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Re: Male And Female Circumcision [Re: Shins]
    #16572666 -

You can't fathom it because you're convinced that your view of how the world should work is the only possible correct one...you seem to think that your gut feeling about things are universal truths....


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Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: Male And Female Circumcision [Re: Enlil]
    #16572682 -

Circumcision is grivous bodily harm.

parental consent does not trump a child's right to physical integrity.

I am yet to hear a rational argumant against this, feel free if you have one.


claiming its just my opinion is not an argument, its a cop out.


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http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/

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Re: Male And Female Circumcision [Re: Shins]
    #16572743 -

You have yet to make a rational argument in support of your position.


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Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: Male And Female Circumcision [Re: Enlil]
    #16572782 -

removing ~1/2 the nerves in the penis unecessarly is bodily harm by the legal definition of bodily harm.

It interferes with the sexual health of a person, and causes a baby pain and discomfort.

Germany and other countries think my argument is rational and have taken steps to be civilised.

the ritual is completely unecessary exept in rare cases.

I have made rational arguments, some people just refuse to accept them. 

did you know that women who have their genitals mutilated often also make their daughters do it too?

the only support for circumcision comes from conditioned cultural traditions.

there is no rational basis for circumcision.  religion and conditioned tradition should not trump civil law.


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http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/

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Re: Male And Female Circumcision [Re: Shins]
    #16572850 -

Shins said:
religion and conditioned tradition should not trump civil law.


Under the law, it's legal...so what are you talking about?


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Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: Male And Female Circumcision [Re: Shins]
    #16574362 -

Shins said:
removing ~1/2 the nerves in the penis unecessarly is bodily harm by the legal definition of bodily harm.


you embarrass yourself by talking about legal definitions when circumcision is obviously legal under legal definition
Quote:
Shins said:
It interferes with the sexual health of a person


You can't prove it does because it doesn't. I'm circumcised and have a perfectly healthy sexual life
Quote:
Shins said:
and causes a baby pain and discomfort.


So do many other things rational and legal. vaccinations come to mind
Quote:
Shins said:
Germany and other countries think my argument is rational and have taken steps to be civilised.


This is a perfect example of why I really wish you would educate yourself before you started blathering at the mouth. Germany did not be illegalize circumcision, they had a court ruling against religious circumcision. If you would've actually taken the time to read into it you would know that means that any German can still circumcise their children in a medicinal setting. Don't be mistaken, they are not saying that a medical condition has to exist for circumcision, it just cannot be done under a religious pretext. So in germany, by way of example, I could get my child circumcised because I believe it's cleaner I just couldn't do it because I was muslim or jewish. That just makes things religiously
bigoted.

The moral of the story, is to read, educate yourself,  and then comment on things
Quote:
Shins said:
the ritual is completely unecessary exept in rare cases.


This is the only semi truthful thing you've said in this entire thread. Where you're wrong is that when it's necessary it's not a ritual its  a medical procedure. This is why I didn't circumcise my boys because it probably wasn't necessary
Quote:
Shins said:
I have made rational arguments, some people just refuse to accept them.


More like you haven't made any rational argument so most people don't accept them. Are you honestly implying that we should believe you over the American Urological Association. Ha! what ridiculous nonsense
Quote:
Shins said:
did you know that women who have their genitals mutilated often also make their daughters do it too?

the only support for circumcision comes from conditioned cultural traditions.


I presume you mean except when support comes from non-religious, well accredited organizations like The American Academy of Pediatrics?
Quote:
The American Association of Pediatrics said:
"Existing scientific evidence demonstrates potential medical benefits of newborn male circumcision; however, these data are not sufficient to recommend routine neonatal circumcision. In the case of circumcision, in which there are potential benefits and risks, yet the procedure is not essential to the child's current well-being, parents should determine what is in the best interest of the child."



How about the American Urological Association?
Quote:
The American Urological Association said:
"while the results of studies in African nations may not necessarily be to men in the United States at risk for HIV infection, the American Urological Association recommends that circumcision should be presented as an option for health benefits. Circumcision should not be offered as the only strategy for HIV risk reduction. Other methods of HIV risk reduction, including safe sexual practices, should be emphasized."


What do the Brits make of all this? British Medical Association:
Quote:
The British medical association said:
  “there is significant disagreement about whether circumcision is overall a beneficial, neutral or harmful procedure. At present, the medical literature on the health, including sexual health, implications of circumcision is contradictory, and often subject to claims of bias in research.” [54] As a general rule, the BMA believe that "parents should be entitled to make choices about how best to promote their children’s interests, and it is for society to decide what limits should be imposed on parental choices." They also state that "both parents [...] must give consent for non-therapeutic circumcision", and that parents and children should be provided with up-to-date written information about the risks involved.


