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Offlinehongomon
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Registered: 04/14/02
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Call for justice
    #1392395 - 03/19/03 06:07 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Okay, so here we are at war. Thousands of people are going to die, economies will suffer, and MAYBE the world will be safer with Sadam no longer in possession of chemical and biological weapons.

It is well known where those weapons came from. In light of that fact, it seems reasonable to me that certain individuals should be brought to justice. Think about it--public servants provided chemical and biological weapons by the tons to a man of highly questionable integrity--a military dictator whose human rights abuses so well-known now couldn't possibly have been a secret then .

And now, here we are, twenty or so years later, waging a war in order to rid him of those same weapons. What is it--

dereliction of duty?
reckless endangerment?
first-degree felony fuck-up?

I'm going to send this proposal to Washington D.C. I bet they'll go for it.

edit: personally I still believe that oil--oil access for an oil-dependent nation and oil control for a hegemon in an oil-dependent world--is the real motivating factor. This post is based on the "official" rationale for the war.


Edited by hongomon (03/19/03 06:41 PM)


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Offlineupupup
guardian

Registered: 08/25/01
Posts: 889
Loc: George "I love Hitler" Bu...
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Re: Call for justice [Re: hongomon]
    #1392617 - 03/19/03 07:13 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Well put.....now expect the flames because there is not much substance in anything they will say.....they have to just get personal......


--------------------
Support bacteria - they're the only culture some people have.


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Invisiblez@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: Call for justice [Re: hongomon]
    #1392625 - 03/19/03 07:16 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

The problem isn't that he had the weapons. The problem is that he still has the same type of weapons even after he agreed to get rid of them. Playing the blame game at this point does no good because we can't change the past. We also cannot prosecute for doing something that was not illegial at the time.
And no I will not flame you personally.


--------------------
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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Invisiblecarbonhoots
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Registered: 09/11/01
Posts: 1,351
Loc: BC Canada
Re: Call for justice [Re: hongomon]
    #1392657 - 03/19/03 07:23 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Call for justice all you want. I have quit such things as I now see it to be foolish. How does justice score when stacked up against might?

No. Might makes right for now...we'll save justice for the afterlife.







--------------------
  -I'd rather have a frontal lobotomy than a bottle in front of me

CANADIAN CENTER FOR POLICY ALTERNATIVES


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Call for justice [Re: carbonhoots]
    #1392677 - 03/19/03 07:31 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Cuz y'know Only Americans know how to make chemical weapons. Iraq has never manufactures their own ever.

Nope, uh-uh, never.



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Anonymous

Re: Call for justice [Re: hongomon]
    #1392720 - 03/19/03 07:43 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

We had higher priorities in the days when we supplied Saddam, like fighting communism.


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OfflineMurex
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Registered: 07/28/02
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Re: Call for justice [Re: hongomon]
    #1392741 - 03/19/03 07:49 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Thousands of people are going to die,

What? How do you figure thousands?  :confused:

Let me tell you somethings I don't know if you know- 1. Amerika has precise weapons that can be very accurate. 2. Ground troops are not going to just invade without the majority of danger removed. 3. We bomb military targets as well as communication targets, NOT civillian houses!

Amerika is the most powerful and precise army in the whole fucking world. This war will be over soon, Iraq has NO chance of winning whatsoever, and modern war is nothing like wars in the past that had heavy casualties due to technology!



--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



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Offlineupupup
guardian

Registered: 08/25/01
Posts: 889
Loc: George "I love Hitler" Bu...
Last seen: 13 years, 4 months
Re: Call for justice [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1392815 - 03/19/03 08:13 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

All will be told when they send in the foot soldiers.....or will it?

I have been contemplating that....

What happens if Saddam really dosen't have bio/chem stuff?

would the US justify thier position by falsifying such by gassing thier own?????


--------------------
Support bacteria - they're the only culture some people have.


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OfflineMurex
Reality Hacker

Registered: 07/28/02
Posts: 3,599
Loc: Traped in a shell.
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Re: Call for justice [Re: upupup]
    #1392960 - 03/19/03 08:59 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Gas would dissapate in the sandstorms if they were to use them on the battlefield. They would be useless as of now.


