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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Groundwork of the metaphysics of morals
    #16398814 -

By Immanuel Kant...

So there is only a handful
Of threads in morality in this forum , which are years old and kind of skewed in my personal opinion.
Has anyone read kants groundwork?!
If so the kingdom of ends is quite the fantastical idea and obvi pretty utopian... But to me if our species is to thrive these ideas should be taken hold of...
The general ideas are great and even if all the men/women that are capable adopted this as their basic blueprint for life and the actions that lie therein... Then we could maybe consider the overall morality of man?
His basic ideas (from what I gather) are that morals person to person are quite subjective... But morality as a whole is more objective... The thought that with true reason/will man can always strive for moral action as a duty not as a means to an end is perfection in my eyes...
Idk I'd like to discuss... If possible ... I'm still reading/analyzing do I'd be cool...

Just thought there should be more on the subject here considering the intellectual capacity of this community and the resounding good that most on the shroomery tend to hold as their norm...

1L


--------------------
hmm...

"I'm naked and fearless... And my fear is naked."

"life isn't worth living without the threat of death"

"I got my plans in a ziploc bag, let's see how unproductive we can be"

"nobody lives their lives fully except for bull fighters"

My Trade List

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Re: Groundwork of the metaphysics of morals [Re: ashfiken]
    #16399007 -

What do you mean  by thrive?  Our species does thrive.

It's fun to discuss this of course but imo it has no relevance to the reality of the situation. By that I mean things aren't about to change because you or Kant thinks it should.  Or as Mr. Natural sez: "twas ever thus"


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Groundwork of the metaphysics of morals [Re: ashfiken]
    #16399011 -

Quote:
Of threads in morality in this forum , which are years old and kind of skewed in my personal opinion.


If those threads agreed with you then they would not be skewed?

Quote:
Just thought there should be more on the subject here


Reality should conform to your expectations?


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Re: Groundwork of the metaphysics of morals [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #16399113 -

No reality is only what individuals make of it... You , i , etc..The beauty of life... What if we all really have the same expectations on a very basic truly good level? Have you read the work im spraking of? And no I just mean skewed as in they don't really maintain and hold a focus on the real discussion of morality....
I don't mean they are flawed in their own manner...

And I also wouldn't call what the majority of the globe does "thrive" in my opinion but I mean to really thrive as we are undoubtedly meant to- in unconditional love- and unity completely and dfinitively... Of course if you think money garbling systems of power and ownership is a thriving human race then.. Yes this would be a nonissue for you... Kindly noted

1L


--------------------
hmm...

"I'm naked and fearless... And my fear is naked."

"life isn't worth living without the threat of death"

"I got my plans in a ziploc bag, let's see how unproductive we can be"

"nobody lives their lives fully except for bull fighters"

My Trade List

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Groundwork of the metaphysics of morals [Re: Icelander]
    #16399130 -

And yes it is just fun to discuss! I am of course not crazy enough to think a majority or anyone would ever listen to Kant or I... But I think it's such an ideal that would be capable of ALSOthriving in this world given that enough rational beings to adopt what is talked about as the kingdom of ends!

1L


--------------------
hmm...

"I'm naked and fearless... And my fear is naked."

"life isn't worth living without the threat of death"

"I got my plans in a ziploc bag, let's see how unproductive we can be"

"nobody lives their lives fully except for bull fighters"

My Trade List

Edited by ashfiken (06/18/12 10:34 AM)

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Re: Groundwork of the metaphysics of morals [Re: ashfiken]
    #16399136 -

What we 'should' do - is to reply to the person to whom we are addressing.

Quote:
but I mean to really thrive as we are undoubtedly meant to


If we were 'meant to' (whatever that means) then we would be doing so. This is self-evident.


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Re: Groundwork of the metaphysics of morals [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #16399187 -

No because IMO  kant/I don't feel like everyone or enough can be considered "rational "beings at this time on earth.
(as far as It "seems" so  far as global situations ,ideals and true fact experiences happening everywhere to everyone, that do not pertain to a possibly achieved harmony)
to come to the "meant to "conclusion... Of a wholly "good" place
All this is theory of course my friend and you are picking apart my words instead of discussing what is derived from the article in discussion....

1L


--------------------
hmm...

"I'm naked and fearless... And my fear is naked."

"life isn't worth living without the threat of death"

"I got my plans in a ziploc bag, let's see how unproductive we can be"

"nobody lives their lives fully except for bull fighters"

My Trade List

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Groundwork of the metaphysics of morals [Re: ashfiken]
    #16399194 -

Kant would of course have said "should" my fallacy at that


--------------------
hmm...

"I'm naked and fearless... And my fear is naked."

"life isn't worth living without the threat of death"

"I got my plans in a ziploc bag, let's see how unproductive we can be"

"nobody lives their lives fully except for bull fighters"

My Trade List

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Groundwork of the metaphysics of morals [Re: ashfiken]
    #16399752 -

So no one in the philososophy forum takes time to read/analyze other philosophers work?
Or Kant just not popular here?
Although Icelander is right it isn't that relevant of a situation but still nice to entertain the idea?! And to discuss the possibility of real human morality as a norm instead of the current and past norms...
Someone must've read Kant...
I'll be patient..

1L


--------------------
hmm...