You know people that are much smarter than you, and much more educated on the matter then you. they tend to believe there is no general consensus
Quote:
Shins said:
there is no rational basis for circumcision.  religion and conditioned tradition should not trump civil law.


Except that are at times that it's extremely rational. Ever heard of phimosis?


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"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

I think we should cut all the social parasites from their welfare checks. Then they will either find a means to support themselves or starve to death, either of wich is good for the economy and society.

I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal."

"Islam in a man is worse then rabies in a dog"

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Re: Male And Female Circumcision [Re: Simplicitry]
    #16574723 -

There are rare cases where theraputic circumcision may be necessary and im not agsinst that as per germany.

all other unessecary circumcisions should be enforced under bodily harm.

again, most major medical associations do not reccomend circumcision for non-theraputic reasons.

Im really disappointed that people still think that genital mutilation is o.k.

circumcision removes half the sensitiviti of the penis.

in the past circumcision was encouraged to prevent boys from masturbation by reducing their ability for pleasure.

thats almost exactly the same reason females were often mutilated - to reduce sexual oleasure.

If youve been circumcised and say "my sex life is fine im happy i was circumcised"  it sure looks like sour grapes.  you have had half your pleasure sensors removed and you dont know what you are missing.

one day when we are more civilised we will look at male genital mutilation the same way we look at female genital mutilation - sick and wrong.


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http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/

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Re: Male And Female Circumcision [Re: Shins]
    #16575281 -

You pulled that right out of your ass.

As per Germany? How about you educate yourself on that case before you embarrass yourself with your ignorance on it again.

Half of sexual sensitivity? Provide a source or it's bullshit

The funniest and most bat shit crazy thing you came up with is that it originates from trying to reduce sexual pleasure and thus masturbation.:laugh2: How fucking moronic!

Earlier you said it originated from Egyptians circumcising their Jewish slaves as identification. :laugh2: Which one is it genius?

Let me clue you in my special little friend, the origins of circumcision are unknown.

Back up the claims you make our it's bullshit


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"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

I think we should cut all the social parasites from their welfare checks. Then they will either find a means to support themselves or starve to death, either of wich is good for the economy and society.

I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal."

"Islam in a man is worse then rabies in a dog"

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Re: Male And Female Circumcision [Re: Shins]
    #16575383 -

Shins said:
removing ~1/2 the nerves in the penis unecessarly is bodily harm by the legal definition of bodily harm.

:rofl2:

It interferes with the sexual health of a person, and causes a baby pain and discomfort.

It is an effective deterrent of AIDS

Germany and other countries think my argument is rational and have taken steps to be civilised.

Let's remember what Germans consider rational

the ritual is completely unecessary exept in rare cases.

All rituals are unnecessary

I have made rational arguments, some people just refuse to accept them.

You have exposed yourself as a marginal loon

did you know that women who have their genitals mutilated often also make their daughters do it too?

Yes, that is true

the only support for circumcision comes from conditioned cultural traditions.

False.  There are medical reasons

there is no rational basis for circumcision.  religion and conditioned tradition should not trump civil law.

You should not trump civil law


And then finally we come to your real concern, revealed when you mentioned the sucking thing, which is only practiced by a very tiny percentage of Mohels (Jewish circumcision practitioners).  If the JOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOS do it you are against it.  Go back to Coeur D'Alene


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Re: Male And Female Circumcision [Re: Simplicitry]
    #16575847 -

Its wrong to do to a child.

wait until they are adults to decide for themself.  You can use condoms and safe sex, or you can chop your foreskin off and go wild with a marginally lower risk of infection. The science of the lowered infection rates is not even fully substantiated.  Children dont normally have sex then get AIDS.

Its a dumb cultural tradition that people have tried to justify with all kinds of different reasons in the past after the fact.


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http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/

Edited by Shins (07/23/12 08:24 PM)

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Re: Male And Female Circumcision [Re: Shins]
    #16575850 -

Its also a billion dollar industry.


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http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/

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Re: Male And Female Circumcision [Re: Shins]
    #16578090 -

you must be trolling just to keep beating this dead horse. Thank you for your 1000% redundantly stated opinion which few others care about or identify with.

please go away now and leave me to enjoy my nice looking penis.


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notapillow said: "you are going about this endeavor all wrong. clear your mind of useless fear and concern. buy the ticket, take the ride, and all that.... "

ChrisWho said: "It's all about the journey, not the destination."

