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Invisiblechinacat72
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Registered: 11/14/02
Posts: 3,626
Loc: Terrapin Station
Re: The "THUMBPRINT" [Re: j_s] * 3
    #1604769 - 06/03/03 01:25 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

All psychedelics are seen as gifts. :grin: 


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Some rise
Some fall
Some climb
To get to Terrapin!!!

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Offlinej_s
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Re: The [Re: chinacat72]
    #1607666 - 06/04/03 11:09 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Glad to hear it!

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InvisibleCLuB99
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Re: The "THUMBPRINT" [Re: chinacat72]
    #1617884 - 06/08/03 07:43 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

thanks for sharing man, greatest post ever! (along with that one in the OD forum  :smile:)    

you and whiterasta (and the other guys of the family) should really write a book! 

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InvisibleRipple
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Re: The "THUMBPRINT" [Re: Learyfan]
    #1617931 - 06/08/03 08:27 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

This thread is such a great read! :cool:

Thanks for sharing these wonderful experiences with us!

There was a time when I considered myself to be very experienced with LSD after several hundred trips in the 70's to the mid 80's but now I realize i only scratched the surface. My highest dose was probably 4 or 5 hits of Window pane in or around 1975. God, and I thought that was a life altering experience! I can't even imagine the intensity of the trips you guys are talking about! 


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The bus came by and I got on that's when it all began!


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OfflineLearyfanS
It's the psychedelic movement!
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Re: The "THUMBPRINT" [Re: Ripple]
    #1618207 - 06/08/03 11:26 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah.

My trips must have been like eating a Leary biscuit compared to a guy snorting crystal LSD.




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--------------------------------


Mp3 of the month:  Noah's Ark - Love In


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OfflinePala
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Registered: 05/27/03
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Re: The [Re: Learyfan]
    #1618350 - 06/08/03 12:37 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

chinacat-Any advice on how to prepare oneself for a high dose trip, as I'm planning a high dose mushroom + MAOI (Syrian Rue) trip for later this summer. I've been preparing for this for a month or two and have about 1.5-2 months to go. So now I'm just trying to gather as much info and advice as possible and cover all my bases. You obviously have a lot of experience, so would you mind describing the mental and physical preparation that would be helpful for the experience? It seems from the discussion in this thread and in "LSD: Crystal to Blotter" that one needs to completely submit to the psychedelic state. In preparation for a high dose trip, I plan to meditate a lot, read a lot, listen to a lot of my favorite music beforehand, walk in nature, get plenty of sleep, and just think. Also, I plan to have some fairly high dose trips stopping about 2-3 weeks before the big one. Anything else can/should do?

Of course, I'll have a sitter (though I'm sure I won't be getting up anyway) and will observe the MAOI dietary restrictions.


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huh????

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Invisiblechinacat72
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Re: The [Re: Pala] * 2
    #1619078 - 06/08/03 07:32 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

You sound like you have the right idea. You definatley need to fast for at least 24 hours beforehand. Just be ready to let go, but on a high dose you don't have a choice. The more you cling to yourself on the way up the more painful it is.
Be humble and try to dispell any fear beforehand.

Other than that there's not really anything thats going to prepare you for the experiance. As your ego vaporizes and you go out you'll come to the realization that your actually experiancing death. Let it happen,because at that point you have no choice. Then you are gone, or I should say then you are  "ALL".

Upon your return to the physical world take your time. Don't try to figure stuff out to fast. You have the rest of your life to figure out what happened. Stay in the moment as long as possible. You will return eventually, but your perspective will be very different.

    "If I knew the way, I would take you home" :laugh: 


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Some rise
Some fall
Some climb
To get to Terrapin!!!

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OfflinePala
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Re: The [Re: chinacat72]
    #1619157 - 06/08/03 08:06 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Thanks a bunch, chinacat! Your advice sounds great and should be very helpful. And by the way, I absolutely love that quote. As I said in a thread started by Ripple, that song (Ripple) is my favorite song of all time. To me, it expresses the meaning of the life. Thanks again,

Pala


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huh????

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Anonymous

Re: The [Re: Pala] * 1
    #1623333 - 06/10/03 09:13 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

for better or worse, gonna stick this in here.