"I'm naked and fearless... And my fear is naked."

"life isn't worth living without the threat of death"

"I got my plans in a ziploc bag, let's see how unproductive we can be"

"nobody lives their lives fully except for bull fighters"

My Trade List

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Groundwork of the metaphysics of morals [Re: ashfiken]
    #16399822 -

ashfiken said:
And yes it is just fun to discuss! I am of course not crazy enough to think a majority or anyone would ever listen to Kant or I... But I think it's such an ideal that would be capable of ALSOthriving in this world given that enough rational beings to adopt what is talked about as the kingdom of ends!

1L


http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/all-watched-over-by-machines-of-loving-grace/


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Groundwork of the metaphysics of morals [Re: Icelander]
    #16400007 -

Quite interesting for sure..
Haha this is relishable:

" argues it is because all political dreams of changing the world for the better seem to have failed – so we have retreated into machine-fantasies that say we have no control over our actions because they excuse our failure."

It sucks when a human retreats to thinking they have one failed and two lost control...

Thank you for the discussion via link!


--------------------
hmm...

"I'm naked and fearless... And my fear is naked."

"life isn't worth living without the threat of death"

"I got my plans in a ziploc bag, let's see how unproductive we can be"

"nobody lives their lives fully except for bull fighters"

My Trade List

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Groundwork of the metaphysics of morals [Re: ashfiken]
    #16400268 -

I find value in science fiction.  It fuels inspiration and surprisingly can be quite foretelling. I don't see anything wrong with similarly exploring the potential for morality.

There is certainly evidence that morality influences human capability.  Look at the world today, if we all stuck to cultural centrism, we wouldn't be interacting as a planet in a constructive way, which I believe is a great goal.  Acceptance, open mindedness, inclusiveness, these are morals which bring us together and help us solve problems.  Assuming there is enough evidence to back up morality, faith is not a requirement.


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Re: Groundwork of the metaphysics of morals [Re: ashfiken]
    #16400295 -

Humans think all sorts of silly things.  Failed?  What's that supposed to mean?  How can we fail? We all die, you can only fail at being immortal. :monkeydance::haha:

What I took away from that little series and something I've been considering for some time is that nothing is known or knowable and nothing is true or false.  This brings us to finding our solace only in a little concept CCs Don Juan called, "Having to Believe" and is directly connected imo to what he called a "Path with Heart".

This makes things very mysterious indeed if you take the time to notice. :bashful:

And so the idea of morals becomes moot imo.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Groundwork of the metaphysics of morals [Re: Icelander]
    #16400323 -

Truth is relative to the path chosen.  For most of us, science gives statistics for how to achieve a given goal, and it is truth in this regard.  The only thing we have to believe is our path, because we choose it.


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Re: Groundwork of the metaphysics of morals [Re: Smitington]
    #16401253 -

Yes


--------------------
hmm...

"I'm naked and fearless... And my fear is naked."

"life isn't worth living without the threat of death"

"I got my plans in a ziploc bag, let's see how unproductive we can be"

"nobody lives their lives fully except for bull fighters"

My Trade List

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Groundwork of the metaphysics of morals [Re: ashfiken]
    #16401374 -

I believe I've failed at life only when I fail to do what I believe to be my moral path.
And in morality as a whole this becomes something like you said open-minded mess and the like...
If everyone can come to back morality, at it's basis, to be "universal law"

1L


--------------------
hmm...

"I'm naked and fearless... And my fear is naked."

"life isn't worth living without the threat of death"

"I got my plans in a ziploc bag, let's see how unproductive we can be"

"nobody lives their lives fully except for bull fighters"

My Trade List

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Groundwork of the metaphysics of morals [Re: ashfiken]
    #16401856 -

how do you think kants morality would pann out if it were applied to lion and buck (if they could speak to eachother/shared a capacity for reason)?

serious quesiton.

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Re: Groundwork of the metaphysics of morals [Re: quinn]
    #16401872 -

I'd like to answer you but sadly idk anything of lion and buck... Maybe an overview on their thinkin for example the " existentialism" of Kant...

1L


--------------------
hmm...

"I'm naked and fearless... And my fear is naked."

"life isn't worth living without the threat of death"

"I got my plans in a ziploc bag, let's see how unproductive we can be"

"nobody lives their lives fully except for bull fighters"

My Trade List

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Groundwork of the metaphysics of morals [Re: ashfiken]
    #16401894 -

i just mean two animals in predator prey relation.

why do you need to 'know their thinking' if you and they share the same capacity for reason?


--------------------
dripping with fantasy

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Re: Groundwork of the metaphysics of morals [Re: quinn]
    #16401949 -

I thought you were referring to some study or philosophers... Gaha I'm quite sorry... And I think predator/prey relationship and their is a bit different than the active and sentient human ability to reason through other acts above a generally animalistic level...
Although if they COULD communicate I'd say the buck would ask what kind of a sick man/creature puts heads on the wall...
And the lion may ask how he could be kept so hungry?

Animals must kill "inferior" prey as we must... No morality issue there.

1L


--------------------
hmm...

"I'm naked and fearless... And my fear is naked."

"life isn't worth living without the threat of death"

"I got my plans in a ziploc bag, let's see how unproductive we can be"

"nobody lives their lives fully except for bull fighters"

My Trade List

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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