete lack of energy using the Kelvin scale. Complete lack energy meaning no motion, no radiation, pretty much a nothingless, motionless state.

Im not a scientist and thats pretty much the extent of my scientific knowledge concerning the subject.



Even at absolute zero, atoms are still moving. Electrons are still darting around and there is quantum uncertainty about position which means there is always some random movement.

There is background radiation that permeates all space and will impart kinetic motion in molecules.


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Re: What's the temperature of outer space and why? [Re: koods]
    #24224494 - 04/07/17 02:00 AM (6 years, 11 months ago)

“Do you know the old Klingon proverb that revenge is a dish best served cold? It is very cold — in space.”

:whatthetrek:


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Re: What's the temperature of outer space and why? [Re: mca0824]
    #24224510 - 04/07/17 02:18 AM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

mca0824 said:
The fact that light can be bent by gravity is proof enough. If you have enough gravity then light cant escape.  Also what do you think is at the center of every galaxy?  Something with huge amounts of gravity are holding all those billions of stars in a spiral and can not be seen. Black holes are very real, and easily proven.



They have proven that black holes play a part in the formation of galaxies but dark matter is pretty much the main reason why we have galaxies and clusters. Black holes do not produce enough gravity to keep trillions of stars from dispersing through out space.
A singularity is just a term physicists use to say they dont know exactly what is in a black hole. It makes sense to have something small enough with enough mass to manipulate light.
They recently recorded data of two black holes colliding which is how they were able to detect gravitational waves.


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Re: What's the temperature of outer space and why? [Re: koods]
    #24224577 - 04/07/17 04:02 AM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

imachavel said:
Quote:

mca0824 said:
The fact that light can be bent by gravity is proof enough. If you have enough gravity then light cant escape.  Also what do you think is at the center of every galaxy?  Something with huge amounts of gravity are holding all those billions of stars in a spiral and can not be seen. Black holes are very real, and proven but by about the same principles and explanations that prove quantum physics




:lol: I had to edit that for you



If we had a quantum theory of gravity we probably wouldn't be having this conversation.  Black holes as we think of them are a relativistic theory.
  People have been able to quantize every other fundamental force and be rid of the infinities within them, but gravity has yet to be figured out.  Many people think a theory beyond quantum mechanics is needed to fundamentally explain gravity at all scales.
Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

shallow said:

Ok, I think I undestand you question but I dont have an answer. Umm, check the Kelvin scale. There is an exact temp for complete lack of energy using the Kelvin scale. Complete lack energy meaning no motion, no radiation, pretty much a nothingless, motionless state.

Im not a scientist and thats pretty much the extent of my scientific knowledge concerning the subject.



Even at absolute zero, atoms are still moving. Electrons are still darting around and there is quantum uncertainty about position which means there is always some random movement.

There is background radiation that permeates all space and will impart kinetic motion in molecules.



And movement = temperature, so absolute 0 is unable to happen as long as quantum fields exist.  Even without any fundamental particles in the universe whatsoever, virtual particles would still appear and annihilate from quantum-uncertaincy causing a non-zero temp.

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Re: What's the temperature of outer space and why? [Re: imachavel]
    #24226041 - 04/07/17 05:51 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

I would just assume you leave my words alone and just state your own.  I agree that some of quantum physics is unknown, but that does not rule out black holes by any stretch.  If you do not believe in black holes then you may need to do more research.

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