MESSAGE TO GARCIA
by Ken Kesey
October, 1995

Hey Jerry ~

What's happening? I caught your funeral. Weird. Big Steve was good. And Grisman. Sweet sounds. But what really stood out - stands out - is the thundering silence, the lack, the absence of that golden Garcia lead line, of that familiar slick lick with the uptwist at the end, that merry snake twining through the woodpile, flickering in and out of the loosely stacked chords ... a wriggling mystery, bright and slick as fire ... suddenly gone.

And the silence left in its wake was - is - positively earsplitting.

Now they want me to say something about that absence, Jer. But I have to tell you, man: I find myself considerably disinclined. I mean, why go against the grain of such an eloquent silence?

I remember standing out in the pearly early dawn after the Muir Beach Acid Test, leaning on the top rail of a driftwood fence with you and Lesh and Babbs, watching the world light up, talking about our glorious futures. The gig had been semisuccessful, and the air was full of exulted fantasies. Babbs whacks Phil on the back.

"Just like the big time, huh, Phil."

"It is! It is the big time! Why, we could cut a chart-busting record to-fucking-morrow."

I was even more optimistic: "Hey, we taped tonight's show. We could release a record tomorrow."

"Yeah, right --" (holding up that digitally challenged hand the way you did when you wanted to call attention to the truth or the lack thereof) " -- and a year from tomorrow be recording a 'Things Go Better With Coke' commercial."

You could be a sharp-tongued popper-of-balloons shithead when you were so inclined, you know. A real bastard. You were the sworn enemy of hot air and commercials, however righteous the cause or lucrative the product. Nobody ever heard you use that microphone as a pulpit. No antiwar rants, no hymns to peace. No odes to the trees and All Things Organic. No ego-deaths or born-againnesses. No devils denounced, no gurus glorified. No dogmatic howlings that I ever caught wind of. In fact, your steadfast denial of dogma was as close as you ever came to having a creed.

And to the very end, Old Timer, you were true to that creed. No commercials. No trendy spins. No bayings of belief. And if you did have any dogma, you surely kept it tied up under the back porch, where a smelly old hound belongs.

I guess that's what I mean about a loud silence. Like Michelangelo said about sculpting: "The statue exists inside the block of marble. All you have to do is chip away the stone you don't need." You were always chipping away at the superficial.

It was the false notes you didn't play that kept that lead line so golden pure. I was the words you didn't sing. So this is what we are left with, Jerry: this golden silence. It rings on and on without any hint of letup ... on and on. And I expect it will still be ringing for years from now.

Because you're still not playing falsely. Because you're still not singing "Things Go Better With Coke."

Ever your friend,
KEEZ

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OfflineyelimS
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Re: The [Re: ]
    #1626871 - 06/11/03 04:33 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

ok, turbotrippers, who to trust?

LD50 SOURCES
Clinical Management of Poisoning and Drug Overdose
by Haddad Winchester
page 459:
"No well-documented human deaths resulting directly from the toxic effects of LSD itself have occurred, though LSD has been implicated in accidental deaths, suicides, and homicides. LD50 (That's lethal dose in 50% of those who injest this much) determinations vary widely with species, begin 46 mg/kg in mice, 16.5 mg/kg in rats, 0.3 mg/kg in rabbits and 0.1 mg/kg in elephants. In monkeys, the LD100 is 5 mg/kg. Death in these animals is the result of respiratory failure, preceded in the rabbit by marked hyperthermia. Human data are manifestly lacking, and predictions of the average lethal dose for humans have ranged from 0.2 mg/kg to more than 1 mg/kg, administered orally. Pharmacotheon by Ott
by Jonathon Ott
p.139
"I must emphasize that there is no danger of death or injury from overdose of LSD, which must have about the highest therapeutic index of any drug known (the ratio of fatal dose to effective dose is unknown since no human being has ever died from an overdose of LSD, but must be very high, as individuals have mistakenly ingested hundreds of doses at a sitting; this is a way of saying that the drug is not at all toxic)."
Psychedelics Encyclopedia
Peter Stafford
p.70
"For those concerned about immediate medical hazards in ingesting LSD...Abram Hoffer has estimated, on the basis of animal studies, that the half-lethal human dose--meaning half would die--would be about 14,000 [ug]. But one person who took 40,000 ug survived. In the only case of death reportedly caused by overdose (Journal of the Kentucky Medical Association), the quantity of LSD in the blood indicated that 320,000 ug had been injected intravenously."
Misc References*
by K Trout
Based on the real world murder of lab animals the following results HAVE been published for LD50 studies of LSD-25:
(Please bear in mind that an oral LD50 is commonly 2 or 3X an intravenous LD50)

