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Re: ChinaCat, Its getting sickening [Re: blink]
    #1780269 -

It's unfortunate that more studies aren't done involving LSD on human subjects, given its safety. It is used in research and it is a very valuable research tool, but it's usually used as a 5HT2A agonist. There have been a few papers published lately which try to link psychedelic 5HT2A agonists like LSD and psilocin with psychedelic NMDA antagonists like PCP and ketamine. I think one message of these papers is that the authors are saying that "we need more research done with this drugs."

Modern psychiatry is lacking the biological evidence that it thought it would have by now. A quick look through the DSM-IV-TR will tell you this. The great majority of the disorders in there can't be diagnosed by any physical signs. That's a problem. Modern psychiatry doesn't really know what most mental disorders are, physically. Hallucinogens are wonderful in research because they can produce states of consciousness which somewhat resemble mental illnesses.

I'm skeptical that any hallucinogen will find itself being used in medicine even within the next century. What I think is most likely is that hallucinogens will play a central role in figuring out how the psychotic disorders (like Schizophrenia) work, which will help people figure out how to treat them.

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Re: ChinaCat, Its getting sickening [Re: Phencyclidine]
    #1780290 -

"Finally, LSD isn't known to treat any medical condition, so what does morphine possibly have to do with any of this?"

um you said that medicine does not concern itself with helping people enjoy their lives more.

I was describing medicines that help people enjoy their lives better. Morphine doesnt heal anything or prevent anything from getting worse. It is used so that people in pain can enjoy their lives more and do the simple things that the pain interferes with. By saying medicine desnt concern itself with helping people enjoy their lives more, you are sayng morphine is not a medicine.


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:shocked: *Divine Moments of Truth* :shocked:


"Limitless undying love which shines around me like a million suns - it calls me on and on across the universe" ~ John Lennon

"Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right" ~The Grateful Dead

"Religionists, with their guaranteed eventual paradise, of which they know nothing, taking it all on 'faith,' can't be expected to understand or sympathize with those with a yen to storm the Gate of Heaven and see for themselves what all the praying's about!" ~Robert Hunter

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Re: ChinaCat, Its getting sickening [Re: Phencyclidine]
    #1780291 -

True Say... I think research may get done, but it most certainly be comming out of the US, which is unfortunate as their pharmaceutical companies make 150 billion a year (source unknown); They should have some scratch left over to pass a billion into research that could potentially treat these disorders. That and hopefully more technological advancements in the neurological field relating to the physical symptoms exhibited by these patients.


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Re: ChinaCat, Its getting sickening [Re: blink]
    #1780298 -

I think LSD and other powerful hallucinagen's show great promise in addiction therapy aswell as psychotic disorders.

It is a pity research isnt being done more..

(tuesday widespread panic are on Jay leno...just thot id mention that)


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GO OUTSIDE.

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Re: ChinaCat, Its getting sickening [Re: Help on the Way]
    #1780324 -

What the fuck? I already explained it above and I never said that morphine is not a medicine. Pain has negative symptoms. Pain is an indication of poor health.

Morphine treats pain. Pain is not healthy. Thus, morphine is a medicine.

Substance Y makes you happy. This does not necessary make substance Y a medicine. It will depend on whether or not it is safe and effective.

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Re: ChinaCat, Its getting sickening [Re: PDU]
    #1780333 -

re: addiction disorders

Maybe. I remember reading in Jansen's "Ketamine: Dreams in Realities" that he speculated that perhaps in cultures where people didn't drink alcohol, perhaps even alcohol could be used as a psychedelic drug to cure drug addiction. "Set and Setting", right?

I think that there will be a big revolution in psychiatry emphasizing that the brain is plastic. Culture becomes a physical part of the brain. Symbols have physical power (eg// the symbol of the doctor has a physical power, explaining placebo). These are all hypothesis, supported by evidence, which medical anthropologists and anthropological psychiatrists have been doing a lot of work on. I think that if psychedelics do find use it will be in exploiting the symbollic power that psychedelics have for some people. Whether or not it will prove more effective than any other type of symbollic healing, I don't know.

BTW, there are psychiatrists who work with medicine men and shamans. These are western trained psychiatrists, too. The movement towards increased cultural sensitivity and recognizing the plasticity of the brain and symbollic power began when psychiatrists starting realizing that the physical evidence just isn't coming in fast enough.

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Re: ChinaCat, Its getting sickening [Re: Phencyclidine]
    #1780592 -

I think a major part of the discrepancy here is cause by the fact that psychology is barely a science if it is a science at all.


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https://www.gofundme.com/f/support-for-renee-goods-wife-and-son

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Re: ChinaCat, Its getting sickening [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1780599 -

LOL. I really don't have any faith in psychology. IMO, it barely qualifies as something that should be studied (no offense to the psychologists or psychology majors reading this).

Psychiatry on the other hand I admire. It looks for illness. It searches for biological causes. It searches for ways to treat disorders. It has it's problems but it's not like psychology.

I feel like psychology is always suffering from the classical psychological problem of projection, in that it's projecting its own psychology onto other people. LOL.

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Re: ChinaCat, Its getting sickening [Re: Phencyclidine]
    #1780602 -

LSD= Psychological drug

Prozac= Psychiatric drug

LSD makes well people better.


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https://www.gofundme.com/f/support-for-renee-goods-wife-and-son

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Re: ChinaCat, Its getting sickening [Re: Drummer]
    #1780670 -

I met two members of the "family" at "The big green gathering" in the uk, and i must say, there thoughts, help and idears were beautiful.
There advise on how to go from here was exallent, and there spirits were so far away from the money machine that i can only say, i do not agree :-(



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Re: ChinaCat, Its getting sickening [Re: Phencyclidine]
    #1780693 -

i hate cid and couldnt imagine it doing anything except making someone a little crazy. just look at leary now there was a nut case.