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Re: Male And Female Circumcision [Re: Mickalopagus]
    #16578109 -

mick said:
you must be trolling just to keep beating this dead horse. Thank you for your 1000% redundantly stated opinion which few others care about or identify with.

please go away now and leave me to enjoy my nice looking penis.


:raisemyglass:

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Re: Male And Female Circumcision [Re: Toqom]
    #16578391 -

ones sexual organs are the most important to people, and children. For adults to mutilate them without a child's consent, or babies--and first a baby couldn't, and a child is at the mercy of the giants around her or him they trust--is utterly wrong. I don't care what a law says. I have no respect for ALL law just because it is law. How can people who frequent a forum dedicated to psychedelics claim the law is right regardless...? Who MAKES the law? Who is making the law that corporations are 'persons' and they have no obligation to not pollute nature, and destroy ecosystems, and carry out genocide on indigenous people. Do you agree with THAT law 'because it is law'? So why then agree with laws that mutilate babies and children's sexual organs?

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Re: Male And Female Circumcision [Re: zzripz]
    #16578580 -

zzripz said:
ones sexual organs are the most important to people, and children. For adults to mutilate them without a child's consent, or babies--and first a baby couldn't, and a child is at the mercy of the giants around her or him they trust--is utterly wrong. I don't care what a law says. I have no respect for ALL law just because it is law. How can people who frequent a forum dedicated to psychedelics claim the law is right regardless...? Who MAKES the law? Who is making the law that corporations are 'persons' and they have no obligation to not pollute nature, and destroy ecosystems, and carry out genocide on indigenous people. Do you agree with THAT law 'because it is law'? So why then agree with laws that mutilate babies and children's sexual organs?


Hahahahaha You veered so far off topic you crashed into a tree of stupidity and killed your credibility:laugh2:


--------------------

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

I think we should cut all the social parasites from their welfare checks. Then they will either find a means to support themselves or starve to death, either of wich is good for the economy and society.

I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal."

"Islam in a man is worse then rabies in a dog"

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Re: Male And Female Circumcision [Re: Shins]
    #16578647 -

I've based my belief that, while I will not circumcise my sons, it should be legal on the word of The American Pediatric Association, The American Urological Association, The Brittish Medical Association

You have so far claimed that medical associations are strictly against it despite being provided with their policy statement that claim otherwise

That it reduces sexual sensitivity by half. A claim you can't back up

That it originated from a desire to reduce sexual sensitivity and  thus masturbation:laugh2: Oh no wait it originated from Egyptians circumcising there slaves for identification :laugh2:  When the origins of circumcision are unknown

You have embarrassed yourself terribly in this thread


--------------------

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

I think we should cut all the social parasites from their welfare checks. Then they will either find a means to support themselves or starve to death, either of wich is good for the economy and society.

I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal."

"Islam in a man is worse then rabies in a dog"

Edited by Simplicitry (07/24/12 10:40 AM)

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Re: Male And Female Circumcision [Re: Mickalopagus]
    #16580654 -

mick said:
you must be trolling just to keep beating this dead horse. Thank you for your 1000% redundantly stated opinion which few others care about or identify with.

please go away now and leave me to enjoy my nice looking penis.


No, he just hates anyhting that is associated with JOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOS


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Re: Male And Female Circumcision [Re: zappaisgod]
    #16580847 -

muslims, christians, atheists, and others circumcise too genius.

im against infant genital mutilation.

many jews just happen to practice the tradition of it.

why do you defend the stupid aspects of judaism so much if you are an atheist like you say?


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http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/

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Re: Male And Female Circumcision [Re: Shins]
    #16581236 -

Shins said:
muslims, christians, atheists, and others circumcise too genius.


I am fully aware of that but it is most associated with the JOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOS and you hate JOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOS.
Quote:
im against infant genital mutilation.

many jews just happen to practice the tradition of it.

why do you defend the stupid aspects of judaism so much if you are an atheist like you say?


I don't defend the stupid aspects of Judaism.  I am personally glad that I was circumsized as an infant.  It has health benefits and from my understanding are much easier to maintain.  I knew somebody who had to get circumsized as an adult for health reasons.  He said it was an unholy nightmare.

Let me say this again so it will finally sink in.  I am glad that I was circumsized as an infant.  Now go paint a swastika with your smegma.


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Re: Male And Female Circumcision [Re: zappaisgod]
    #16581674 -

Fuck you, i ain't got no smegma... usually...

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