Mouse (intravenous) 46 mg/ kg (citing Rothlin & Cerletti (1957) Ann. NY Acad. Sci. 66: 668)
65 mg/ kg (citing information provided by Sandoz Pharmaceuticals)


Rat (intravenous) 16.5 mg/ kg (citing Rothlin & Cerletti (1957) above)



I omitted the rabbit figures as rabbits are extremely overly sensitive to all the major hallucinogens except for mescaline and similar. Source for the above was Usdin & Efron (1979) Psychotropic Drugs and Related Compounds (2nd Edition).
Please also note the values above are given as mg/kg of body weight not as simple mg doses. They suggest a human dose, regardless of the route of administration, would be radically greater than 14 mg.
If averaging the low and high values above, the value obtained is ~41 mg/ kg of body weight. Since this is an IV value (& assuming people respond like rodents)an oral LD50 would likely be in excess of 80 mg/kg (Meaning it would take just over 5 grams for someone of my body weight).
Even taking the lowest figure (16 mg/kg) we still wind up with an LD50 of more than a gram of acid for a 65 kg human; even if using the IV figure as an oral one!
If anyone knows where Hoffer derived his figures, we'd love to know.
Related references (taken from p 70 of Stafford's Psychedelic's Encyclopedia):
For the 320 mg of LSD injected intravenously under the mistaken idea it was speed (this killed the user and appears to be the only instance of death by LSD overdose), the reference is: Journal of the Kentucky Medical Association 75: 172-173 (I have been unable to obtain a hardcopy of this).
For the dinner party where a bindle of pure crystalline LSD was confused with another one of cocaine and this case of mistaken identity resulted in two fat lines being chopped out and snorted by the 8 people attending: Klock et al. (1975) Clinical Toxicology Volume #8 Issue #2.

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Invisiblechinacat72
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Posts: 3,626
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Re: The [Re: yelimS] * 1
    #1627056 - 06/11/03 05:54 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:


(this killed the user and appears to be the only instance of death by LSD overdose), 




Read the full text of the journal. The doctor states that there is no physiological proof that the LSD killed him. They just assumed it was the LSD since he shot so much. There guess is he stopped breathing due to the LSD. He shot over 3/10th's of a gram. That would equal out to many grams orally. How a person could shoot that much LSD and not know it is crazy. I guess he didn't get any on his fingers. Must have been a hell of a suprise. :tongue:

The LD-50's listed are all educated guess's . 5 grams would be a lot of LSD to consume. I don't think you could keep it down. It is said there is a guy who ate 2 grams of fluff. He puked about a minute after he ate it so he didn't consume nearlly 2 grams. I doubt we'll ever know the true LD-50 of LSD since nobody is ever going to consume that much.

 


--------------------
Some rise
Some fall
Some climb
To get to Terrapin!!!

Edited by chinacat72 (06/11/03 06:04 PM)

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OfflinePhluck
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Re: The [Re: chinacat72]
    #1627145 - 06/11/03 06:46 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

I wish I had the link, but in the case where the guys snorted crystal, their had a very fast heartbeat, and increased blood pressure while under the influence. They came out fine, but the doctor who wrote the report mentioned that someone with a pre-existing heart problem could have easily suffered a heart attack.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Invisiblechinacat72
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Re: The [Re: Phluck] * 1
    #1627164 - 06/11/03 06:53 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Skydiving or sex could be said to do the same. I imagine it's a pretty intense experiance to snort lines of crystal. I had a friend who snorted it, but I never did.
My brains start's to crackle just thinking about it. :smile: 


--------------------
Some rise
Some fall
Some climb
To get to Terrapin!!!