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



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Offlinehongomon
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Registered: 04/14/02
Posts: 910
Loc: comin' at ya
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Re: Call for justice [Re: z@z.com]
    #1393083 - 03/19/03 09:44 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Playing the blame game at this point does no good because we can't change the past.

I don't agree. I'd say that while we can't change the past, "playing the blame game" helps improve the present/future. That's a big part of the justice system.

In this case, certain public servants provided a despot with tons of chemical weapons. A major push of the Bush administration has been how great a threat these same weapons pose to the very people who put their trust on those public servants.

Is it some new idea that a weapon can point both ways? No. Those public servants foolishly presumed these never would.

Is it a recent revelation that Hussein is the character that he is? No. Those public servants foolishly presumed he would always be on "our" side.

Now, because of that foolishness, we're at war. And you don't think someone should have to answer for that?


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Offlinehongomon
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Registered: 04/14/02
Posts: 910
Loc: comin' at ya
Last seen: 13 years, 3 months
Re: Call for justice [Re: Murex]
    #1393089 - 03/19/03 09:46 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Thousands of people are going to die,

What? How do you figure thousands?  :confused:

Let me tell you somethings I don't know if you know- 1. Amerika has precise weapons that can be very accurate. 2. Ground troops are not going to just invade without the majority of danger removed. 3. We bomb military targets as well as communication targets, NOT civillian houses!

Amerika is the most powerful and precise army in the whole fucking world. This war will be over soon, Iraq has NO chance of winning whatsoever, and modern war is nothing like wars in the past that had heavy casualties due to technology!





Murex, your tone is ironic, no?  (Sorry, I really can't tell.) 


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Offlinehongomon
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Re: Call for justice [Re: Anonymous]
    #1393101 - 03/19/03 09:49 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

We had higher priorities in the days when we supplied Saddam, like fighting communism.




That we had other priorities than a prudent foreign policy, I don't doubt. But "higher"? Hah. Turn on the news.


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OfflineMurex
Reality Hacker

Registered: 07/28/02
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Re: Call for justice [Re: hongomon]
    #1393102 - 03/19/03 09:49 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Murex, your tone is ironic, no? (Sorry, I really can't tell.)

Are you just covering your ears to what I'm saying?


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



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Offlinehongomon
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Registered: 04/14/02
Posts: 910
Loc: comin' at ya
Last seen: 13 years, 3 months
Re: Call for justice [Re: Murex]
    #1393271 - 03/19/03 10:42 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Actually no. You don't think thousands of people are going to die in this war? Your arguments suggest you don't consider Iraqis--including those in the military--people.

Plus, the way you spelled America "Amerika"--like I said, I really can't tell.


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Offlinezeronio
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Male

Registered: 10/16/01
Posts: 2,349
Loc: Slovenia
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Re: Call for justice [Re: Murex]
    #1393448 - 03/20/03 12:09 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

1. Amerika has precise weapons that can be very accurate.



So I heard. However 100000 Iraquis were killed in the first gulf war and in Yugoslavia Nato bombings killed 3 times more people then were killed by the original conflict.

Quote:

2. Ground troops are not going to just invade without the majority of danger removed.



So, if the popluation turns against the invadors, they will be removed.

Quote:

3. We bomb military targets as well as communication targets, NOT civillian houses!



This point is in clear conflict with point 2.
In theory yes. But in practice if one side starts loosing, then the civilans are targeted. It happened for example in Korea, Vietnam, Soviet invasion of Afghanistan & Yugoslavia.


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Anonymous

Re: Call for justice [Re: zeronio]
    #1393462 - 03/20/03 12:25 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

>>This point is in clear conflict with point 2.
In theory yes. But in practice if one side starts loosing, then the civilans are targeted. It happened for example in Korea, Vietnam, Soviet invasion of Afghanistan & Yugoslavia.


The US is not going to "start losing".


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Offlinezeronio
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Registered: 10/16/01
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Re: Call for justice [Re: TackleBerry]
    #1393476 - 03/20/03 12:37 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Well I hope not, but I'm not so sure. I listed some examples above, when superpowers invaded small countries and things didn't go like expected.


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