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Re: ChinaCat, Its getting sickening [Re: Lazerouth]
    #1780699 -

Lazerouth said:
i hate cid and couldnt imagine it doing anything except making someone a little crazy. just look at leary now there was a nut case.


Wow, what an educated opinion!


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GO OUTSIDE.

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Re: ChinaCat, Its getting sickening [Re: Phencyclidine]
    #1780802 -

check out albert hoffman's books _insight, outlook_ & _lsd: my problem child_ & you may find that the story of what & why & how he did what he did is not "evil" just because he worked for sandoz...


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old enough to know better
not old enough to care

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Re: ChinaCat, Its getting sickening [Re: gnrm23]
    #1780869 -

& medical uses of psychedelics (e.g. the spring grove MD experiments with terminal cancer patients, stan grof's work, etc. etc...)
www.maps.org/wwwpb/passieintro.shtml
& stuff at www.csp.org & no doubt at www.erowid.org & www.psychedelic-library.org & elsewhere...


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old enough to know better
not old enough to care

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Re: ChinaCat, Its getting sickening [Re: Phencyclidine]
    #1780989 -

Quote:
It is used in research and it is a very valuable research tool, but it's usually used as a 5HT2A agonist


And I use both LSD and psilocybin to treat Atrial fibrllation a heart arrythmia associated with the 5-Ht2 receptor.A sub psychadelic dose relieves symptoms of AF for 30-40 days a full psychadelic dose lasts several months,It is the only treatment I have found effective for my arrythmia.
I was weak tired and anxious due to the chaotic storm of impulses through the atrium of my heart. Psychadelic 5-Ht2 agonists are the only treatment for this condition and medical science is ignoring it.
PS search my first post here and see how my tone has changed!
Thank God for these holy molecules of health
WR


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To old for this place

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Re: ChinaCat, Its getting sickening [Re: gnrm23]
    #1781483 -

gnrm23 said:
check out albert hoffman's books _insight, outlook_ & _lsd: my problem child_ & you may find that the story of what & why & how he did what he did is not "evil" just because he worked for sandoz...


In one of my posts after I said that LSD is evil I said that I don't actually think this. I don't believe in Satan. I don't think chemicals can be good or evil and if they are I don't see any way that I could know about it.

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Re: ChinaCat, Its getting sickening [Re: Phencyclidine]
    #1781705 -

Phencyclidine, to be too scientific is machine-like, and goes against our well. It grants you nothing ,and you learn very little.

Experience itself is what teaches - and true exprience can be interpretted in a matter of ways.


What I'm getting at, is you need to take a deep breath, relax......forget about language for a second, and just feel. Think with your heart, not your mind for a second. (Don't call the police on me, that statement wasn't meant to be literal).


You are looking at this from a linear, scientific standpoint and not from the standpoint of feeling, experience - where reality comes from.



I suggest you take a break from logic, which was invented by humans and not very meritable, and start seeing from your eyes, hearing from your ears, etc. Then maybe you will understand what these fine people are talking about.



I have been awakened, healed, informed, and had many amazing things happen from psychedelics. To try to deny my experience through logic is itself useless, for I know it to be true.

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Re: ChinaCat, Its getting sickening [Re: tekramrepus]
    #1781757 -

On the contrary, I find science to be greatly humanistic. I find science warm and beautiful. Reading about cell biology sends shivers down my spine.

I do have an internal philosophical life that acknowledges that logic may have absolutely no validity and that maybe I can't trust my senses. However, when communicating with the other human beings, I'm assuming that they exist, and thus science seems the most reasonable framework for interaction. I see little point in, for example, seriously taking the approach that Descarte's Evil Demon problem may be the truth when interacting with other people. In fact, taking that approach would seem completely nonsensical.

I like language, but I don't want it to break down into the postmodern mess that I've been exposed to in various places. I like the idea that there is a world somewhere out there that I can actually observe. I seem driven to attempt understanding, so language, order and science feel good to me. Postmodern breakdown of language and philosophical insecurity are unpleasant for me.

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Re: ChinaCat, Its getting sickening [Re: kosmic_charlie]
    #1781779 -

kosmic_charlie said:
I bought a quarter sheet of white blotters in Joliet for $75 and it have any LSD on it.  :frown: 


sorry to hear that man...there was probably like 10 hits of real acid total at that show...if that 


--------------------
:shocked: *Divine Moments of Truth* :shocked:


"Limitless undying love which shines around me like a million suns - it calls me on and on across the universe" ~ John Lennon

"Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right" ~The Grateful Dead

"Religionists, with their guaranteed eventual paradise, of which they know nothing, taking it all on 'faith,' can't be expected to understand or sympathize with those with a yen to storm the Gate of Heaven and see for themselves what all the praying's about!" ~Robert Hunter

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Re: ChinaCat, Its getting sickening [Re: d33p]
    #1782583 -

d33p said:
Ive heard of lsd being used to treat cluster headaches/migraines. NOt sure of the specifices but i deffinatly remember something on it.


MIght work. I -know- Psilocin/Psilobycin are useful for clusters and migranes...


--------------------
"Do we want the stars? We can have them. Can we borrow cups of fire from the sun? We can and must and light the world." --"On the Shoulders of Giants", Ray Bradbury

All of my posts are full of fiction and blatant lies.

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