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Invisibletruekimbo2
Cya later, friends.
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Re: The [Re: chinacat72]
    #1732621 - 07/20/03 03:13 PM (21 years, 4 days ago)

do you think poeple who prefer the darker side of life (suffering? i don't know a better way to put it) would have kind of the opposite type of trip if they thumbprinted? or do you think that eventually the good always wins.

i know some poeple who when they use psychedelics get thier negative beliefs reenforced, thats why i ask.


--------------------
You can check the last post in my journal for contact info.

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Invisiblechinacat72
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Re: The [Re: truekimbo2] * 2
    #1732756 - 07/20/03 04:05 PM (21 years, 4 days ago)

Quote:


i know some poeple who when they use psychedelics get thier negative beliefs reenforced, thats why i ask.




On a thumbprint size dosage you no longer have any beliefs. There is no you. Reactions can vary on the way up, but soon all your beliefs, attitudes and perceptions completly vaporize along with physical reality.
None of it survives a print. There is no I anymore only ALL. Afterwards your beliefs are very different or they may be similar if your beliefs were close to the truth to begin with.

People can bullshit there way threw alot of intense psychedelic experiances. Somehow they can hold onto there twisted ego games sometimes. On a thumbprint thats not even a possibility. You can't bullshit Eternity when it's blasting you to pieces. The more you try to hold on the quicker and harder it burns you. You dissolve and dissolve till theres no you left to hold on.

On a print you can go quietly and easily or you can go kicking and screaming, but you are going to go no matter what.


--------------------
Some rise
Some fall
Some climb
To get to Terrapin!!!

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InvisibleWorld Spirit
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Re: The [Re: chinacat72]
    #1732798 - 07/20/03 04:18 PM (21 years, 4 days ago)

Deleted by admin

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OfflinePDU
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Re: The [Re: World Spirit]
    #1732829 - 07/20/03 04:39 PM (21 years, 4 days ago)

Quote:

Enter said:
Interesting yet very fearful words, my friend.

How can a man possibly committ himself to such an experience?

It seems far more risky and dangerous than I can imagine. Is there anyone whom whe can read about (and who has been in the public eye) that has taken a print (or several prints)?






I would commit myself to the experience, although i would probably want to prep myself with some more high doses beforehand. Why? Many reasons, curiosity, search for understanding, just because you can? Im sure there are varied reasons....
I dont see too too much danger or risk in it..


--------------------
GO OUTSIDE.

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Invisiblechinacat72
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Posts: 3,626
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Re: The [Re: World Spirit] * 1
    #1732877 - 07/20/03 04:56 PM (21 years, 4 days ago)

Fearful to those without faith. People who have only taken small doses and are still untrusting of the experiance of eternity should stay away.

As for public figures that have printed about it I don't know any except Robert Hunter. He injested a quarter gram and has written about it several times. Thats why I quoted him "I died a thousand deaths".
Most people that have had the experiance are on the rainbow trail or part of the extended family.


--------------------
Some rise
Some fall
Some climb
To get to Terrapin!!!

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InvisibleWorld Spirit
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Re: The [Re: PDU]
    #1732883 - 07/20/03 04:57 PM (21 years, 4 days ago)

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Invisiblechinacat72
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Re: The [Re: World Spirit] * 2
    #1732916 - 07/20/03 05:12 PM (21 years, 4 days ago)

Quote:

Is there a risk for brain damage, stroke, heart attack, a chemical imbalance, mental instability,m etc? We don't know. We can't say. There's no research on this at all. It's scary. 




There isn't ever going to be any research on this. All we have is anceodotal evidence from those that have done it. For you this evidence won't be enough. For me it is. Why? Because I know hundreds if not over 1000 people that have done this. How many have had life altering effects that were harmful. None. My mind is bent but very well intact. I will be starting grad school soon. Most of the people I know who have printed lead very rich fufilling lives and are some of the most observant and kind people on earth. Many of these people have exelled greatly in the acedemic world.

As for research on thumbprints there isn't going to ever be any. I don't want there to be. It's a family thing.
We walk on faith alone.  :heart:


--------------------
Some rise
Some fall
Some climb
To get to Terrapin!!!

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